Elitists never learn, do they?

[decidence]

dual weild
add both up and thats your delay
with dual 1 u take 10% of that total delay of
D2 +5 more on
d3 +5 more
d4 +5 more

and any "encahce dul weild" means +5% take off total delay
with haste thats 10% more taken off and the brd song is 10% again
so thats alot and thats why a nin is a DD post 65 as all the dual weild

I dont even want to explain all the things wrong in this reply.

 

[Stouter]

i've been messing around with my suppanomimi for about 30 minutes, wearing it, taking it off, and judging the TP reduction

Maneater/Seiryu's Sword

Without Suppa:
Every round of attacks returns 12% TP

With Suppa:
I get two different amounts of TP per attack round, 11% & 12%. Each round of attacks goes back and forth between 11%, and 12%, which leads me to conclude that with this weapon setup, I'm losing 1% TP every other round of attacks (or .5% lost per attack round)

being the max TP% per attack round (pre-suppa) was 12%, this means I'm losing 4.16% of my TP per attack round (correct my math if wrong, plz)

however, being that Suppanomimi reduces Delay (When Dual-wielding) by 5%,
my attack speed increases by 5%, but TP gain decreases by 4.16%, giving the slight edge to Suppanomimi

(edit: Suppanomimi Dual Wield Delay information can be found here)

The TP difference is tiny in the axe range, and your attack speed is more than a 5% increase. To get dual wield delay you take your added delays and mulitply by DW constant, and suppa lowers that constant by 0.05. As a war/nin with DW2 your constant is 0.85, and lowering it to 0.80 is almost a 6% increase. When it gets noticeable is when you're a thief or ninja already at TP floor getting all those extra hits without losing any TP, moreso as a ninja because their constant is so low that suppa and AF body will drop delay by over 14%.

 

[Stouter]

No I mean, I thought if you are dual wielding two weapons with different delays that your attack speed will be clamped to your largest delay. Like if you Dual Wield a 400 delay weapon and a 200 delay weapon you will have 400 delay, not 200 delay, and not 300 delay. Ive never tested it I just figured that this is how it would work since you can't swing at different delays in 1 attack.

PS: I made a typo above when I said DWIII was 30%, I meant DWIV.

DW adds your delays together, it doesn't matter which one is higher or if they're the same. That's why thieves offhand Hornetsneedle and get crazy TP. And Dual wield isn't figured in with haste, it figured before haste and alters your TP, then haste is figured in.

ps - give AF body a shot for TP build on ninja.

 

[decidence]

ps - give AF body a shot for TP build on ninja.

Giving up +12 Acc and +16 Atk on Koga Chainmail probably won't make it worth it. Without Food my Accuracy is 85%, I dunno how much more +12 Acc will make that number drop but if it goes lower then 80% I don't even think Sole Sushi will cap it at 95% where I'm used to it being =/

 

[Mai Ikari]

Giving up +12 Acc and +16 Atk on Koga Chainmail probably won't make it worth it. Without Food my Accuracy is 85%, I dunno how much more +12 Acc will make that number drop but if it goes lower then 80% I don't even think Sole Sushi will cap it at 95% where I'm used to it being =/

Then put on the AF body and all the other haste gear you've got, and head off to Bibiki and solo, I'm sure you'll still be at 95% accuracy there, and it'll make a good test as to just how fast you can go.

Oh, and this is talking MNK now, no accuracy food, against level 80 targets... But wearing +25 accuracy in gear, another 5 accuracy was about a 3% improvement. So likely your accuracy will go down to 80%, unless you're going after Aura Statues or something. Not lower than 80%, though. And Sole Sushi will take 80% accuracy up past 93%, so you shouldn't have much to worry about.

 

[CmdrFly]

I dont even want to explain all the things wrong in this reply.

Yep.

Deci, BigD's been creaming over your parser results for about two weeks now. Please stop letting him see this data as it has been very detrimental to our marriage.

Regards,
Fly

 

[Watchyourstep]

Deci makes me soil my boxers with those stats.

