Evasion Confusion

[Necrosis]

Evasion is worthless for RDM (D skill) on anything higher than EP.

 

[Osse]

Ok. You've got a number of people answering who generally know what they are talking about. But the question remains, where is the information coming from? Can any of you post links to someone doing gear-swap tests and tallying the results? Trust is all fine and dandy, but I'm a "show me the numbers" kind of guy.

 

[mdkuser]

My info come from my personal experience. This is the only information source I trust 100%.

 

[Stouter]

a lvl 1 may never evade an attack from an HNM, no matter how much evasion gear he has, because his eva skill is just too low, and the HNM's skill/accuracy too high.
a lvl 75 could, theoretically, evade an HNM attack due to his higher evasion skill, even with evasion down gear.

The rate you evade attacks has a floor and a ceiling. Over time you will never evade more than 80% of attacks no matter how high your evasion and how low their accuracy. Conversely, you will never get hit by more than 95% (I think this is the floor) of enemy attacks no matter how high their accuracy and how low your evasion is.

In the end, evasoin skill and evasion are both boosts to how often you evade. The oddball formula thrown out with AGI factored in to how much of an effect your evasion gear gives was a "I wonder if it works this way" thought by a random person that was turned into gospel without any evidence to support it.

Most people will say evasion skill > evasion because that's what they've read. The ultimate source for it was one person's limited parse vs one level of mob with a fairly small shift in evasion skill and a large shift in evasion, due to gear restraints. His finding was that in the small test sample that he did evasion gear was better up to a point, at which time it dropped off dramatically. What he failed to realize was that he was reaching the 80% cap on evasion and skill wouldn't put him past it.

Long story short, if you pile on one or both you will see a dramatic boost in the amount you evade up to a point. As a rdm you'll see best results vs EP-EM mobs, below that you'll cap out fast, above that you'll need a lot to start evading regularly and never reach the cap.

 

[Uzor]

tbh, I think dynamis mobs are around easy prey level with higher HP and higher damage. As a WHM with lower evasion skill then RDM, with evasion merits and genbu's shield, I evade their AoE hits quite often for some reason <.<;

that's something my RDM rarely do though ; ;

 

[mdkuser]

yea they aren't very bad for evasion. I can usually survive with 2-3 on me with my thief, unless its a monk or ranger.

 

[Reko]

Question...

If you stack on all the evasion you can find, then maybe, maybe, you can evade EM's pretty well. With blind on them ofcourse.

But, you could be filling those slots with some way much better gear for your rdm, so just dont.

Your base skill is way to low to bother with it, because anything you will evade well you might aswell just tank with stoneskin.

 

[Vilurum]

Scorpion Harness
+20 HP: Bonus, better than -1% atleast.
Resist Stats: Not worth the space they take up on the equip's description, to be honest.
Accuracy +10: Better than 3, see above.
Evasion +10: Survivability is now factored in, this could mean the difference between evading an attack or not, so it's worth having.

Except for the minor detail that having any negative resist gear on (even if you have other positive resist gear, or barspells, to counter it) practically guarantees that you will not resist that element, even if you're fighting something massively Too Weak. (You can still get oddball resists like you always can, but that's pretty much it.)

In other words, if you wear a Scorpion Harness, do yourself a favor and don't fight any mobs that can paralyze you.

 

[Soujiro]

It's basically another check in the combat formulae.

Evasion Skill vs. Weapon-type Skill
Evasion vs. Accuracy
Dexterity vs. Agility

et cetera, et cetera.

No need for long winded explanations, it really is as simple as Skaw said. If you have low evasion skill, stacking all the evasion+ gear in the game won't benefit you, you are wasting slots if you are fighting anything over DC. As a ninja with a C- Great Katana skill, i can pile on acc in every slot but i'd be stupid to think i am going to be hitting like a samurai with A rank skill. This is also the reason why you don't see paladins wearing evasion+ stuff, they are going to get hit due to low skill level so it serves no purpose to wear that gear.

In my opinion NIN and THF are the only jobs that should bother to equip anything evasion+. Even a monk with B+ evasion and Dodge JA active won't be evading much on anything higher than EM.

 

[Necrosis]

In my opinion NIN and THF are the only jobs that should bother to equip anything evasion+. Even a monk with B+ evasion and Dodge JA active won't be evading much on anything higher than EM.

I'm sure there's mnks here that will argue that.

