Dynamis drops, an observation

[Bajaratt]

Before I begin, I want to explain where this theory comes from. It's from observations that I've made over the last few months about the treasure pool for dynamis. If anyone has noticed that the treasure pool has worked differently, let me know. I haven't actually gone to any real efforts to get data for this theory, it's just something I noticed over the year I've done dynamis and started to think about when I was bored lfg. I've been thinking about this for a couple months now, but was just too lazy to bother asking anyone about it.

The theory is this: I think if you kill too fast that you will get less drops.

The reasoning behind this theory is how the treasure pool seems to work during dynamis. All of the items that drop in dynamis can be summed up as money items, ancient coins, relic weapons and relic(aka AF2 but relic sounds cooler and is less confusing) armor. During the runs, I noticed that if the treasure pool was full and you killed another mob, any money items and relic weapons would be forced out to whoever had the highest lot or to just anyone if no one had a chance to lot before it was forced out.

The thing is, I do not remember ever seeing any ancient currency(either 1 or 100 coin) being force-distributed nor any AF2, they stayed until everyone passed or it's timer was up. Also, while the treasure pool was full of some combination of unforcable loot, usually ten 1-coins, any monsters that were killed didn't drop anything. I do not think that the 1-coins can be forced out of the treasure pool, because if they were then a lot more people would end up with random coins rather than the people chosen to lot for the linkshell; and as far as I am aware that has not happened. This observation made sense because ancient currency and relic armor are the main purpose for dynamis, so it stood to reason that SE wouldn't allow people to get screwed on those drops.

What this theory means, if other people can verify that it's not just me, is that by killing faster; and therefore filling up the treasure pool with unforcable items faster; leads to less drops overall. Since killing monsters while the treasure pool is full leads forces nothing to drop since it has no where to go; it's basically preventing the opportunity for items to drop, whatever they may be. If this theory pans out, the solutions would be slowing down kills to let the coins auto-drop to the bidders or just have everyone pass the coins.

I'm not intending on anyone changing their linkshell's policy to have everyone pass coins or to slow down kills. This is just meant to be an intellectual debate about a series of observations that I have had and their possible implications regarding dynamis. So, any thoughts?

 

[Stouter]

Yes, you are partially right. AF2 at least (never noticed it for 100c) sits for the 5 minutes unless everyone lots/passes, while the junk items get forced out first, even if dropping after it. I'm not sure how you suggest that slowing down killing would mean more drops, since items do continue to drop with a full treasure pool, and I have seen 2 pieces of the same AF2 sitting in the treasure pool at the same time.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm saying that when the treasure pool is full of items that won't be force-dropped due to incoming loot, that unless you clear the pool somehow new loot wouldn't drop to enter the pool. I've seen two of the same AF2 in the pool before as well, but I'm not talking about that, just when the pool is full you have to empty it for new items to come in.

 

[Stouter]

I've seen items forced out by drops though, 10 items in pool, something drops, coins get forced into inv.

 

[Bajaratt]

I've seen items forced out by drops though, 10 items in pool, something drops, coins get forced into inv.

So coins actually do get forced out of the pool? I dont remember ever seeing that before, which was the whole basis for this theory. I might not have been paying that much attention and missed it, as I said in my first post I hadn't actually attempted to prove the theory it was just an offhand observation. I'll have to check that the next time I do dynamis.

 

[Courtney]

I'm saying that when the treasure pool is full of items that won't be force-dropped due to incoming loot, that unless you clear the pool somehow new loot wouldn't drop to enter the pool. I've seen two of the same AF2 in the pool before as well, but I'm not talking about that, just when the pool is full you have to empty it for new items to come in.

It's actually not the case. You don't notice it in Loveless because we don't lot coins, but in Destinys, where lotting 1 coins is an option, it becomes clearer.

There seem to be three classes of items.

Money Drops (Crafting items, Infinity Cores etc non-rare non-ex):
These items are the first to be pushed out of the item pool. If there is a money drop in the item pool, and the pool is full, any further drops will cause the money drop to distribute. Often if two mobs die close together (ie a stone and a normal mob) often a gold beastcoin will drop and it will almost immediately be replaced by a 1 coin from the mob.

Single coins (non-rare non-ex)
If there are no Money items in the pool, the oldest single coin will then be pushed out of the pool. It is pretty common to have a full item pool, have a mob drop say 3x single coins, and have three coins distribute just as the mob dies to make room for the three that have just dropped. You actually get the message for the distribution at the same time as the new items go into the item pool, which can be a few seconds before you get the message telling you about the new drops.

Relic Armour (Rare-Ex)
Relic stays in the Treasure pool for the full time (5 minutes?) regardless of what else enters the pool (unless I guess if theoretically you had enough rare/ex drops to fill the pool). Unless everyone lots pretty much everything else will get pushed from the pool instead of the relic.

