Dragoons

?_?

im confused.... drg have them vits them hps and them armors with goo def. if they cant take a few hits until provoke timer is off again for the pally... then it would be a <no thanks> but... whats an average fight time for an IT++ mob for you? 2 minutes? 3 minutes? if its anywhere past 3 minutes he can SATA super jump every other fight. which means... he will take a few hits every other fight... but thats pretty much what SATA partners DO. would you rather have a dark knight thats already charging enough hate to add ALOT more with no way. abosulutly NO WAY to ditch hate (except killing monster.. that dosnt count :P )

sorry keits.. but sometimes you make very informed posts with logic and information backing it up. but i just don't get this one.
 
Underrated in the sense that they're very versatile as far as damage dealers go. One I party with often lets the party decide whether to go with War sub, Thf sub, or Sam sub based on the party setup, and all have their benefits. They have excellent damage over time, useful weapon skills, can take a hit if necessary, and build TP relatively quickly. They're pretty widely viewed as average as far as usefulness goes (hence the joke.. like I said I laughed) but they're underrated in the sense that they aren't a last resort job: as with most jobs the person playing it can make or break their usefulness in a party.
 
*hugs jazpers and cries as not many understand about us DRGs*

Drgs have shitty defense as everyone knows. And yes Super Jumps resets every 5 min. But don't expect use to use Super Jump when SATA fails. Super Jump is normal used when tankers can't get the hate after the heavy dmg caused by SC *WS + SATA*

DRG are best PT-ed with THF or jobs that uses THF as SJ. No SATA No DRG. It is really sad when this lovely job is underrated.
 
java said:
?_?

im confused.... drg have them vits them hps and them armors with goo def. if they cant take a few hits until provoke timer is off again for the pally... then it would be a <no thanks> but... whats an average fight time for an IT++ mob for you? 2 minutes? 3 minutes? if its anywhere past 3 minutes he can SATA super jump every other fight. which means... he will take a few hits every other fight... but thats pretty much what SATA partners DO. would you rather have a dark knight thats already charging enough hate to add ALOT more with no way. abosulutly NO WAY to ditch hate (except killing monster.. that dosnt count :P )

sorry keits.. but sometimes you make very informed posts with logic and information backing it up. but i just don't get this one.
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This post is very uninformed, IMHO. DRG has okay HP, but they do not have high VIT. They cannot wear anything better than scale (RDM can wear this too..). The SA and TA timer is 1 minute. This can be performed 5 times before the DRG is truely prepared to shed the hate again. So, by having a DRG and a THF, you are asking the THF to ingore that his SATA are up 2-3 times per fight, and wait on the DRG? Or are you saying that the DRG takes hits well enough?

They dont.

There are 5 suitable tanks/backups in the game... and it has a lot to do with combat abilities/skills (much moreso than basic stats). PLD, NIN, WAR, SAM, MNK. DRG is not a suitable backup tank, and they only reason they Trick-Tank well is because they can "shed hate". But the timer on the main hate-sheder is far to long.

You would probably never have a PLD or NIN in your group as a trick tank, so ill skip those.

WAR, obviously, has average proficiencies (C) in evasion, and I believe C in Parry and Shield too. The best thing about WAR is that it can sub /NIN, to dodge 3 hits (6 if utsusemi is ready to cast again) before ever taking damage. If they do wear before the main tank gets hate back, he can use Defender. They may also wear Plate armor, the heaviest class of armor in the game.

SAM can wear Chain armor, the 2nd heaviest class of armor in the game. They have pretty average stats, but a B+ in evasion, and an A+ in parry. They also have Third Eye to evade one free attack, and at later levels Defender and Tonosama Rice + AF Gloves for added DEF.

MNK cant wear anything heavy, but they have the highest natural VIT in the game. Couple this with a B+ in evasion, A+ in guard, A+ in counter, and a Dodge Ability, and MNK makes a wonderful temporary tank too.

The above three jobs can Trick Tank anytime the THF is ready to drop SATA. DRG cannot. Thus, DRG limits the party. And I wont even discuss the extra mana use/downtime that a Wyvern inflicts on the party. Its just stupid.

I dont hate the idea of DRG. In fact, I origionally intended to be one. But do your research before you call me 'uninformed'. There is not a single thing a DRG can do that another job cant do better. Playing DRG, as it stands today in FFXI, is like playing a NIN damage dealer. They dont get parties because smart party leaders think of them as a last resort.

