Dynamis Shells Funding Weapons

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decidence said:
Wait, who gets coins from their LS's for FREE? I don't know LS's that give coins to upgraders for nothing. Upgraders pay between 5-10k per coin to pay for the run, its not free, they aren't leeching. They are in dynamis for just as long as you doing just as much work and dieing just as much as you, and they spend as much time and money as you.

And theres no way in hell a LS could fund 100% of someones upgrade, it would just take too long. Any upgrader thats far enough along knows this and realizes they will end up buying at least 20%~ of their coins from bazaars along the way.

And I haven't been in a single LS yet that only upgraded ONE person's weapon and refused to upgrade anyone elses. Although I have seen what its like for a LS to try and upgrade too many people at the same time and virtually nothing is accomplished.

If you can consider upgraders leechers, I don't see how AF2 lotters aren't also leechers. I mean I don't need hardly any AF2 pieces anymore for ANY of my 3 jobs. I have lotted on 1 drop in over a month. So aside from helping other people get their AF2, why am I still going to dynamis? Oh right... according to your definition I am leeching dynamis coins.
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Getting them for free, getting them for 15-30% of market value, it's semantics. And like I said, I have no trouble with a fair system of assisting people's upgrades, such as Firestreak's. My problem is with "only certain people can get coins" or "we're upgrading one person at a time." Calling people freeloaders is what really bugged me. Not spending 20k for the run makes you more of a freeloader than someone getting 6M worth of currency for the 1M entry fee?
 
Am i the only one who remembers the whole complete or near complete refund you get at the end of ugrading a relic weapon? (sorry theres alot of pages ima check on em in a few) IN theory a ls could band together and keep track of how much dynamis currency is in ls and merge the money together when and ONLY when there are suffucient coins owned by all dynamis ls members. After fully upgrading all coins are given back to those who donated. If its not a full refund then the person who got a relic should replace any shortcomings in terms of currency left and have the capital to do so immediatly.
Rinse and repeat
 
Khajit said:
Am i the only one who remembers the whole complete or near complete refund you get at the end of ugrading a relic weapon? (sorry theres alot of pages ima check on em in a few) IN theory a ls could band together and keep track of how much dynamis currency is in ls and merge the money together when and ONLY when there are suffucient coins owned by all dynamis ls members. After fully upgrading all coins are given back to those who donated. If its not a full refund then the person who got a relic should replace any shortcomings in terms of currency left and have the capital to do so immediatly.
Rinse and repeat
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it's only 3,000 coins you get back, whereas it takes 16,000 coins to fund the full weapon.
 
damn that sucks.. I coulda sworn i saw 10k coins being refunded in a mandau video..
 
decidence said:
I don't think this is a discussion anymore lol.
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I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm trying to understand different people's mentality. The more fair we try and control aspect of players while conforming to standards of fairness the more complex the system becomes.

Gives people points for attendence, then subtract points when they win af2? Then use points to buy coins with?

Such a system will maybe allow people to focus in on the AF2 they really want or become so complicated that people become annoyed with how complex it is to understand and there are constant incidents such as the recent one about a 100c. Such a system might favor people with 1 job? Maybe one favors people with 5 jobs. Maybe one favors people who still need af2 versus one that favors people who need upgrade. It depends on how people really do value what an AF2 piece is worth.

Do we mix gil into participation levels? Do we mix coins and af2? Do af2 pieces have money values? If not, then is all the money needed to buy an 4th stage relic worthless compared to BLM AF2 hands?

By saying that your not needing AF2 to upgrade justifies you to buy the coins at reduced value, you are opening yourself up to this line of questioning.
 
I have to laugh at all this bickering, because I think I'm the only one who remembers back in the first times of NA's thinking about upgrading....

You would sponsor a run and hope you hit the 1 mil total coin value on the run, but most of the time, you would not because of the massive amount of coins needed to reach this goal..Not to mention, the fact that most people were still new to Dynamis.

Some people are still sponsoring today, and obviously, market value has changed. Why should that change the desire of a group to get a weapon done? I don't give a damn what the coin prices are, but if a team I run with is kicking ass and taking names in Dynamis, I'd rather see those coins go to an upgrade rather than a random bazaar. This is and has been my attitude before my current shell, lolDynamis, ever sprung up.

Not everything in this game is about money, and I laugh at the people who actually think of Dynamis as a money making system as opposed to the wild ride it once was back before people got greedy and overconcerned with 1 coins.
 
single coins' value is purely arbitrary.

that is all.
 
Maybe some Relics would be obtained quicker if most people grew some brains and realize that the only two Relics worth a fuck is Sheild and Horn, nuff said. Everything else is just show.

There's this BLM is know (No names for privacy.) who is upgrading Staff, he's on stage 2 or 3 now, I don't know. Seriously, BLM staff. Wake the fuck up people.
Horn, Sheild > Your shitty pos show-off weapon.
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Holy crap, I'm back, and I just realized something.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF COINS WERE EX.

kthnxbye
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$%^$@#$&!!!!!111 I just realized another thing.

Let's go back in time, and say you were in the first sky LS ever, You have killed Seiryu over 20 times now, and never has a kote dropped, finally kote drops.

Who do you give it to the RNG or the BST?

Now as soon as you answered that question, ask yourself what is the point of upgrading other weapons rather than Sheild and Horn.

Catch my drift? Or still curing people while swinging that Kraken Club?

Kthnxbyeagainrofl.
 
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xKronox said:
Maybe some Relics would be obtained quicker if most people grew some goddamn brains and realize that the only two Relics worth a fuck is Sheild and Horn, nuff said. Everything else is just show.

