"Expanding" Endgame Linkshells

[Tok]

Can we stop with the e-peen contest "My .1% is better than your .1%"? It's kinda silly.

my e-peen is tiny

its like a good thumbs up

kinda discouraging acually

 

[Courtney]

Chance, with a huge sample size, is no longer random. But with a small sample size, it may as well be (example here: 10 dynamis runs in the same area with roughly the same kills).

So doesn't it then make sense to go for the huge sample size by killing as many mobs as possible?

In one run the group with 50 kills can beat the group with 350 kills. In 10 runs they almost certainly can't, and in 100 runs they'll be a very long way behind.

Randomness normalises as the population increases. It's still random, but it's also predictable.

 

[Raesvelg]

One would hope that a solid team of friends would stay together until the end. Life isn't always fair though.

Unless you've already got everything you could ever want for every job you have, and anticipate that SE will release no new gear that you could ever desire, losing out on the points of Dynamis can be difficult for people who do the runs. I don't hold their departure against them, it's not like they left because the wanted their old shells to fail. They just didn't want to fall behind the points tallies of their respective shells generally. In that situation the points are both carrot and stick simultaneously. And, like I said earlier, that's a logical way to run things.

It still sucks though.

 

[Archmage]

I was informed that one of the LS in question mandating their members join thier new dynamis roster and leave thier current dynamis shell is Epitome. Also MaliciousIntent did something similar recently, and their jaunt into dynamis ended in miserable failure leaving those members they forced to leave their existing dynamis shells to join their dynamis ls scrambling to find somewhere else to do dynamis now.

Edit: Additionally I want to say I have no issue with any endgame ls expanding into new arenas, such as a sky/hnm shell doing dynamis, until they require their members to burn bridges behind them and join their newly created dynamis roster their prior commitments be damned.

FuryDynamis, Limitless, and PinCKs are excellent examples of how an existing endgame sky/HNM ls should handle expanding into dynamis. Epitome, MaliciousIntent, and Perserverance are excellent examples of how not to handle such an expansion of ls events.

 

[Jeska]

I joined Fury primarily to experience end game activites such as Sky and have found it to be a strong friendly shell with quite excellent leadership I had no interest in doing dynamus at first and was told it was not manditory there but eventually I was invited to try it out and now I enjoy performing the same challenges in dynamus with the same fine people I do Sky with.

The attraction to be a part of a solid unit of friends is sometimes very hard to pass up, some people may say they are being forced to go to one shell for all their end game needs but really they may find it much more enjoyable than being answerable to multiple shells and leaders.

In the end it is the players own choice where they go and spend their FFXI time with, if a shell attempts to force them to make a choice, well they dont have to continue with that shell either. I'm happy that my shell offers freedom of choice.

 

[Uzor]

Forcing their members to join their new LS, is kind of selfish of the LS. Since the events done are like apples and eggs (yes, I know the saying is apples and oranges, but that doesn't fit here). Keeping the LS's seperate would be much better, and benefit everyone as a whole. Keeping Dynamis points the same as sky points is just retarded.

 

[Quieren]

I've had the same issues with my limbus shell also. I've hadpeople leave to the "my sky shell is starting limbus, and I have to join their's" bs. Yeah I understand the whole keeping the gear in your main end game shell thing, but you've already made a commitment to a set group of individuals. I've had people come back cause their shell failed to get enough to successfully do limbus and want back in.

Lets be honest, the leaders 90% of the time always end up getting first dibs on the better gear anyways, so more or less you can point the finger at them. Thats the only flaw with the whole keep the gear in the ls thing, should be called "You're required to gear up the officers and pets first or you're out" claus. Always puts a smile on my face when the shells force others to do dynamis with them, and want to upgrade a "ls relic." I find that fact utter bs and selfish cause its always a officer, not jsut a vet member. IMO if ya want a relic upgraded bad enough, do it yourself, don't ride on the backs of your shell. If you use a shell to upgrade your relic, wheres the sense of accomplishment in that?

 

[Quieren]

Also, when I was with fury Achates never made anyone join his dynamis part to fury, so kudos to fury in that regard.