Oh... and PS~ Polearm sucks ass for renkai. :)
 
Keits said:
java said:
?_?

im confused.... drg have them vits them hps and them armors with goo def. if they cant take a few hits until provoke timer is off again for the pally... then it would be a <no thanks> but... whats an average fight time for an IT++ mob for you? 2 minutes? 3 minutes? if its anywhere past 3 minutes he can SATA super jump every other fight. which means... he will take a few hits every other fight... but thats pretty much what SATA partners DO. would you rather have a dark knight thats already charging enough hate to add ALOT more with no way. abosulutly NO WAY to ditch hate (except killing monster.. that dosnt count :P )

sorry keits.. but sometimes you make very informed posts with logic and information backing it up. but i just don't get this one.
Click to expand...

This post is very uninformed, IMHO. DRG has okay HP, but they do not have high VIT. They cannot wear anything better than scale (RDM can wear this too..). The SA and TA timer is 1 minute. This can be performed 5 times before the DRG is truely prepared to shed the hate again. So, by having a DRG and a THF, you are asking the THF to ingore that his SATA are up 2-3 times per fight, and wait on the DRG? Or are you saying that the DRG takes hits well enough?

They dont.

There are 5 suitable tanks/backups in the game... and it has a lot to do with combat abilities/skills (much moreso than basic stats). PLD, NIN, WAR, SAM, MNK. DRG is not a suitable backup tank, and they only reason they Trick-Tank well is because they can "shed hate". But the timer on the main hate-sheder is far to long.

You would probably never have a PLD or NIN in your group as a trick tank, so ill skip those.

WAR, obviously, has average proficiencies (C) in evasion, and I believe C in Parry and Shield too. The best thing about WAR is that it can sub /NIN, to dodge 3 hits (6 if utsusemi is ready to cast again) before ever taking damage. If they do wear before the main tank gets hate back, he can use Defender. They may also wear Plate armor, the heaviest class of armor in the game.

SAM can wear Chain armor, the 2nd heaviest class of armor in the game. They have pretty average stats, but a B+ in evasion, and an A+ in parry. They also have Third Eye to evade one free attack, and at later levels Defender and Tonosama Rice + AF Gloves for added DEF.

MNK cant wear anything heavy, but they have the highest natural VIT in the game. Couple this with a B+ in evasion, A+ in guard, A+ in counter, and a Dodge Ability, and MNK makes a wonderful temporary tank too.

The above three jobs can Trick Tank anytime the THF is ready to drop SATA. DRG cannot. Thus, DRG limits the party. And I wont even discuss the extra mana use/downtime that a Wyvern inflicts on the party. Its just stupid.

I dont hate the idea of DRG. In fact, I origionally intended to be one. But do your research before you call me 'uninformed'. There is not a single thing a DRG can do that another job cant do better. Playing DRG, as it stands today in FFXI, is like playing a NIN damage dealer. They dont get parties because smart party leaders think of them as a last resort.

Oh... and PS~ Polearm sucks ass for renkai. :)
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\

see now thats informed and detailed, i dont consider 3 short lines of type that has the 3rd one as "DRG <no thanks>" informed, thank you for filling me in with other job combos, and i did not call you uninformed i called your post
 
My first post wasnt 'uninformed', it was mearly a quip. A one liner. (or 3 liner).

I dont know everything about FFXI, but I do know the combat engine very very well. DRG needs SE's attention. There are dozens of posts from high level DRGs on other forums that explain exacly why DRG just doesnt cut it.

All jobs are not created equal, unfortunatly.
 
lol that's funny. and yet, so very very true... :D

Keits said:
Yeah, underrated is why no one invites them. Their potential is just so hidden from the public eye... :roll:

Hey kids! That was sarcasm!
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It's just that most people don't know the dragoon's role in a party besides dealing damage. Hate control is where dragoons really accelerate. For example

Dragoon uses a weapon skill but doesn't build up enough hate to turn the mob.
THF Sneak Attack/Trick Attack + Weapon skill, THF trick attacking off of the dragoon.
Dragoon uses Super Jump, hate goes right back to the pld to continue keeping hate for the rest of the battle.

