Dynamis and Limbus Get a Makeover! (04/08/2008)

Xalioniaf said:
Why would you want to brag that you spend over a year of your life doing the same event twice a week...?
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I dunno, but theres stupid people everywhere, never know whos gonna brag about what.
 
Its human nature to brag about 'extra' things obtained in life, makes them feel better since the shit isn't needed like a big time fag lawyer in their Porsche calling all the Mustang drivers gimp. Same crap relates in game but as silly as this behaviour is in reality, it is absolutely pathetic to brag about video game things.

Lavi said:
Do you complain in sports when someone has an advantage over you based on money or time? If someone practices more than you and becomes better than you, do you suggest that's unfair? If a co-worker puts more time into the job and gets a better raise, do you think that's unfair? Or if they got a promotion and you didn't, is that suddenly unfair? Those who put more time into something deserve more out of it, that's plain and simple fact of life.
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And as much as I love to 'stalk your posts' the examples you give relate to a person's career or other training. You know, things that shouldn't be handed to them and are actually important / productive aspects in a life worthy of scheduling time for. Tok is speaking about spending time gaining items in a video game, items that do not exist.... FFXI is a video game remember, he shouldn't be expected to overly sacrifice in order to 'deserve' items as much as anyone else.

I don't like how this game makes a person spend a lot of time to gain high end items. People can quickly confuse fun with clouded objectives making them spend hours on a false goal. In the end you finish with many real life goals being neglected. Don't get me wrong, i understand that this is what makes a game fun, but there becomes a point where the amount of time spent becomes just plain stupid.
 
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Carste said:
Here's how m$ weighs the two accomplishments:
Relic = 40 pts,
CoP = 40 pts,
Therefore, Relic = CoP.
And everyone knows what microsoft has to say is law.
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Uh, Microsoft doesn't set how many gamerscore points an achievement is worth, only the total amount a game can give. It's up to the developer to divide up that 250 or 1000 and distribute it as they see fit. Square-Enix says a Relic weapon and Chains of Promathia completion are worth the same.
 
Morari said:
Eh, no, I'm not. I'm just over-simplifying the concept of "accomplishment pleasure." There's the pleasure you can get from the satisfaction of a need - hunger, thirst, using the restroom, etc. There's also the pleasure you can get from the satisfaction of a want - a new luxury car, a vacation, a relic weapon, etc.

Yes, the journey does give good experiences, memories and probably even companionship. But the journey doesn't preclude the destination. IF the destination didn't have importance then we'd all just be wandering transients with no where to go.
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I would have to agree with you about the destination being important; I'm only pointing out that the people who have had to work harder for things seem to appriciate it more.
 
Nyett said:
Its human nature to brag about 'extra' things obtained in life, makes them feel better since the shit isn't needed like a big time fag lawyer in their Porsche calling all the Mustang drivers gimp. Same crap relates in game but as silly as this behaviour is in reality, it is absolutely pathetic to brag about video game things.



And as much as I love to 'stalk your posts' the examples you give relate to a person's career or other training. You know, things that shouldn't be handed to them and are actually important / productive aspects in a life worthy of scheduling time for. Tok is speaking about spending time gaining items in a video game, items that do not exist.... FFXI is a video game remember, he shouldn't be expected to overly sacrifice in order to 'deserve' items as much as anyone else.

I don't like how this game makes a person spend a lot of time to gain high end items. People can quickly confuse fun with clouded objectives making them spend hours on a false goal. In the end you finish with many real life goals being neglected. Don't get me wrong, i understand that this is what makes a game fun, but there becomes a point where the amount of time spent becomes just plain stupid.
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Simply put, if you think the game isn't important, why play? If obtaining the desired gear isn't productive, then why play?
 
Lavi said:
Simply put, if you think the game isn't important, why play? If obtaining the desired gear isn't productive, then why play?
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It passes the time between personal events. And if I get gear while passing the time, well hey, cool.
 
I play because I like the game. But no, it isn't important; or at the very least, isn't any more important than any other form of recreation. And what Xali said.
 
Everyone plays for diff reasons and has different ideas of whats "fun" in this game >_>
 
Lavi said:
Simply put, if you think the game isn't important, why play? If obtaining the desired gear isn't productive, then why play?
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You play for fun and this game is great fun but it isn't important. Its like a carnival, playing games and winning prizes is a good time and can be considered productive for the pleasure it gives but most people wait until they have free time to go. Others (like me) get enjoyment from being bad and skipping work for a day to have such fun, its natural.

When you begin missing work a little too often for the carnival , something is wrong. The urge to walk around the area becomes unbearable, even when you just stand there... you need more. Its on your mind constantly. Next thing you know its multiple times a week every week but then that doesn't become enough.

Soon your skipping other hobbies, forgetting about other things you used to enjoy. You wake up earlier than you should, go alone, start becoming late for work and overly tired. It loses its fun and becomes a need, a habit but god knows how important it is to be the big winner, to put your time in for those extra special stuffed animals. Everyone there must know just how good of a carnival player you are. Really, most don't care cause they enjoy the carnival for the games not the prizes, for themselves not for you. Stuffed animal pride is in the mind.

This game is no different. It gives you the carnival cheap, easily and with animosity. Everything an addict could hope for.

Neisan said:
But no, it isn't important; or at the very least, isn't any more important than any other form of recreation.
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Like the man said.
 
