Dynamis Shells Funding Weapons

[Bajaratt]

Any open roster Dynamis' probably shouldn't be hording coins for one member. One thats backed by a sky/HNM shell I can see it working out fine, but one where new members are coming in who have had no say in who is getting the relic should really reconsider their options. At least thats how I feel about it. If I were looking at Dynamis linkshells and I had the choice between upgrading a stranger and getting 1-7 coins in a freedrop Dynamis shell... well the choice should be obvious. If you're reliant on new recruits it's going to be a hard road for some members seeing one individual taking several thousand coins valued at 30k a piece.

There are no open roster dynamis shells anymore, Dynamis Pants was the only public shell and that broke up over a year ago. I agree with the sentiment though, that if there was a public shell that a free-drop distribution would be the only fair method to use, just like we used in Dynamis Pants. Although generally the linkshells that use the relic-upgrade method have roots in an HNM shell, so most of the roster is usually part of another team where the relic will get better use.

As for the coins, I honestly never cared in the slightest about getting a relic weapon, when I would get them in Dynamis Pants, I'd sell them to whoever wanted them. When the price first spiked to 20k, I still sold them at 5k a pop. The only way to really get a relic weapon is to be obscenely rich, or to have a linkshell's backing, and not everyone is a veteran crafter or camps NM's until their eyes bleed. If your LS is enough of a team to be willing to put the effort into getting people relic weapons one at a time, then I don't really see a problem with it unless you're only interested in gil.

I'm willing to spend countless hours in sky helping other people get osodes or other gear, I don't see that much of a difference in helping with a relic weapon. Considering that you spend only 6 hours a week max doing dynamis, the total time spent actually earning the one person's relic isn't that great compared to time spent in other activites for other gear. I really don't mind working towards helping people with their relic gear, and I'm sure others do too.

 

[Peregrine]

Hours. We're talking months. A year. For one. This game isn't going to last long enough to justify loading that kind of effort into one person.

 

[Foofighter]

I agree that only a shell that is exclusively HNM/Sky shell members should upgrade a member. Open rosters such as TheDyanmisShow this would not work. I do encourage our members to give or sell very cheap to the few people we have actively pursuing Relic upgrade - there will be a dragoon with full relic very shortly as long as we make the Glacier and Xarcabard runs for him. Even this is difficult to do with an open roster because seems like someone always needs a win. It is a great accomplishment for the whole shell to see a member upgrade a weapon, but not everyone shares the same sentiment as myself. We will as a shell help this member get the key items he needs to finish this off, however.
~Foofighter

 

[Zylia]

There are no open roster dynamis shells anymore, Dynamis Pants was the only public shell and that broke up over a year ago. I agree with the sentiment though, that if there was a public shell that a free-drop distribution would be the only fair method to use, just like we used in Dynamis Pants.

By open roster, I mean openly recruiting anyone who is interested. Any of the shells who are recruiting on QCDN or sending jeuno shouters to their websites would fall into that category. Maybe my terminology is incorrect, but it still stands that most people would much rather go to a shell that they will gain at least a bit of money to pay for RR items or poison potions, then to give any and all coin drops to one person to gain a couple damage on a weapon and a special weaponskill. Especially with the chances of the shell breaking and the individual set to upgrade changing his mind with thousands of coins in his inventory from the attempt to build.

 

[Foofighter]

I interpreted open roster as - being open to anyone regardless of other linkshells. However, we are closed to recruiting I consider our roster open because of the diversity of shells represented.
~Foofighter

 

[Bajaratt]

Hours. We're talking months. A year. For one. This game isn't going to last long enough to justify loading that kind of effort into one person.

I've spent over a year in sky already working on getting people gear, the principle is the same just on a larger scale. I'll agree that the weapons aren't worth it, really, but the shield/horn would be a noticable boost to a linkshell. Not in dynamis as much as during other endgame events but they would still help.