But most people will argue with this because they think they're right. To find out the truth, why not unlock yourselves, you crazies? :D
 
dragoonnerzul said:
lol that's funny. and yet, so very very true... :D

Keits said:
Yeah, underrated is why no one invites them. Their potential is just so hidden from the public eye... :roll:

Hey kids! That was sarcasm!
Click to expand...

It's just that most people don't know the dragoon's role in a party besides dealing damage. Hate control is where dragoons really accelerate. For example

Dragoon uses a weapon skill but doesn't build up enough hate to turn the mob.
THF Sneak Attack/Trick Attack + Weapon skill, THF trick attacking off of the dragoon.
Dragoon uses Super Jump, hate goes right back to the pld to continue keeping hate for the rest of the battle.

But most people will argue with this because they think they're right. To find out the truth, why not unlock yourselves, you crazies? :D
Click to expand...

Shedding Hate is not the same as Hate Control. DRG can only do this effectively once every 5 minutes. You skipped over most of the post.

DRG does not shine in any area late game (they deal absurd damage in early levels, though). Its true. Do your reading, and hope, like I do, that SE fixes it soon.
 
Sorry Java... >_<;; *hugs*

Keits are you a dragoon? If not please settle down as you have yet to experience this job. Yes, DRG has shitty VIT >>> Less Defense. I do agree. Monster can tear us apart with less attacks compare to other jobs. However, I think experience speaks louder in this very situation.

I do agree that Super Jump resets every 5 min and SATA 1min
As a trick buddy, how many times will the mob be actually facing to us during battles? Rare!!! When that time comes, it is either the monster is apparently going to die OR SATA + WC is too strong causing more hate. ONLY THEN! We use Super Jump when the monster have rather high HP left. As a DRG, i think we assist the party in hate control by shedding hate and also SC, Our WS may be weaker that other job but than again we can perform Light and Darkness Chain like all normal weapons.

I feel people should respect this job. We DRGs are NOT purple clowns jumping here and there to make little damage. We have a certain role in the PT like all jobs. As a DMG DEALER, we may be rather weak however we are unique in regards of disposing hate. Keits, you continue doing your part of the job and let us DRG play our role. If this job is soo lousy, what's the point of creating it? There must be some purpose so please keep that in mind.
 
Kirayamato said:
Sorry Java... >_<;; *hugs*

Keits are you a dragoon? If not please settle down as you have yet to experience this job. Yes, DRG has shitty VIT >>> Less Defense. I do agree. Monster can tear us apart with less attacks compare to other jobs. However, I think experience speaks louder in this very situation.

I do agree that Super Jump resets every 5 min and SATA 1min
As a trick buddy, how many times will the mob be actually facing to us during battles? Rare!!! When that time comes, it is either the monster is apparently going to die OR SATA + WC is too strong causing more hate. ONLY THEN! We use Super Jump when the monster have rather high HP left. As a DRG, i think we assist the party in hate control by shedding hate and also SC, Our WS may be weaker that other job but than again we can perform Light and Darkness Chain like all normal weapons.

I feel people should respect this job. We DRGs are NOT purple clowns jumping here and there to make little damage. We have a certain role in the PT like all jobs. As a DMG DEALER, we may be rather weak however we are unique in regards of disposing hate. Keits, you continue doing your part of the job and let us DRG play our role. If this job is soo lousy, what's the point of creating it? There must be some purpose so please keep that in mind.
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I had a drg once in a party, for sata buddy. When I'd pull with my ranger he'd provoke...get the shit kicked out of him, make the whm waste tons of mp, and then it'd be off him. Never, ever, once, did he draw aggro from the "massive damage" he was doing. I did though, a couple times, as my ranger. DRG is a last resort damage dealer, in my opinion. They can't participate in many sc because of limited ws, and penta is teh suck, now that they can't spam it over and over again. Per haps this changes at later levels, but I can't be certain. PLUS, when our static party didn't have enough members we invited a drg once. That wasa a waste of time. MY favorite when they are taking damage and so is their wyvern is when they use spirit link, heal that shitty damage wyvern for 300 dmg so you take 300 and make me have to heal your gimpy damage dealing ass >< So, my 2 cents on this issue is that DRG = L A S T R E S O R T Now please, take this at FACE VALUE. It is my opinion, it is not god, and try not to flame me. Because every post I make, seems to end up in a flame of some sort.
 