 

[Rone]

I lead Epitome and here's my reply to this

#1 When I started this shell was under the spirit of having 1 shell to do all end game events but we started with sky because it was the easiest to schedule etc and needed minimal number of members. It's come to the point where in the small amount of time that our LS has been together we are getting ready to move on to sea/ hnm / dynamis. If anyone has ever lead a event shell they know the headache to get members to show up with the right jobs at the right time. The reason I'm "asking" my members to choose is so we don't have to keep waiting for stragglers who are currently doing other things in this case dynamis with other shells when it's our LS's time for events. I talked to all my members who do dynamis with other shells and I asked them to consider switching because some time in the future we would like to have all members do all end game events with us BUT since there needs to be a transition phase we gave them time to choose and to hopefully give dynamis leaders time to find another person to take they're spot. I stressed that I don't want my members leaving a shell after getting they're items BUT if they leave after a few months warning or so i think it's more than fair that they put in what they got out.

#2 We did not just up and decide to start dynamis we had a sister shell whom we did dynamis with before; but organization and management of the old shell was in shambles therefor we re-structured. And before even asking all our members to switch to dynamis we took a an official poll and majority rule was to have everyone in the shell do all aspects of end game with 1 shell so as to minimize scheduling conflicts. I didn't do this for my ego or whatever u think I'm doing this for. MOST of our members wanted to do things within the shell and as officers and leaders it our responsibility to find a venue that suits most of our members.

#3 I'm sorry for the dynamis leaders who aren't happy with this but that's our my problem. Our responsibility lies with the shell and what the shell wants to accomplish as a whole. As whole MOST of our members have asked us or expressed that we do ALL end game aspects and that is exactly what we intend to do.

#4 The advantages of 1 shell having venues for all events is scheduling BUT the most important part is when a group of players learn to play with each other they learn they're strengths and weaknesses when applied correctly that group can accomplish ALOT in game. Just look at Kaizen or Integral MOST of they're core members have been together for years and they all know how the other plays and that's what makes them so powerfull. With members who know how to play with each other well they can accomplish the same events with fewer people. I use to go with a dynamis shell that had x2 of our current members and the shell ran very poorly because as whole they didn't have the experience of playing together. That is not the case with this LS. Yes we don't have the numbers we would like, that's why we are asking current members to think about switching, BUT with the numbers we do have runs are smoother and faster.

#5 Lastly; in the end the choice lies on the members if they want to stick to they're current dynamis shell that's they're choice and right to do so but our shell has to do what it needs to do to survive and succeed. Our shell isn't for everyone and we understand that. If someone isn't happy they're more than welcome to find somewhere where they feel they belong but as for most of our members our shell is like a family and it's the main reason why some of us even play anymore. This comradery is what keeps us together and pushes us to expand into new aspects of the game.

 

[Rone]

I've had the same issues with my limbus shell also. I've hadpeople leave to the "my sky shell is starting limbus, and I have to join their's" bs. Yeah I understand the whole keeping the gear in your main end game shell thing, but you've already made a commitment to a set group of individuals. I've had people come back cause their shell failed to get enough to successfully do limbus and want back in.

Lets be honest, the leaders 90% of the time always end up getting first dibs on the better gear anyways, so more or less you can point the finger at them. Thats the only flaw with the whole keep the gear in the ls thing, should be called "You're required to gear up the officers and pets first or you're out" claus. Always puts a smile on my face when the shells force others to do dynamis with them, and want to upgrade a "ls relic." I find that fact utter bs and selfish cause its always a officer, not jsut a vet member. IMO if ya want a relic upgraded bad enough, do it yourself, don't ride on the backs of your shell. If you use a shell to upgrade your relic, wheres the sense of accomplishment in that?

This is not how we run our shell everyone has an equal chance of getting items first even before officers and leaders. I can personally say as a leader i wasn't the first to get anything. My members earned it more so they got it first. And no we're not starting a dynamis shell because we want to pimp out officers or leaders first; there was a demand for AFs and for 100cc for the people who would like to upgrade their relics and we are giving them a venue to do so without conflicting with our current schedule.

 

[Aerdrie]

Yup Lit amd and other Fury members backed me up witch is why I said in my first post I love Fury.

 

[Vilurum]

#2 We did not just up and decide to start dynamis we had a sister shell whom we did dynamis with before; but organization and management of the old shell was in shambles therefor we re-structured. And before even asking all our members to switch to dynamis we took a an official poll and majority rule was to have everyone in the shell do all aspects of end game with 1 shell so as to minimize scheduling conflicts. I didn't do this for my ego or whatever u think I'm doing this for. MOST of our members wanted to do things within the shell and as officers and leaders it our responsibility to find a venue that suits most of our members.

#3 I'm sorry for the dynamis leaders who aren't happy with this but that's our my problem. Our responsibility lies with the shell and what the shell wants to accomplish as a whole. As whole MOST of our members have asked us or expressed that we do ALL end game aspects and that is exactly what we intend to do.