 

[Elemmire]

Hours. We're talking months. A year. For one. This game isn't going to last long enough to justify loading that kind of effort into one person.

Assuming it takes a year to get a fully upgraded relic and you only spend 6 hours a week (3 hours each) in dynamis.. that's 312 hours total to get a relic weapon. I don't know how you consider that months or so as Baja meant it.. I understand that you mean it really takes a year (blame SE with the nice 3 day wait between dynamis runs) but Baja meant compared to the time spent to get stuff in sky. Say it takes a month for a new sky LS to get through all the farming and gods to kirin and they are there atleast 2-3 days a week for around 6 hours (I've been there that long many times). 72 hours is the time it would take for just a shot at an osode. Considering drop rates (not bad.. but not great), the time it take for ulli to pop now... I'd say that greatly underestimated. If we wanna throw in HNMs and say a LS camps 1 king each window for a week 3 hours each day pops at best twice a week (assuming it pops 3rd day where it first can at a REALLY low rate) and with drop rates.. well.. that's just more rediculous amount of time. Everything in this game takes time to get things. It takes a hell of a long time for anything. If they changed dynamis' timer to be say.. a day so you can do it once a day and a LS did it once a day.. well I'd bet we'd see relic weapons in about 2 weeks time (even with the gobbie wait that'd be true I think) which, compared to HNMs, Sky, and Sea (lol!), is extremely better. Just compared to the time actually spent working on it a relic weapon isn't as time consuming as the time you need to put into for the other things. The wait in between dynamis is just what makes it long though not actually a time consuming feature cause you aren't working toward the relic (assuming the person isn't buying up coins outside of dynamis time and such).

In reality, ya, it takes a long time for a relic to be produced, but compared to the time spent working on it with the time spent working on other things in the game (like gettng to 75 as another example), it isn't all that rediculous.

 

[Stouter]

In reality, ya, it takes a long time for a relic to be produced, but compared to the time spent working on it with the time spent working on other things in the game (like gettng to 75 as another example), it isn't all that rediculous.

30 people can pop and kill all gods from an average of 10 hours each. In the same amount of time 30 people can get what, 1,000 coins in dynamis, if they are lucky? Sure drop rates aren't 100% in sky, but if it takes 3 rounds for that one item, you're still well short of the relic time figure, and you are making gil and exp in the process, as opposed to losing them in dynamis.

 

[Elemmire]

30 people can pop and kill all gods from an average of 10 hours each. In the same amount of time 30 people can get what, 1,000 coins in dynamis, if they are lucky? Sure drop rates aren't 100% in sky, but if it takes 3 rounds for that one item, you're still well short of the relic time figure, and you are making gil and exp in the process, as opposed to losing them in dynamis.

oh really? With the competition there is now? With the time it takes for the pop NMs to repop? I doubt any group will do that all in 10 hours.

 

[Stouter]

oh really? With the competition there is now? With the time it takes for the pop NMs to repop? I doubt any group will do that all in 10 hours.

An average of 10 hours each, not 30 people all at once in sky for a 10 hour block.

 

[Elemmire]

An average of 10 hours each, not 30 people all at once in sky for a 10 hour block.

eh.. I still think that's too low a number with repops of NMs now (that seemingly get more and more increased with each update) and the competition.

 

[Nasya]

Honestly, i think it would be a very rare case where someone who was upgrading relic would depend entirely on the dynamis shell to back them. I know that isn't how it works in loveless/limitless. Rather it is a way to excelerate and support those who wish to upgrade. to depend entirely on a Dynamis shell for upgrade is obviously impracticle, but to use it as a support, maybe to fund ~half of the relic... i think that is a far better use of the coins than having them auto lot.

