Employers and Social Media, a Quandary in Progress.

I can't see why you'd get bad reps :|

I'm going to tackle one example because this is mostly to which I refer.

I'd say it mostly goes back to who exactly is the person we are talking about. If it's somebody fairly high up, or an employee who is seen in the front face of the business a lot then you'd want to keep things fairly conservative. If it's a lower level accountant posting pictures of say...a drag queen show he went to then I don't think it would cause a lot of ruckus.
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it's the lower level accountants I'm referring to.

It's not right for a company to scrutinize every blue collar, low paid or seat filler by what they do on their off time. If they want to blow their cash on strippers and post pics of their party, then that's their business. We cannot live under the thumbs of our jobs. Careers perhaps, depending on whether you really want to live your career or work it. If your boss wants to check out what you do in your off time and doesn't like what he or she sees, to bad so fucking sad, maybe they shouldn't be snooping in on their staffs lives, that in itself is unprofessional.

And as far as your at-will employment, I've never heard of it. We have labour standards that stipulates an employer cannot just can you for no good reason after a 3 month probation. If you question their reasoning and have them investigated they are required to provide a viable reason for the dismissal. Our labour standards act is in place to protect workers from being treated unfairly.
 
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Morcheeba said:
I can't see why you'd get bad reps :|

I'm going to tackle one example because this is mostly to which I refer.



it's the lower level accountants I'm referring to.

It's not right for a company to scrutinize every blue collar, low paid or seat filler by what they do on their off time. If they want to blow their cash on strippers and post pics of their party, then that's their business. We cannot live under the thumbs of our jobs. Careers perhaps, depending on whether you really want to live your career or work it. If your boss wants to check out what you do in your off time and doesn't like what he or she sees, to bad so fucking sad, maybe they shouldn't be snooping in on their staffs lives, that in itself is unprofessional.

And as far as your at-will employment, I've never heard of it. We have labour standards that stipulates an employer cannot just can you for no good reason after a 3 month probation. If you question their reasoning and have them investigated they are required to provide a viable reason for the dismissal. Our labour standards act is in place to protect workers from being treated unfairly.
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The bolded part is extremely important. If someone wants to spend the rest of their life just having "a job" then sure, I can see why they would have this mentality, but that's all they will ever have. If you ever want to have a career, a real profession, then it's not something you turn on at 9am and off at 5pm, Monday through Friday; you live it. It defines you and is just an integral part of your life as your friends, family, lifestyle, etc. Make no mistake either, if you want to have a successful career, regardless of what you do, you're going to have to make some sacrifices, and often times that means sacrificing a bit of your personal life, especially as ultra-competitive as the job market is today.

Everyone has their secrets, I don't think anyone will reasonably argue against that. The point that others and myself are trying to make is that if you're going to keep those secrets and continue to engage in behavior that can create a negative perception of you amongst your employer, peers, and potential clients, then you damn well better be extra careful about protecting those secrets and you better have the balls to deal with any potential negative consequences if your secret(s) ever became not-so-secret. As much as the world likes to shout from the mountain tops that "it's what's on the inside that counts" I think everyone who visits these forums knows that in reality, perception is everything, and that first impressions or even negative impressions have a far greater impact and linger for a much longer period of time.
 
I have always taken issue with the fact that employers look at Facebook or Myspace pages to check up on employees. I think it's a violation of your personal space (much like a credit check since a person can have bad credit for any number of reasons beyond their control), and I think it's one more bullshit way someone who doesn't know you can think they have you pegged. But that's why... and here's the real sticking point for me... people should have their security settings down tight on their social networking pages.

