Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Veovis

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Veovis
Anyone out there play? I run a game (just finished Keep on the Shadowfell and will be starting Thunderspire Labyrinth next week), and just played in the RPGA Living Forgotten Realms game; it was pretty fun.

Just curious as to what others might think of 4th editions rules by comparison to 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 3.5. I think they're pretty decent myself, though I will forever be a die-hard 2nd edition player. GO THAC0!
 
THAC0!

But in all seriousness, I'm all in favor of 4e so far. I'm a big fan of alot of the new rules, specifically the new way of running saves, action points, and that a fighter doesn't become a lootsack holder once you hit 11th level.

Also, the bannishment of the 5minute dungeon delve is the best idea ever. No more "Well, the wizard is out of spells, so we sleep."
 
I'll probably start back up on D&D when uni starts so I can get more acquainted with the new rules when I play with the guys at Uni.
 
I picked up my PH and read it a few times through, I really like the new rules. The organization of the core books is much better this time around and makes it really easy on the new player. I like the MMO-esque leveling system. I really hope this one gets turned into a successful game, but they released a really good online gaming table program so if I want to get a game together with my friends online it wouldn't be that hard.
 
They utterly destroyed my magic-users. If it was simply that they reorganized the power structure to conform to the other jobs, that'd be fine. I'm thrilled with how the other jobs were put together. But mages have seamed to become bland. No more ability to build mages of just about any concept. Even clerics were effectively scaled back imo. Admittedly I haven't finished reading through and I'd like to play test it... but I'm disappointed so far.
 
I need to buy 4th ed books. I have all the 3.5 books. I haven't even looked into 4th ed yet. I really should get on it. The last game I was in was a mixture of 3.0 and 3.5, but I'm contemplating running a 4.0 game.. I have been for awhile.

Are there any really big changes?
 
I need to buy 4th ed books. I have all the 3.5 books. I haven't even looked into 4th ed yet. I really should get on it. The last game I was in was a mixture of 3.0 and 3.5, but I'm contemplating running a 4.0 game.. I have been for awhile.

Are there any really big changes?

Quite a few..I think its drastically different from 3.0. I never played 3.5 though, and I didn't play much of 3.0 cuz...like Veo I like my THAC0, so I guess I'm not really one to compare the two.
 
3.5 really wasn't that different from 3.0. That's why they didn't do 4th ed right then. They didn't have THAT many changes to make..to justify a completely new edition I think. I haven't done much pre-3.0.. But I heard first ed and second ed were completely different games.. I'm actually getting really excited about 4th ed... HM.. I really need to go get the PHB and the DMG at least..
 
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3.5 really wasn't that different from 3.0. That's why they didn't do 4th ed right then. They didn't have THAT many changes to make..to justify a completely new edition I think. I haven't done much pre-3.0.. But I heard first ed and second ed were completely different games.. I'm actually getting really excited about 4th ed... HM.. I really need to go get the PHB and the DMG at least..


Well for starts, BAB per level is gone. Attacks are based off STR, INT, or DEX usually (Melee attacks STR, Magic Attacks INT, Ranged attacks DEX), so whatever your modifier is, thats your base attack bonus. Theres still skills and many of the feats are the same.

Secondly, every class has a set of "exploits" they get to use, these are At-Will powers (use per round as you see fit), Encounter Powers (once per fight), Daily Powers (once per "day", or until you take a full rest), and Utility Powers (usually triggered effects, often considered Interrupts). At first level you gain two at-wills (or 3 if youre a human), 1 encounter and 1 daily, and as you progress in levels you get more or can switch them out. A daily is basically your 2-hour. Does a large amount of damage but its use is limited to once per day. A save-your-ass move.

Third, you have Second Wind and the other things called Healing Surges. Every class gets these. Using your second wind uses one surge, and you can only use that once per encounter; but many classes have abilities that make you spend a surge to gain hitpoints back. Your number of surges is determined by your class and your Constitution Modifier.

New also are "Senses" which are "Passive Insight" and "Passive Perception", both of which, as a house rule, I dont use. What it does is it takes your Insight or Perception score and has you "take 10" on it, so its your score +10, usually somewhere around 16-19 on a 1st level character. It basically means your character is "always aware" of his surroundings, which I think blows ass. When you got a heroic tier trap (DC 15-20) and the bastard has a 19 passive perception, he automatically knows that the floor is trapped. Lame. It was made to make the game go quicker, so you dont have to needlessly search the room or call out that youre making a perception check; its automatically assumed you would. To hell with that. RP mofo.