Something fire brought up on another thread, and i think would be an interesting topic is... stage three is all that is needed to benifit a dynamis shell. It takes far less time to achieve stage three, so what do you think of a shell that would have a goal to do that for most of its members? Starting with Horn/Aegis i'd think and than moving down to the other weapons. '-'

 

[Darklion]

Honestly, i think it would be a very rare case where someone who was upgrading relic would depend entirely on the dynamis shell to back them. I know that isn't how it works in loveless/limitless. Rather it is a way to excelerate and support those who wish to upgrade. to depend entirely on a Dynamis shell for upgrade is obviously impracticle, but to use it as a support, maybe to fund ~half of the relic... i think that is a far better use of the coins than having them auto lot.

Something fire brought up on another thread, and i think would be an interesting topic is... stage three is all that is needed to benifit a dynamis shell. It takes far less time to achieve stage three, so what do you think of a shell that would have a goal to do that for most of its members? Starting with Horn/Aegis i'd think and than moving down to the other weapons. '-'

I'm sure most people will Agree with you but are to scared too speak for fear of being kicked from their LS that they put in work on and would drop down to the bottom of another LS Tier if they went to another LS and started all over again.

 

[Peregrine]

Only using shell assets to build a dynamis-specific weapon (paladin shield, bard horn) to stage three is a decent idea. Supplementation, however, doesn't solve much. Who has the right to get shell supplementation? Everyone? Then it's the same as freedropping. Only the privileged? Then it's favoritism. It's no better than freely upgrading one person either in the end, and maybe worse. That is, they still don't deserve it and you're giving the recipient more leverage to justify that they have the right to the coins they earn because they pay some minuscule amount for them. Better that it be totally free, because they honestly can never earn it. If a shellmember is to get a relic, I'd rather it not go to the richest person. That's pretty lame to pander to the rich like that when they can't afford it either. Relic should not be wellfare for the privileged.

Lol I just found out there's a dude in my shell with a stage 2.5 relic who is buying from all my members MARKET PRICE. I've REALLY been out of it with finals...

To me, shellmates shouldn't ask for 30k discounts from shellmates. I make strangers pay 35k, but I would pay a friend 35k. It evens out in the end. Relic belongs in the hands of those who can afford it, friend or stranger. Either that, or they should be totally free. If they're your friend they won't ask you to freely give while they give you nothing in return but a smile and a thank you. That's not a friend. That's a grateful leech.

 

[Charcoip]

I think shells should get theyre plds excalibur! then we can have paladin melee burn partys! 6pld/nin using excalibur = fast xp! lol

 

[Uzor]

I'm sure most people will Agree with you but are to scared too speak for fear of being kicked from their LS that they put in work on and would drop down to the bottom of another LS Tier if they went to another LS and started all over again.

Yeah, I mentioned that in the last thread too

They might not have given you crap about it, but you can never know what's being said through /tells. They might be talking about it in /tells, and never really bring it up 'cause they're affraid of being kicked, and thus having to start over with 0 attendance in another LS.

Didn't get an answer though from what I remember. Let's see if it works out better this time.

 

[Peregrine]

That's bullcrap. There are always shellbeggars who would bite their tongue just to keep getting theirs, but they are the minority of players. The vast majority of people either have the backbone to leave if they don't like what's going on, or joined not caring what happens to dynamis coins. To claim otherwise and that the game is full of people who hate their leads and are just there to get paid is being paranoid and pessimistic.

There is probably no behind the back talking here, and if there is, that shell is probably better without that kind of player. It's not that leads made the decision and the players around them don't agree with it. That's not it. The people around them seem to agree with it.

The sticking point is that you can get someone to agree to something without them knowing what they agreed to, and all it takes is some fancy words, convincing flattery, and vague ideal-thumping. Sounds noble, but any endpoint busts it. In a shell that upgrades someone's relic, when it's over it's a failure. It can't end and be a success. That's a problem. Things end.

 

[Blazeoffury]

That's bullcrap. There are always shellbeggars who would bite their tongue just to keep getting theirs, but they are the minority of players. The vast majority of people either have the backbone to leave if they don't like what's going on, or joined not caring what happens to dynamis coins. To claim otherwise and that the game is full of people who hate their leads and are just there to get paid is being paranoid and pessimistic.