There's this BLM is know (No names for privacy.) who is upgrading Staff, he's on stage 2 or 3 now, I don't know. Seriously, BLM staff. Wake the fuck up people.
Horn, Sheild > Your shitty pos show-off weapon.
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Is he doing so from the shell or is he using his own money? If he's using his own money then it doesn't matter what is being done. And whatever relic he wants is his own choice.
 
It's always annoying when people bring up the "why do you care so much about what other ls's do?" arguments when someone has a differing opinion. The person with the differing opinion is just stating their opinion and arguing their reasons for having that opinion. Asking why they care about how their opinions apply to another ls is like saying "If you don't care, then why are you replying?"

It's a cheap way out of arguing against someone else's own valid points... or wait, they aren't valid because yours are just so much more valid that they shouldn't even respond.

Anyhow, I am a bit miffed about going to so many dynamis runs over the past few years and having absolutely nothing to show for it except for af2 legs and losing so many days worth of exp. I'd prefer to let coins just drop because, honestly, I'd like to sell the coins so I can buy better/more gear. Relic gear is cool, but I really don't want it that badly to continue doing this at the rate I'm going.
 
Watch the language, you can have a heated debate without cursing.
 
You can but its not as much fun if done right
 
I'd just like to throw one question out there.

If you take the stance that you should get coins because you don't get AF2 anymore since the LS got you AF2...

(thereby saying getting AF2 isn't a reason to stay cause you owe LS)

... then why would they possibly expect you to stay after you get level 4 weapon?
 
Maybe there are people with a conscience and a will to help others?

It may seem like a naive notion but it is there just not where it benefits others
 
Who is taking the stance that someone should get coins cuz their not getting AF2 much anymore. Theres still Shadow Items, Xarcabard AF2 etc etc...

Firestreak, nobody is gonna change their LS rules because of your posts here. And your bordering on personal attacks by trying to disrepute people's positions in their linkshells. This type of posting isn't allowed here.
 
decidence said:
Who is taking the stance that someone should get coins cuz their not getting AF2 much anymore. Theres still Shadow Items, Xarcabard AF2 etc etc...

Firestreak, nobody is gonna change their LS rules because of your posts here. And your bordering on personal attacks by trying to disrepute people's positions in their linkshells. This type of posting isn't allowed here.
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I don't think anyone posting here are trying to change any LS's rules... This is a discussion about fariness of giving coisn to people, its not a matter of changing anyones oppinion.
 
This is a never ending debate that I don't think anyone manages to see eye to eye on. I even managed to argue this with someone I've respected on many levels and realized it was better left at a mute point.

However, in light of the opening post... If an entire linkshell wished to back someone in getting a relic weapon/shield there would be nothing wrong with it. Reason being is that upon joining they know just where their coins are going. They know upon entering before they are handed an hour-glass. It's a matter of choice. Am I a greedy person for not being in a linkshell that does sponcered runs? No. Am I a greedy person for selling the coins that drop into my inventory? No. Do I honestly care who upgrades and who doesn't? No.

I like the way that my dynamis handles coins/entry fee. The million is split between all members present. I'm paying my share to enter. Upon paying my share I automatically want to see the success of the run. Coins are auto-distributed via treasure pool and AFs are handled via standerd rules. Now by selling the coins I might make a profit or simply break even but I am given a choice on what I want to do with said coins. If I need gil to buy a noble's or even some pie I can. If I want to save coins and upgrade my relic armor I can. It is my choice. If I want to donate my coins, I can.

Personally, I think that by selling coins on the open-market it makes things fair for that "black mage" to be able to upgrade his relic. Chances are his upgrade staff is going to "help" me as much as donating all of my coins to some random bard who was picked out of a hat to receive relic horn. On top of that he doesn't have to obtain backing from his peers-- he only has to be able to continue to shell out gil to support his own relic. Many would argue that you cannot win a dynamis without BLM-- and I'd most likely support them in this. So, why should a BLM not be able to upgrade his staff? The system I support offers more individual choice, even if it might not lead to fully upgrade relics it does make it more enjoyable for all in the meantime. What most of you are missing in all of this is the enjoyment of doing the dynamis. Its not about who is freeloading or even who is getting used. Admittingly, certain job classes make out better in dynamis than others.

Currently 4/5 on a full set of WHM relic gear and honestly I'd say many in my shell would like to see me in a full set more so than I do. So far I've only seen one other white mage (japanese) in a full set (I'm certain there is most likely a lot more out there). Does receiving the AF automatically mean that I should hand over the coins when everyone entering has the same oppertunity to receive AF? I'd argue until I was blue in the face that WHM JSE is the best gear for a WHM although admittingly, I don't wear it as often as I should. To some dynamis is more about the AF than it is the coins-- and to some it is more about the fun than the AF.

..and to me, it's all about the win. The glory of taking down the Dynamis Lord with a team you've watched grow over a period of time holds more priority than any relic weapon-- but, to each their own. Some have been there and done that and gone back for more. We all have different views. Accept them or dismiss them, but in the end only you trade the hourglass to enter.
 
To be honest. I've looked up what it takes to upgrade the relics I want. While I can fully appreciate shells helping their members out. As a whole it just doesn't seem efficient. What I'm wondering is are there any shells out there that don't mind if you are apart of another shell that does the same thing. When I get to 75 SAM I'm going to want a Totsukan. When I get my MNK to 75 I'm going to want Spharai. Spharai are really my main goal for this game. Once I get those I'll be happy doing whatever, but will shells have a problem with me doing as much of Dynamis as I can do or do you have to wait for your shell to do them because of the whole "hate the other shell" thing?
 
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