 

[motley]

Even with a slight reduction in TP/hit, ninja will still hit for the same dmg/hit so ultimatly its the ridiculously boosted hit rate that makes them so good in these setups

Id also like to point out that everyone keeps adding DW% with Haste% and while they MAY stack i dont think they do, reduction in delay and increase in attack speed would have the same effect but COULD be calculated seperatly which would boost a well geared ninja even further.... example.....

a ninja i know has 40% from DW and 33% haste including Haste spell + haste gear

seperate- [ (1.00x140%DW) x 133% ] = 1.86 (86% increase)

first bracket for increase in hits 1.00 being the normal rate, second bracket multiplies that with the 33% haste

Just stacking them together 40% + 33% = 77%

Either way ninjas hold their own in DD cannons on pure attack speed alone

I really like it when i see people take real data to form opinions about jobs and how they function, im sure alot of people really thought ninja had no place in a DD cannon, hope this thread has openned some eyes and encouraged others to crunch some #'s before forming opinions

Pere, i dont know you, ive never partied with you or conversed with you in game, and i try not to judge people i havent spoken with but you made yourself look really dumb with this flame

 

[Skaw]

Haste does indeed not affect TP. It's calculated in after your total delay, given Martial Arts and Dual Wield, which manipulate your base attack speed.

Otherwise a DRK with Haste wouldn't be getting thier 12 or so TP on a scythe swing.

 

[Tagrineth]

I like how Peregrine stopped posting in this thread once it became impossible to deny his utter failure in its creation.

 

[Padington]

I think Pere was refering to his choice of sub since his lack of a /provoke would make him useless to a group of nukers in need of a tank. Don't ask me though since I've never done a cannon party...they wern't popular till after I was well into 75 as a Black mage.

 

[Bajaratt]

Cannon parties don't need tanks. Although his sub could have been due to another reason, like he was teleporting himself around or changed to nin from another job. I've gotten exp invites as sam/blm or brd/war before.

 

[decidence]

lol... do people seriously consider what someone's subjob is at the time they have their flag up?

Please for god sake do not disregard inviting someone because they have an abnormal subjob on. People run around with BLM and WHM subjobs so they can teleport and warp around while their seeking PT, it doesn't mean thats what they want to PT as. Which is exactly my case.

 

[Stouter]

Most of the invites I get on my ninja I'm running around as nin/blm, and I doubt they want me to show up to an exp party like that.

 

[ForteTeppo]

Rng/blm 4tw!!
- .- seriously, if ppl wants to cannon let em. Is it really your problem, concern if they dont want to party in a traditional pt? From the look of that list, seems like there are penty of other people willing to take his place. Just bugs me how you want to focus soley on certain people, stalkers o .o;

 

[decidence]

If you more carefully examine the list though you will see that Peregrine is also seeking PT and the only NIN tank seeking (Hyre was mission oriented) didn't want to PT with his ass.

 

[gir]

Doesn't it seem obvious that the two parser results have two things in common?

1. Higher WS dmg from the NIN, but same avg WS dmg.

2. Higher crit rate from the NIN.

From 1 we can conclude the NIN's TP gain is much higher than the WARs (owing to DWIV?), whereas the WS dmg he gets each time he reaches 100% TP is the same. Hence more dmg overall.
(Due to the nature of the pt, the WARs are clearly spamming rampage, i.e. not wasting TP, so this analysis holds.)

From 2... well more crit = more dmg. Even with slightly lower hi/lo dmg numbers, the NIN's total non-WS melee dmg is higher because he crits more. Whether this is primarily b/c he has higher crit merits or using fudo/senjuinrikio I don't know. But it stands out.

 

[Reality]

Crits + Intelligent WS Gear (and understanding of how damage works) + Attack Speed is the key to winning in a damage parser

when I see war's brag about their damage (on the internet) and I check their gear and see two axes, and little to no haste gear, i chuckle inside, because I know they will *never* outdamage a moderately equipped NIN, regardless of whether or not they *think* they know what a NIN really is

 

[Ithenas]

Crits + Intelligent WS Gear (and understanding of how damage works) + Attack Speed is the key to winning in a damage parser

when I see war's brag about their damage (on the internet) and I check their gear and see two axes, and little to no haste gear, i chuckle inside, because I know they will *never* outdamage a moderately equipped NIN, regardless of whether or not they *think* they know what a NIN really is

the masses are fasinated w/ big numbers....DoT? what's that?

 

[Raivyn]

If you more carefully examine the list though you will see that Peregrine is also seeking PT and the only NIN tank seeking (Hyre was mission oriented) didn't want to PT with his ass.

I assumed as much. "Wah I can't get a pt time to blame somebody else".