As someone said before, it does come down to common sense, and unfortunately, as a society, we lack it on a gigantic scale. My profile is personal and kept that way for a ton of reasons - Although I have nothing to hide, my life outside work is nobody's business but mine and those I choose to include. I have my friends and family sorted into lists, and quite frankly, no one sees anything that I would not choose for them to see. No one who isn't a friend of mine could even access more than my profile picture if they searched for me. More people need to familiarize themselves with privacy features, and if they don't know what they mean, figure it out. People complain of being stalked, harassed, etc based on what they post but in the end, it's just a simple issue of taking some personal accountability. The whole world doesn't need to know you find your job boring, or if you like to get sloppy drunk and light up more than just a cig on the weekends. If you're the type of person who has to question how your boss would interpret things, then remember that CYA has been a saying for a lot of years. In a social networking world, I hate to break it to ya, but it should now be gospel, not just a suggestion: Cover your ass. They'll look for any excuse nowadays to save a buck, to bring someone on for less who'd be only too happy to have your job. You can't give them a reason, and if you do because you were too lazy to protect yourself, then you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
Valandil said:
Everyone has their secrets, I don't think anyone will reasonably argue against that. The point that others and myself are trying to make is that if you're going to keep those secrets and continue to engage in behavior that can create a negative perception of you amongst your employer, peers, and potential clients, then you damn well better be extra careful about protecting those secrets and you better have the balls to deal with any potential negative consequences if your secret(s) ever became not-so-secret. As much as the world likes to shout from the mountain tops that "it's what's on the inside that counts" I think everyone who visits these forums knows that in reality, perception is everything, and that first impressions or even negative impressions have a far greater impact and linger for a much longer period of time.
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Secrets are just that, secrets. until they are discovered. the point morch is trying to get across is that companies should respect the privacy of their workers, not look for dirt on them. Careers or not it don't matter. yes perception is everything, and IMO that's the problem. Whats on the inside is what counts, because despite what your first impression is, that is what you will really be getting. but its ignored because looking past what you first see takes effort of mind to do, a slowly dying talent i fear. i refer back to Alanon's #2 example. if said person did a good job and does as directed at work there should be no problem. at work and out of work are 2 separate areas and should be treated as such. If you run a business and you learn that your star employee likes to hit strip clubs, does that make said employee bad? do you fire this employee because he/she goes to a place you disapprove of?

new angle: Now how did you find this information? did you hear it from someone? did you see said employee going into a club? did said employee mention it him/herself? option #3 is the fault of the employee for not being discreet. in any of the three cases what does any of this have to do with their work production/ethic? we should all do our own part to keeping our private lives private. But should the secrets, be what they may, get out, what does that say about the character of the individual that A) broadcasted it and/or B)the person that let it slip by not being cautious?
 
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Employers shouldn't be able to use legal, off-hours activity against an employee, but the fact is, they can, and there's no way to stop it. Even if they made a law against it, like they did for holding race, gender and whatnot against an employee, it wouldn't stop anything. All it'd do is add one more item to the list of terminable offenses HR has to lie about. The thought going on in the back of the manager's head when getting rid of an employee never needs to be the one that goes on paper.
 
decades ago it was thought that only white males would rule the nation, and that non-Caucasians and women deserved no rights. "there was way to stop it" was an excuse used back then too. took awhile but things changed. letting a problem sit because "that's just the way it is" is just lazy. if it in the company policy that you cant go shake your ass at TIT'S R' US and you go there then they can fire you. if not they are overstepping their bounds. where i go off of work is the concern of 3 people, me, myself, and i. not the head of HR that doesn't like boobs.
 
Yay for splitting topics, my sinister master plan was a success!

Anyhoo.

Like I said, there's an issue with where the line is drawn here. Where do we draw the line and say "Okay employers, this far, and no farther!"? Eventually we have to, after all, because we really can't give them the right to stalk us all the time, lest they hire company goons to follow you around and make sure that you're not badmouthing your boss or the corporation on your free time.

So. I'm curious here, really. How much access do you think an employer should have to the arguably private lives of its employees?

And for that matter, what do you think should constitute an actionable offense?

Like I said, it's the classic slippery slope argument here. If we say "Well, your Facebook account is insufficiently private to warrant protection, and badmouthing your employer means that they can fire you", then we do leave the door open for more intrusive surveillance of your life, and for more a more liberal approach to canning your ass.

What if Company A decides that they don't want MMO players to work in their corporation, on the grounds that "those people" are less productive, less reliable, and generally fall into the category of "misanthropic troglodytes"?

"But Raes", you say, "that would never happen! Nobody would ever fire someone over something that frivolous!"