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First off that's an addiction. That's not what I am talking about and if you're playing the game far too much while ignoring the important things in life, then you personally should get that straightened out. However, that's really not what I am getting at. You're comparing the game to a carnival, but at a carnival you can go home without winning a single thing from any of the booths (they're all scams anyways) and not feel like you're owed anything.
 
I think either way this debate goes: People are excited about this update.
 
This game is great fun, and as it was said before, people enjoy it for different reasons. I personally enjoy the contact i have with friends in this game. Ive made some new friends that are great and keep me coming back to this game as well. Sure and achievement here, a sweet piece of armor there, and some cash over there add some spice to the experience, but the overall interaction is what keeps me coming back for more.
 
Dynamis will cost 500k and drop rate will increase does that mean we'll see more
Dynamis LS? I've also heard alot of people planing on low-man dynamis already does this mean we'll see schedule conflicts?
 
Lavi said:
First off that's an addiction. That's not what I am talking about and if you're playing the game far too much while ignoring the important things in life, then you personally should get that straightened out. However, that's really not what I am getting at. You're comparing the game to a carnival, but at a carnival you can go home without winning a single thing from any of the booths (they're all scams anyways) and not feel like you're owed anything.
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If you can't log on to the game, have some fun, and then log off a few hours later without "winning a single thing, and not feel like you're owed anything" as well, then you are addicted...
 
Lavi said:
at a carnival you can go home without winning a single thing from any of the booths (they're all scams anyways) and not feel like you're owed anything.
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It is possible to play this game for fun only. Sure it's nice to be appreciated, to be given some items for helping but to have this view of being 'owed'... sounds like a second job to me and sounds a little, umm, demanding/expecting. Plus after spending $100 on games at a carnival a certain type of person will feel like they are owed. This was exacty my point Lavi, the difference is within the person and why they are playing the game, fun or prize.

And my little carnival analogy shows how easily a person can lose control once they start sacrificing time other than 'free time', as Tok was getting at, and which you replied to. Its a vicious cycle where people still play because they invested so much time, which ironically makes them keep playing, spending even more time cause they don't want to waste the time they have already wasted.

This is the problem with 'who play more deserves more' attitude cause it feeds the above cycle and is only based on bulk time played. The sacrifice of a person's time is subjective, two hours on a game for one person doesn't always equal two hours to another since we all have different things going on in our different phazes of life.
 
Lavi said:
You do realize that sums up about all events in this game?
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Lol, QFT. I've been in both Limbus and Salvage for a little over a year now (though I've taken breaks from Limbus).

Nyett said:
Its human nature to brag about 'extra' things obtained in life, makes them feel better since the shit isn't needed like a big time fag lawyer in their Porsche calling all the Mustang drivers gimp. Same crap relates in game but as silly as this behaviour is in reality, it is absolutely pathetic to brag about video game things.



And as much as I love to 'stalk your posts' the examples you give relate to a person's career or other training. You know, things that shouldn't be handed to them and are actually important / productive aspects in a life worthy of scheduling time for. Tok is speaking about spending time gaining items in a video game, items that do not exist.... FFXI is a video game remember, he shouldn't be expected to overly sacrifice in order to 'deserve' items as much as anyone else.

I don't like how this game makes a person spend a lot of time to gain high end items. People can quickly confuse fun with clouded objectives making them spend hours on a false goal. In the end you finish with many real life goals being neglected. Don't get me wrong, i understand that this is what makes a game fun, but there becomes a point where the amount of time spent becomes just plain stupid.
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Welcome to MMO. Why is it wrong to brag about achieving a goal? I bet there are plenty of people out there who spend more time watching sports, and they brag when their team wins, even though it has nothing to do with them, lol. If you are spending 10+ hours every day on this game, then there is an issue. Spending a few hours 2 days a week (Dynamis), maybe more for farming gil, is hardly a waste of time. This isn't a job or school. This is a past time, a hobby. Some people watch sports. Some people paint. Some people read. We play a game. What you are discussing isn't about "electronic items" or "false goals", you are comparing recreation to responsibilities. Yes there has to be a balance, but that doesn't make the recreational goals any less meaningful.

Nyett said:
It is possible to play this game for fun only. Sure it's nice to be appreciated, to be given some items for helping but to have this view of being 'owed'... sounds like a second job to me and sounds a little, umm, demanding/expecting. Plus after spending $100 on games at a carnival a certain type of person will feel like they are owed. This was exacty my point Lavi, the difference is within the person and why they are playing the game, fun or prize.

And my little carnival analogy shows how easily a person can lose control once they start sacrificing time other than 'free time', as Tok was getting at, and which you replied to. Its a vicious cycle where people still play because they invested so much time, which ironically makes them keep playing, spending even more time cause they don't want to waste the time they have already wasted.

This is the problem with 'who play more deserves more' attitude cause it feeds the above cycle and is only based on bulk time played. The sacrifice of a person's time is subjective, two hours on a game for one person doesn't always equal two hours to another since we all have different things going on in our different phazes of life.
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This is better, since you are pointing out the unhealthy in the extreme cases, however, this game is barely more then time management. Those skilled on certain jobs, or at obtaining gil, are able to shorten the time required to achieve their goals, but that doesn't mean that every player cannot achieve any goal they wish to. All it requires is time. Because of that, perseverance and patience are rewarded, and should be. Someone who worked part time at McDonald's all their life should not deserve the same things as someone who worked 2+ jobs and put themselves through school (I know someone who did the latter).
 
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