Then you have the Dragonborn, Tiefling, and Eladrin races. You might remember Tiefling and Eladrin from their earlier incarnations (tieflings have been around a long time, and Eladrin used to be in Planescapes only Warriors of Heaven in 2nd ed). Dragonborn are an entirely new race but nothing spectacular. They get a breath attack of an element you choose at character creation and can use it as an encounter power.

Armor Class, Will, Reflex and Fortitude are all now "Defenses" and no longer saves. Various attacks target the different defenses; saving throws have been made easier though. Roll a d20. Did you roll 10 or higher? You succeded! Did you roll 9 or lower? FAILURE.

I could go on and on for pages but its a lot of little things they changed. At the core, its still Dungeons and Dragons. Me myself and I happen to love 4th edition; and I LOVE the direction they took Forgotten Realms.
 
It's like a new pair of underwear. At first, it's constrictive. But after awhile it becomes a part of you.

waynes_world.jpg
 
I read through the 4th edition books and my entire group decided we would stick with 3.5. I thought 4th oversimplified alot of things, not to say some things didn't need simplified. anyway its our groups tradition to make utterly broken shit (half-dragon half-minotaur Barbarians, Vow of Poverty Monks) Usually our Dm ends up throwing us stuff that's 3 or 4 CR higher than we should be able to kill. hes also learned if he throws a fight that were supposed to lose to progress the story we will usually end up winning. I haven't found a way to use any other races than the ones in the PH in 4 yet, so yeah

4th ftl 3.5 ftw
 
They utterly destroyed my magic-users. If it was simply that they reorganized the power structure to conform to the other jobs, that'd be fine. I'm thrilled with how the other jobs were put together. But mages have seamed to become bland. No more ability to build mages of just about any concept. Even clerics were effectively scaled back imo. Admittedly I haven't finished reading through and I'd like to play test it... but I'm disappointed so far.

Yes and no. They broke magic users in the sense that they're no longer the prime source of doing anything after level 12, as was the 3rd edition way.

And the customization will come, but if you simply look at the core books from 3rd ed, there really wasn't that much variation on classes at the start either. 3rd ed just had a million books to draw from at the end of it, so of course there were more options.


Also, yes Clerics are alot different now. But they're no longer the only source of recovering lost HP so they needed to change.
 
Also on the topic of magic users; yea, the spell list looks a little bland, but its stated in the PHB on page 54 that you can change the way the spell looks or acts; its damage and range are static, but as in the example they give, just to spice it up a little. They also included Rituals, which at first I didnt like, but now that I understand them its a lot better.

Basically in the older editions, you had a vast library of spells to choose from, many of which were useless in battle. I'm not going to cast Illusionary Script against the Bugbear with the warclub. Rituals clean up all those non-damaging spells and lump them together in a seperate spell list. Plus, anyone with the 'Ritual Caster' feat can cast them, or at least some of them.

Clerics can still play mainhealer. In Keep on the Shadowfell, one of my players ran a Cleric of Bahamut, and he saved the party nearly every major encounter. The one time he didnt show up, they got mauled during the fight lol. But they made clerics a lot more versatile as well; removing the limitation of only blunt weapons. Your cleric can run around with a greatsword if he's got the feat and money for it.

As for other races; if you read the MM, page 276, it gives the stat, and skill modifiers and racial abilities for the following races (to be used as PC's or NPC's) :
Bugbear
Doppleganger
Drow
Githyanki
Githzerai
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Hobgoblin
Kobold
Minotaur
Orc
Shadar-Kai
Longtooth Shifter
Razorclaw Shifter
Warforged

Other classes will be made available when the Forgotten Realms Players Guide comes out this month (I believe it is Swordmage and Artificer, but i'm not 100%), and more when the Players Handbook II comes out by the years end; with Monk and Druid and several others included.
 