To which I will respond with this, from Cheeb's link:
August 27, 2009: Ashley Payne, a Georgia high school teacher, was forced to resign after the local school board came across pictures of her sipping beer and wine. The pictures, which appeared on Payne’s Facebook page, were from a vacation she had taken that summer, which included a trip to the Guinness Brewery in Ireland. Payne was quoted as saying “I did not think that any of this could jeopardize my job because I was just doing what adults do and have drinks on vacation and being responsible about it.” She sued the school district last November. The case is expected to go to trial this fall.
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Pretty fucking frivolous reason to fire someone. Which is probably why she sued, and why she'll probably win said lawsuit.

If we allow that employers can pick pretty much any reason to fire people that they want (and, depending on the circumstances, that is actually possible, though there are at least some legal issues involved most of the time), and we allow that anything posted on the internet is "public", whether we meant it to be or not, then I do believe that all of y'all might have some 'splainin' to do. Since, as I said, chances are each and every one of you can be tracked fairly easily back to your real name, and your real job.
 
I didn’t want to hijack the other thread since it is topic specific, so I’m going to bump this one since the topic came back up again.

There is a debate currently on campus over a student resident adviser who was displaying the confederate flag on his dorm room door. While it was not racially motivated, the flag is often viewed racially. As it is a student employee position, it has no real power, but it is a position of influence.

This is technically an off hours activity, so would you support termination? Should future employers disqualify a person from employment, since this story is now publically available on the Internet?
 
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Hmmm...

It's really a question of intent, when you get right down to it.

I suppose the easiest way to illustrate that would be this:

How would you react if he'd hung a United States flag on his door?
 
Raesvelg said:
It's really a question of intent, when you get right down to it.
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Pretty much this. Unless he's obviously treating minority residents with disdain, it might just be a southern pride deal (ie- Irish Americans displaying the Irish flag)
 
It's a sign of separation within our country and should be outlawed. We, as Americans, have our flag. We have one flag as a country unified. We have two flags as a country divided. That flag should be outlawed all together in my not-so-humble opinion. As for what that flag represents, the flag should be removed. It's simply a matter where you disrupt the ordinance of the dormitory. There's no way speculation won't arise, debate, fights, arguments, and disorder will absolutely run rampant through the halls. It's not good to have that on display for the student body to see, and with that it should be removed.
 
One flag eh?

Tell that to the Native Americans.
 
Yet, that flag wasn't used as the official flag of our civil war. What'dya know? I suppose it's all freedom of speech though.

Excuse me while I get a swastika tattooed on my forehead. I don't approve of what they did, but I do like blond haired, blue eyed women.
 
Kotsu said:
Yet, that flag wasn't used as the official flag of our civil war. What'dya know? I suppose it's all freedom of speech though.

Excuse me while I get a swastika tattooed on my forehead. I don't approve of what they did, but I do like blond haired, blue eyed women.
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Your opinion doesn't matter. I had to eat lunch alone today.
 
Raesvelg said:
Hmmm...

It's really a question of intent, when you get right down to it.

I suppose the easiest way to illustrate that would be this:

How would you react if he'd hung a United States flag on his door?
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Because this involves my employer, I feel it is best if I just remain natural on it and not give my specific view on how I would deal with it. But working where I do, I have seen where students make unwise choses in their public life and online that damage their employment opportunities later. Unfortunately an incident like this will most likly have ramifications on future employment, especially if the person is going into a field that requires security clearance.
 
I'm not so sure you could go as far as to disallow people to proudly hang their flags.

I do see the Confederate flag the same way, it just says 'racist bigot' to me. But I know that to other people it doesn't necessarily hold that same meaning. This could get very touchy.

You can't deny every American citizen the right to show their pride in their heritage whether it be Irish, Japanese, Native Indian or African.

Are you going to ban every flag but the RED WHITE and BLUE? Can't be done. Crazy idea.
 
Morcheeba said:
I'm not so sure you could go as far as to disallow people to proudly hang their flags.

I do see the Confederate flag the same way, it just says 'racist bigot' to me. But I know that to other people it doesn't necessarily hold that same meaning. This could get very touchy.

You can't deny every American citizen the right to show their pride in their heritage whether it be Irish, Japanese, Native Indian or African.

Are you going to ban every flag but the RED WHITE and BLUE? Can't be done. Crazy idea.
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Since some Native Americans and international students find the American flag just as divisive, this situation could have easily involved that flag as well. It created an atmosphere where some felt unwelcomed. I find this situation is a good example of where someone’s off hour activities has an effect on their employer, intended or not.
 
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