I suspect that relic weapons follow the same rules as relic armour, and that 100 coins follow the same rulse as 1 coins, but I haven't really taken that much notice of how they are autolotting. You still get just as many drops when the loot pool is full, as when it's empty though...

 

[Bajaratt]

Ok, it must just be a failed observation on my part then. I just remember seeing mobs killed that dropped nothing while the treasure pool was full of coins. I wasn't paying that close of attention to when stuff dropped, so I probably just missed that the coins were being pushed out sometimes. At least my observation about the money items was right, I should have done a little more research about the treasure pool then.

 

[Foofighter]

We get the most AF from Bastok which is the zone we kill the quickest in. The last Bastok run we did we had like 50 people and the mobs were dropping faster then I could target them and I think we got an amazing amount of AF.

What I have noticed is that some jobs AF drops at a much more frequent rate. Where is the Nin relic may I ask?

 

[Myihta]

A post for more support for in regards to Treasure Pool. It's sometimes difficult to tell what's going on when you have a treasure pool that's full of money. But stuff does get pushed out.

Happy times reminds me of a conversation that I had with one of the other captains of the LS that I was in and how the treasure pool was full. They were kinda hoping that I would stop pulling because they thought maybe AF2 would not drop if we had a full treasure pool. Two mobs later AF2 dropped and there it sat. As for the AF2 stuck in treasure pool itself, I think there's a priority on certain types of items that don't get pushed out as fast as other items would.

 

[Courtney]

Like anything random, from time to time it seems like there are patterns that aren't really there.

We had a hard time getting BLM AF2 forever. Last Jeuno run we got 6xBLM AF2 with 4-5 in a row. Randomness is really... Random!

 

[CmdrFly]

What I have noticed is that some jobs AF drops at a much more frequent rate.

I remember Art saying something along the lines of moon phases.

We have no solid evidence, but it does seem like some days we'll get 4-5 AF for one job and 1-3 others in total. Could it be that certain moon phases affect certain job drops? I highly doubt it, but we've seen this case several times - mass drops for PLD in one Bastok run, mass drops for RDM in a different Bastok run, and probably a couple more instances on the Tuesday runs that I don't attend.

So, for example, PLD's phase is 67% waning. During that moon phase, if you're running a Dynamis that drops a PLD piece, you may be granted a 5-10% boost in chance of drop.

It's pretty far-fetched, and seems like something SE would probably not do. But how many shells out there have seen similar instances?

 

[Bajaratt]

Moon phase would kind of make sense. I've noticed when we get huge numbers of AF2, the moon is typically between 15-30%, but didn't think about certain jobs pertaining to different moon phases. Moon phase might explain our 5 melee gaiter bastoks or the 6 sorcerer's saboton jeuno. Got 3 cleric pantaloon's the same run as the blm feet, really odd.

 

[Courtney]

Moon phase would kind of make sense. I've noticed when we get huge numbers of AF2, the moon is typically between 15-30%, but didn't think about certain jobs pertaining to different moon phases. Moon phase might explain our 5 melee gaiter bastoks or the 6 sorcerer's saboton jeuno. Got 3 cleric pantaloon's the same run as the blm feet, really odd.

Was 70ish% moon for that run...

 

[decidence]

100c, AF2, and Shadow Items stay in Treasure Pool for the required 5mins or unless everyone has lotted/passed, everything else can be forced out by having a full pool.

 

[Elemmire]

1 coins are forced out, the ones on the top. Usually the junk items we commonly refer to as junk is forced out first then comes the 1 coins then the 100 currency I believe (though it never really comes to it I think). From what I can tell it doesn't seem like the faster and more you kill the less you get. And for our runs we've been pretty much in the 30-50% moon phase (I always check in the beginning) and on average in the cities get about 150 1 coins with roughly 5 AF2 (usually more but Windurst has been bad for us and seriously killing our average D: ) and northlands for us (atleast Beaucedine since we are trying to make sure our members have xarcabard access before we go so we don't leave anyone out) we get 100 1 coins on average with about 4 AF2 average about. Last Beaucedine, as you know, was fun with drops for us :3 2 WHM, 2 BRD, 2 WAR, 1 DRK, 1 DRG, 1 BLM ftw XD

 

[Arturus]

There seem to be three classes of items.

Money Drops (Crafting items, Infinity Cores etc non-rare non-ex):
These items are the first to be pushed out of the item pool. If there is a money drop in the item pool, and the pool is full, any further drops will cause the money drop to distribute. Often if two mobs die close together (ie a stone and a normal mob) often a gold beastcoin will drop and it will almost immediately be replaced by a 1 coin from the mob.

Single coins (non-rare non-ex)
If there are no Money items in the pool, the oldest single coin will then be pushed out of the pool. It is pretty common to have a full item pool, have a mob drop say 3x single coins, and have three coins distribute just as the mob dies to make room for the three that have just dropped. You actually get the message for the distribution at the same time as the new items go into the item pool, which can be a few seconds before you get the message telling you about the new drops.