There is probably no behind the back talking here, and if there is, that shell is probably better without that kind of player. It's not that leads made the decision and the players around them don't agree with it. That's not it. The people around them seem to agree with it.

The sticking point is that you can get someone to agree to something without them knowing what they agreed to, and all it takes is some fancy words, convincing flattery, and vague ideal-thumping. Sounds noble, but any endpoint busts it. In a shell that upgrades someone's relic, when it's over it's a failure. It can't end and be a success. That's a problem. Things end.

I stated it before and I'll state it again. Yes that person may leave, but that's the chance you take with all ra/ex equipment, and even ra eqiupment when you give it to a certain person. Say Person A joins kaizen, earns enough points and gets herald's gaiters. There aren't a whole lot of those on the server. Person A gets tired of FFXI and leaves, most of the time Person A doesn't give the gaiters back to those who helped them get it. If those are the only drop from tiamat in say a month, even though they killed Tiamat everytime by your logic it is then a failure, so basically the whole game is a failure because we will all quit someday and then take our gear with us because one day there will be only one person on the server, and when that person quits, he/she will have to just delete everything and everything anyone has ever worked for is a failure. Why not work for an accomplishment as a shell? Why not be one of the few? Why not live every day like it's your last? People going into dynamis just to make gil aren't going for the right reason, Dynamis is a group effort yes. It takes that group to get coins yes. But if the group as a whole decides by majority votes to whom the relic will be upgraded for then it is also a group effort on deciding who gets the relic. Then the group effort ends up with a relic and they vote again and start all over. This whole game is a group effort, it's not all about gil.

They may not be a team effort in themselves, hell you can buy them all with gil, but to actually work to obtain them <which will make you feel a hell of a lot better about it> takes a team effort. It takes a team to kill tiamat to get the Gaiters to drop. It takes a team to kill Kirin to get the Osode to drop. It takes a team to get the items in the northlands, and it takes a team to donate coins and help the person they voted to get relic their relic faster.

 

[Uzor]

Herald Gaiters isn't a good example.

It is a lot easier to earn them, and you specifically stated "And earns enough points to get Herald's Gaiters". That means he earned it, and thus, they are his. Its the same with Kirin's Osode etc. too. Its a lot easier to earn them.

Now, mind telling me a single person who actually EARNS a 700mil weapon, that takes months to get, and a lot more time and effort spent on from the entire LS then every Kirin Osode and Byakko's Haidate you have ever got to drop in the LS? Not to mention probably the only one (or second) one that exists o nthe server?

There is nothing you can do in this game that EARNS you a Relic Weapon unless you buy it yourself.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Herald Gaiters isn't a good example.

It is a lot easier to earn them, and you specifically stated "And earns enough points to get Herald's Gaiters". That means he earned it, and thus, they are his. Its the same with Kirin's Osode etc. too. Its a lot easier to earn them.

Now, mind telling me a single person who actually EARNS a 700mil weapon, that takes months to get, and a lot more time and effort spent on from the entire LS then every Kirin Osode and Byakko's Haidate you have ever got to drop in the LS? Not to mention probably the only one (or second) one that exists o nthe server?

There is nothing you can do in this game that EARNS you a Relic Weapon unless you buy it yourself.

Well apparently if the ENTIRE LS votes on ONE person to upgrade then that person has EARNED the respect of the LS, maybe not earned 700M but the LS as a whole respects him. He didn't earn it, The LS earned it,but they wanted to have somewhere to place that accomplishment, and they chose him/her. In any case I was stating the flaw in Peregrine's Logic. But if you want to talk about "Earning" a relic weapon then say a Dynamis LS had a point list for 5 months, and the person with the most points at the end of the 5 month period is chosen for the relic, then you could say he "techinically" earned it.