What you repeated in those two points was the word "most". Not "all", but "most". Meaning there are some who *don't* want to do it, and your solution should be equitable to them too.

There are several examples in this thread of endgame shells that have connected Dynamis shells where *most* of the people are the same (which, really, is all you were going for), but without causing this whole headache about yanking people from other shells. I'd suggest following their example, because they know from experience, and at this point (since you're only just starting to set this up) you don't.

 

[K. Ishitar]

So lets say dynamis only shells start expanding and adding as well? Would that be a move to "balance" this, i read that this was a dumb idea but why

 

[Mercator]

What's fun is when a ls asks/forces members to participate in other aspects of end game, then breaks a few weeks later. Gogo wasted time, points, and attendance, when the members come crawling back to their previous shells.

 

[Zoolander]

Edit: Additionally I want to say I have no issue with any endgame ls expanding into new arenas, such as a sky/hnm shell doing dynamis, until they require their members to burn bridges behind them and join their newly created dynamis roster their prior commitments be damned.

FuryDynamis, Limitless, and PinCKs are excellent examples of how an existing endgame sky/HNM ls should handle expanding into dynamis. Epitome, MaliciousIntent, and Perserverance are excellent examples of how not to handle such an expansion of ls events.

How so? Because we have a closed dynamis shell? Sorry, but giving points for events is how we do things, and 6 points a week is not shit compared to the points we get overall. But hey, what the hell would I know. Every single person in Perseverance knew we would be doing dynamis many months before hand as well. We didn't just decide to do it on a whim. We never required any person to join, and no, 6 points a week is not going to determine who gets what gear in 90% of the situations. We have plenty of people in other dynamis shells as well that decided to stay with their current shell.

 

[Raesvelg]

I'm not trying to be combative on this thread, but 6 points/week IS a significant amount. Assuming someone puts 15 hours a week into the shell (I'm talking camps and events), which is a not unreasonable number for people that have school/jobs, that's almost HALF their points for the week under the 1 pt/hr formula.

 

[Zoolander]

I'm not trying to be combative on this thread, but 6 points/week IS a significant amount. Assuming someone puts 15 hours a week into the shell (I'm talking camps and events), which is a not unreasonable number for people that have school/jobs, that's almost HALF their points for the week under the 1 pt/hr formula.

People average 100 points or so a month, with some being much higher and some being much lower. Our system is not always a straight up 1 hr = 1 point style, and we do alot of events. But again...what would I know about the LS system I've helped run for the last year. No one has ever complained about the points either, the only problem we've ever encountered was how to fund the runs, and that was with 1-2 people. We give points for every event that is LS run, so obviously dynamis was included.

 

[Jereme]

Pers does a lot of events. A couple months ago when before I decided to take a break from the game for a bit 15 points a week was the person on the low end earning points. I averaged about 50+ points a week. Some events are just set points. Some events aren't under the 1pt/hr formula.

 

[Zerayla]

I stressed that I don't want my members leaving a shell after getting they're items BUT if they leave after a few months warning or so i think it's more than fair that they put in what they got out.

I'd be really interested in knowing when you told your LS you were doing dynamis so that they could "give warning" to their current dynamis LSs. Most I got from any of the members that left that were apart of your shell, was a one day warning.

And regardless, in the end you still screwed over our LS. We had dedicated members that had been with us since day one, and showed up every run and performed their job. I don't get the impression that they were really given a choice where they would not lose out, because again it was expressed how they wanted to stay with our LS.

And like someone else mentioned, I'm sure that the reason that a lot of endgame LSs would add Dynamis to their "events" and find a way to make members give up their commitments to their current dynamis shells, is so that some the leaders can obtain and upgrade relic gear. If you have reliable and good players, of course you'll be able to get what you want.

Gotta love greed eh? Seems to govern this game.

 

[Anaeran]

And like someone else mentioned, I'm sure that the reason that a lot of endgame LSs would add Dynamis to their "events" and find a way to make members give up their commitments to their current dynamis shells, is so that some the leaders can obtain and upgrade relic gear. If you have reliable and good players, of course you'll be able to get what you want.

Gotta love greed eh? Seems to govern this game.

A lot? yes. All? Not quite. There are still some genuine leaders left in FFXI who put team before self I think. Most of them just aren't in the big name LS's you all hear about.

I won't argue with the last line though. Greed def dictates 95% of what goes on in that game.