Relic Armour (Rare-Ex)
Relic stays in the Treasure pool for the full time (5 minutes?) regardless of what else enters the pool (unless I guess if theoretically you had enough rare/ex drops to fill the pool). Unless everyone lots pretty much everything else will get pushed from the pool instead of the relic.

I suspect that relic weapons follow the same rules as relic armour, and that 100 coins follow the same rulse as 1 coins, but I haven't really taken that much notice of how they are autolotting. You still get just as many drops when the loot pool is full, as when it's empty though...

I can confirm this is how it has worked for TheDynamisShow as well. We let single coins autosort, and the older ones (at the top) get pushed out of the pool as new ones come in. I believe there is a fourth class, I think the Relic weapons are seperate from the AF2, but I may be mistaken. Keep the pool open next time you are in a not so hectic place and you can see the items moving through the pool as the drops happen. We deffinitely get drops even when the pool is full.

I doubt we will ever see it happen but I think AF2 would push out AF2 if anyone ever had a full pool of it. It seems to me to be priority based categories like Blowy described.

 

[Arturus]

I remember Art saying something along the lines of moon phases.

We have no solid evidence, but it does seem like some days we'll get 4-5 AF for one job and 1-3 others in total. Could it be that certain moon phases affect certain job drops? I highly doubt it, but we've seen this case several times - mass drops for PLD in one Bastok run, mass drops for RDM in a different Bastok run, and probably a couple more instances on the Tuesday runs that I don't attend.

So, for example, PLD's phase is 67% waning. During that moon phase, if you're running a Dynamis that drops a PLD piece, you may be granted a 5-10% boost in chance of drop.

It's pretty far-fetched, and seems like something SE would probably not do. But how many shells out there have seen similar instances?

I still think there is some tie to moon phase with regard to % chance of certain jobs dropping. There are too many unknown variables though for me to have anything more than a theory, I wish I could find some way to isolate that one thing and test it, but I think there are too many other unknowns to be able to get good data.

One of the other things I noticed is we all seem to have slightly different common pieces for different areas. For example BST boots (3 in 8 runs) and RDM body (4 in 8 runs) are common for us (TDS) in B. Glacier, for Invictus DRG and SAM are common if I remember right.

On the opposite side of that DRG is rare for us in B. Glacier, we have yet to see one piece of it drop.

In Sandy RDM Boots are rare for us, but other shells see them as a common drop. For us in Sandy RNG pants and MNK pants are both fairly regular drops, probably not exactly common but close.

I don't think it is tied to the person purchasing the hourglass, or where the hourglass is purchased, we seem to mix those up often enough. The one thing I think may really be a possibility is approx real world time of entry. It is the one thing almost all shells keep constant in some way. So it might account for the regularity of drops per shell.

It is all just theory really.

 

[Bajaratt]

I still think there is some tie to moon phase with regard to % chance of certain jobs dropping. There are too many unknown variables though for me to have anything more than a theory, I wish I could find some way to isolate that one thing and test it, but I think there are too many other unknowns to be able to get good data.

One of the other things I noticed is we all seem to have slightly different common pieces for different areas. For example BST boots (3 in 8 runs) and RDM body (4 in 8 runs) are common for us (TDS) in B. Glacier, for Invictus DRG and SAM are common if I remember right.

On the opposite side of that DRG is rare for us in B. Glacier, we have yet to see one piece of it drop.

In Sandy RDM Boots are rare for us, but other shells see them as a common drop. For us in Sandy RNG pants and MNK pants are both fairly regular drops, probably not exactly common but close.

I don't think it is tied to the person purchasing the hourglass, or where the hourglass is purchased, we seem to mix those up often enough. The one thing I think may really be a possibility is approx real world time of entry. It is the one thing almost all shells keep constant in some way. So it might account for the regularity of drops per shell.

It is all just theory really.

Heh, I had that thought earlier today myself. In loveless it was a ton of melee cyclas(MNK), whereas in lolDynamis they're getting lots of Cleric Briault(WHM).

A cross-linkshell program to help people get gear would be interesting. If the piece is going to free lot in your linkshell and still dropping often, have a couple people show up from another shell who need it. Although my mannequin could always use more wyrm gear. :biggrin:

 

[Arturus]

Heh, I had that thought earlier today myself. In loveless it was a ton of melee cyclas(MNK), whereas in lolDynamis they're getting lots of Cleric Briault(WHM).

A cross-linkshell program to help people get gear would be interesting. If the piece is going to free lot in your linkshell and still dropping often, have a couple people show up from another shell who need it. Although my mannequin could always use more wyrm gear. :biggrin:

lol you just made 4 DRGs cry somewhere.

 

[Kire]

When it drops let lotter lot and every one pass then the pool stays empty?