And the customization will come, but if you simply look at the core books from 3rd ed, there really wasn't that much variation on classes at the start either. 3rd ed just had a million books to draw from at the end of it, so of course there were more options.

actually most of the broken shit we made we only used the 3.5 DMG, PH and MM. When we actually used other books and custom classes some of the stuff we thought up was just plain wrong. we would normally have to revise a character 2 or 3 times before the DM finally let us play it.

I'll have to find and scan the character sheet for my utter broken Dragoon >_>
 
Also on the topic of magic users; yea, the spell list looks a little bland, but its stated in the PHB on page 54 that you can change the way the spell looks or acts; its damage and range are static, but as in the example they give, just to spice it up a little. They also included Rituals, which at first I didnt like, but now that I understand them its a lot better.

Basically in the older editions, you had a vast library of spells to choose from, many of which were useless in battle. I'm not going to cast Illusionary Script against the Bugbear with the warclub. Rituals clean up all those non-damaging spells and lump them together in a seperate spell list. Plus, anyone with the 'Ritual Caster' feat can cast them, or at least some of them.

Clerics can still play mainhealer. In Keep on the Shadowfell, one of my players ran a Cleric of Bahamut, and he saved the party nearly every major encounter. The one time he didnt show up, they got mauled during the fight lol. But they made clerics a lot more versatile as well; removing the limitation of only blunt weapons. Your cleric can run around with a greatsword if he's got the feat and money for it.

As for other races; if you read the MM, page 276, it gives the stat, and skill modifiers and racial abilities for the following races (to be used as PC's or NPC's) :
Bugbear
Doppleganger
Drow
Githyanki
Githzerai
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Hobgoblin
Kobold
Minotaur
Orc
Shadar-Kai
Longtooth Shifter
Razorclaw Shifter
Warforged

Other classes will be made available when the Forgotten Realms Players Guide comes out this month (I believe it is Swordmage and Artificer, but i'm not 100%), and more when the Players Handbook II comes out by the years end; with Monk and Druid and several others included.

Artificer's in the Eberron book out next year, Swordmage is in the FR book, along with in-depth rules for Drow and Genasi.

The Orc and Warforged rules came out on the website, along with play-beta rules for Artificer.
 
I just learned how to moderately understand 3.5 and I had 4E thrown at me so I'm not a huge fan of it since I don't fully understand it. I might like it more once they do a Dark Sun 4E campaign setting since I love the whole Dark sun story and I want that to be the only campaign that I run.
 
I just learned how to moderately understand 3.5 and I had 4E thrown at me so I'm not a huge fan of it since I don't fully understand it. I might like it more once they do a Dark Sun 4E campaign setting since I love the whole Dark sun story and I want that to be the only campaign that I run.

I'm pretty excited about your dark sun campaign, and I have a feeling my character will wear it like a condom.
 
I just learned how to moderately understand 3.5 and I had 4E thrown at me so I'm not a huge fan of it since I don't fully understand it. I might like it more once they do a Dark Sun 4E campaign setting since I love the whole Dark sun story and I want that to be the only campaign that I run.

Theres been a lot of debate about a new Dark Sun guide for 4th. The Creators want to do it but Wizards doesnt think it'll have a large enough fan base to make a profit, and you know Wizards -_-

I love Dark Sun, it was an insane setting. Magic is crazy, metal is rare, and people are Savage. I had a half-giant slave dude lol. And a human Defiler!

---EDIT---

Some of my dark sun stuff lol

0908081647.jpg
 
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Artificer's in the Eberron book out next year, Swordmage is in the FR book, along with in-depth rules for Drow and Genasi.

The Orc and Warforged rules came out on the website, along with play-beta rules for Artificer.

Man when I played with the RPGA in Living Realms last week, this dude had a Swordmage Water Genasi.

Holy fucking shit is that class broken! lol. Nah maybe not broken. But real powerful.
 
Theres been a lot of debate about a new Dark Sun guide for 4th. The Creators want to do it but Wizards doesnt think it'll have a large enough fan base to make a profit, and you know Wizards -_-

I love Dark Sun, it was an insane setting. Magic is crazy, metal is rare, and people are Savage. I had a half-giant slave dude lol. And a human Defiler!

---EDIT---

Some of my dark sun stuff lol

0908081647.jpg

I just finished reading the whole Dregoth story(Where he tries his epic lvl spell there) and I just can't wait to host it. I would love for it to come to 4E so then I could care to learn the new rules. lol
 
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