 

[Uzor]

In my opinion NIN and THF are the only jobs that should bother to equip anything evasion+. Even a monk with B+ evasion and Dodge JA active won't be evading much on anything higher than EM.

Actually, evasion gear for a RDM can be the difference between life and death when soloing as long as you have shadows up. Especially if you solo mobs like Cactrot Rapido. For him you need as much evasion as you can, as much haste/fast cast as you can, and as much -physical damage taken as you can. The goal is to not get hit as you need to tank him straight up. So fast cast while casting stone skin and phalanx, haste and fast cast while casting utsusemi, and evasion while you have shadows up. Otherwise physical damage taken gear in order to prevent him from hitting through your stoneskin. You can get your utsu: ni timer down to around 23-24 sec and utsu: ichi down to about 16

So yes, evasion can indeed be very usefull for RDM.

All mobs that you need to shadow tank straight up, evasion gear is extremely important as long as you have shadows up. However, when shadows are down, physical damage taken reduction is far more important.

 

[Stouter]

How does a rdm/nin solo rapido, poison II?

 

[Mishaela]

How does a rdm/nin solo rapido, poison II?

Thats a good question. Soloing a L80 MNK is a feat in itself, but soloing it when it starts to get TP regen at low HP makes this all but a wonder.

 

[Uzor]

How does a rdm/nin solo rapido, poison II?

Yes. You blink tank him with Poison II only. That way, he doesn't get any TP to use 10,000 needles. Which is also why you need to swap in fast cast for stoneskin and phalanx to drop the cast time to around 42%, and also why you want haste to take the ichi timer to 16 sec and ni timer to 24 sec. Which is also the reason you want as much evasino as possible while you have shadows up, so you don't run out of shadows before the ichi or ni timer is ready.

And to Mish, he don't have any TP regen. Even if he did it wouldn't be much of a problem, as you could chainspell Blizzard III him.

Cactrot Rapido really don't have that much HP. It only takes roughly 20-30 min to solo him.

 

[Ugotjacked]

If I had to take a shot at how evasion works. After getting thief to 75 and screwing around on it its just like Every other skill...

so say you have 269 Evasion skill that is going to give you somewhere areound 269 Evasion just like 269 sword skill gives you roughly 269 acc and attack. ( I know I know stupid .9 on the acc)

Anyways So you have 269 evasion and evasion skill with no gear. Target mob has 269 Sword Skill. So he has roughly 269 acc and 269 skill itself. So you compare those numbers together to get your total evaded attacks. 269 Eva Skill Vs 269 Sword Skill and 269 Eva vs 269 acc(Agility vs Dexterity also fits into that equation). So Evasion Skill+ Gear will be the best for evasion and then evasion + gear is next best then AGI but that is considered to be marginal gain. But to be honest you do have D evasion skill so your chances of evading an attack are gonna be slim even with full evasion set of gear.

I have a question though. Does Phalanx reduce damage taken by a certain percent? How do the actually calculate Phalanx?

Since you already have pretty good defense spells though why dont you just get a peice of armor that might alow you to kill the mob 3% faster instead of taking 3% less dmg.

If Paluwan body gives you +3% criticals (guess) thats like dealing near dbl dmg 3% more of the time so its roughly like making an extra attack 3% of the time killing the faster and less dmg that you will take(-enspell dmg).

Everything is always

(this is all speculation, just made up all those numbers for explanations sake)

 

[Stouter]

Phalanx reduces each hit by a fixed number. It's pretty damn nice vs mobs that hit for less than 50 a pop, vs big stuff it's far from impressive.

 

[Makelith]

Yes. You blink tank him with Poison II only.

Wouldn't you wanna use Bio II more, or paired with poision II? Especially since you want to reduce the damage you are taking. Or would that make you run out of MP?

 

[Stouter]

Poison II gives 0 TP, Bio II gives 10 TP. When he gets 100 TP he can destroy you.

 

[Rappa]

I like to solo cactrot rapido before I go to bed sometimes. Oh wait, that wasn't a euphemism?

 

[Skaw]

Poison II gives 0 TP, Bio II gives 10 TP. When he gets 100 TP he can destroy you.

Yep, just to spell it out for people: All damage initially caused by magic gives 10% HP to monsters, 5% to players. This includes Bio and Dia(assuming Dia doesn't do 0.) Poison, and the elemental DoTs cause no initial damage, so they do not give TP to their target.