Well, in my opinion, it is certainly stupid of you or your leader to invite a DRG to your party when there is a ranger. Moreover, if that DRG is taking so much dmg it is either he is equiped with lousy equipments where DEF is less *since drg defense is already low* or he is equiped with equipment that decreases his evasion or your member that doing SATA stinks as he can't SATA in the beginning of the battle.

Naffenu wrote:
MY favorite when they are taking damage and so is their wyvern is when they use spirit link, heal that shitty damage wyvern for 300 dmg so you take 300 and make me have to heal your gimpy damage dealing ass ><
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In regards of Spirit Link, I always acknowledge the healers before i use Spirit Link, I use spirit Link when they wyvern is close to death AND my hp is on the safe side. So far, my healers do not complain as I properly manage myself with all these abilities. For your case, I am not sure how did or when he use this ability. If he constantly uses Spirit Link to heal his wyvern or when the PT is having trouble keeping up with the monster, well he is a stupid DRG.
 
Kirayamato said:
Well, in my opinion, it is certainly stupid of you or your leader to invite a DRG to your party when there is a ranger. Moreover, if that DRG is taking so much dmg it is either he is equiped with lousy equipments where DEF is less *since drg defense is already low* or he is equiped with equipment that decreases his evasion or your member that doing SATA stinks as he can't SATA in the beginning of the battle.

Naffenu wrote:
MY favorite when they are taking damage and so is their wyvern is when they use spirit link, heal that shitty damage wyvern for 300 dmg so you take 300 and make me have to heal your gimpy damage dealing ass ><
Click to expand...

In regards of Spirit Link, I always acknowledge the healers before i use Spirit Link, I use spirit Link when they wyvern is close to death AND my hp is on the safe side. So far, my healers do not complain as I properly manage myself with all these abilities. For your case, I am not sure how did or when he use this ability. If he constantly uses Spirit Link to heal his wyvern or when the PT is having trouble keeping up with the monster, well he is a stupid DRG.
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Nope, I'm pretty sure his armor was adequate if not above average for his level. They don't make good sata partners, that's all.
 
Keits said:
Shedding Hate is not the same as Hate Control. DRG can only do this effectively once every 5 minutes.
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Well, I agree with you there. It's not the same but I don't think you're right about the time frame here. What thf actually uses SATA everytime it's ready? None of them do because they would get a lot of hate. Hence, one a battle for SC and by the time you get the next mob, Super Jump is ready. Yes, it's shedding hate and in a way, hate control.

Keits said:
DRG does not shine in any area late game (they deal absurd damage in early levels, though). Its true. Do your reading, and hope, like I do, that SE fixes it soon.
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I do. Everyday :cry:
 
What thf actually uses SATA everytime it's ready? None of them do because they would get a lot of hate
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Hmm, I guess you forgot that the Trick Attack part of SATA dumps all the hate onto someone else. Thus, no matter how often a THF used it, he would never get any hate at all...

Keits are you a dragoon? If not please settle down as you have yet to experience this job
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People say this exact thing all the time. I have to read it every time I tell someone something that they dont like about their job. It also leads me to believe that you, yourself, believe that the only way to learn about the jobs in this game is to actually play it into the 60s. Do some research. Its not the only way to learn.

You guys can play it if you enjoy it. SE will eventually adress the problems that are keeping DRGs as the only job in the game with no 'best' use.

If you still cant 'handle the heat', becuase im telling you that DRG is the worst job in the game right now (the reason the joke in this post is funny...), then Ill dig up some links for you that detail why DRG isnt working.
 
Keits said:
What thf actually uses SATA everytime it's ready? None of them do because they would get a lot of hate
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Hmm, I guess you forgot that the Trick Attack part of SATA dumps all the hate onto someone else. Thus, no matter how often a THF used it, he would never get any hate at all...
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Seeing as my thf is only 17 and i havent had exp w/ TA would therefore the best way to use TA be by having a secondary tank then SATA behind the main tank which draws hate back to main tank since SA has to be behind the mob? Sorry thats a little off topic, i fyou dont want to respond here just send me a pm.
 
I heard that dragoon got nerfed by SE for some reason after original release.. any idea what ability they lost? or what nerfed them?
 
(Before I became a DRG)

I think that when DRG used Penta Thrust, they got like 60% TP back, and if they subbed SAM they could Use Meditate and reuse Penta rather quickly, and spam Penta Thrust each battle causing many points of damage. Then they reduced the total TP giveback to 17%, preventing this from happening. (I Think that is what happened)
 
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