Fallout 3

Elemmire said:
laziness is a factor in some developers though... Valve has even admitted they don't want to bother with the PS3 based on laziness :P it's why they, themselves, don't develop the versions of anything they make for the PS3... Orange box PS3 was done by EA iirc.
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They said they dont want to put the time and effort into developiong for PS3. Nothing to do with lazy. That has to do with money.

If you dont have enough people with knowledge in working with PS3 technology then you need to make a choice... At the moment we are in trouble finacially in US.

I would expect more people to milk franchises and stop developing for whatever console they have issues developing with. Maybe not stop but continue to have a lower quality product in the end for whichever console.

Show me where a gaming dev said they did not do a good job because they were lazy... You are just labeling them lazy because... You are lazy and thats the easy thing to call them.. lol
 
I look at it another way entirely. Forgetting the whole console-war and finance of cross platform development, you can look at each version as an individual product. Every game needs to have a standard of quality, and for the most part, they do. As a PS3 or 360 owner, we are NOT entitled to have devs make our releases identical, rather they have to be, judged on their own, quality releases. It's mostly idiots who then go in and nitpick which version has a better texture here or there.

Differences are also for the most part, blown WAY out of fucking proportion. Even moreso when reviewers then go in and penalize one version a ridiculous amount, when on its own it's worth more than the score given.

Seriously tho, this game is fun on any platform. It's seriously just damn amazing, and gets better as it goes. The main quest is actually very good, and it feels like there's a cohesive story, not just a shitload of fetch quests like every other open world RPG. It's too bad it had to come out on the same year as MSG4, because any other year it would be my own GOTY.
 
Firestreak said:
I look at it another way entirely. Forgetting the whole console-war and finance of cross platform development, you can look at each version as an individual product. Every game needs to have a standard of quality, and for the most part, they do. As a PS3 or 360 owner, we are NOT entitled to have devs make our releases identical, rather they have to be, judged on their own, quality releases. It's mostly idiots who then go in and nitpick which version has a better texture here or there.

Differences are also for the most part, blown WAY out of fucking proportion. Even moreso when reviewers then go in and penalize one version a ridiculous amount, when on its own it's worth more than the score given.

Seriously tho, this game is fun on any platform. It's seriously just damn amazing, and gets better as it goes. The main quest is actually very good, and it feels like there's a cohesive story, not just a shitload of fetch quests like every other open world RPG. It's too bad it had to come out on the same year as MSG4, because any other year it would be my own GOTY.
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I am suprised you still hold MGS4 that high... Maybe by years end you will not. I forgot about the game to be honest. Played the game only 4 times... First 3 were the complete the game my first time and 4th play was the 3 hour run through. I respect it as the PS3 owners masterpiece tho.

Fallout has been great so far Fire. The only reason the conversation about quality on each console went on so long is because Bethesda was mistaken for a lazy dev... Sorry and back to the regular program.
 
TheOsyris said:
They said they dont want to put the time and effort into developiong for PS3. Nothing to do with lazy. That has to do with money.

If you dont have enough people with knowledge in working with PS3 technology then you need to make a choice... At the moment we are in trouble finacially in US.

I would expect more people to milk franchises and stop developing for whatever console they have issues developing with. Maybe not stop but continue to have a lower quality product in the end for whichever console.

Show me where a gaming dev said they did not do a good job because they were lazy... You are just labeling them lazy because... You are lazy and thats the easy thing to call them.. lol
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you assume I'm lazy :P you have no idea how I am as you don't know me, shouldn't go to name calling of sorts. I say they are lazy because they have admitted themselves they are. Hell, even ones that were developing but now teach at my friend's schools or my own have admitted they would avoid things because it meant more work :P it's just human nature to be lazy, to find the easiest way to do thing. Now, I'm not saying they are ALL lazy, I'm just saying that there's that possibility they were lazy with the PS3 version.

As for GoTY for me.. I have no idea really. Dead Space was a surprisingly awesome game, Fallout 3 is awesome so far (barely anywhere in it, don't have too much time with school work and such), GTA IV was fun but I wouldn't say it's GoTY.. it just wasn't as fun as I was expecting a GTA game to be (more on agreement with Yahtzee and the whole annoying realism can be a bad thing if too much), Mercenaries 2 isn't great so it isn't but it does have that crazy fun factor of just blowing crap up :P LBP, what I played a bit, is just so creatively fun. MGS 4 had an AWESOME story and awesome characters, great music, but did lack enough gameplay compared to cutscenes. It's gonna be a tough year to decide what's the GoTY, Lost Odyssey was also out this year wasn't it? I haven't beaten that completely or played enough but what I did was awesome and the story was great from what I played. :P

And I haven't even gotten to try Fable 2 yet :(
 
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I've gotta say, this game is pretty fun. Experienced no glitches so far.
 
MSG4 has to be taken in context, and no not the, "PS3 needed a big exclusive" sort of thing.

You have to consider the progression of the Metal Gear games, which contain many similarities to other games but are in game play style, their own genre. A lot of things came together perfectly with MGS4-

1. The translation of the game from an pseudo- top down style to a full blown 3D game was something that for most games would seem rather late. The complexity of the game itself made it impossible on earlier hardware generations. The difference however allowed for a far more enjoyable combat, a function that was in earlier games, cumbersome and slower paced.

Bringing the Metal Gear gameplay into full blown 3D improved the mechanics, making it not only fun in a tactical sense, but the combat as well - but at the same time, it increased the complexity of the stealth game play, allowing for players to react better.

In the context of the "Metal Gear" genre, this was a very big leap.

2. The story - it was great, and even the parts that were horrible, were great in a campy sense of it. The cinematic cutscenes were good, and the overall story is something like an over the top anime mixed with a Tom Clancy movie. Somehow it just blended perfectly. It found a way to do three things at once; Conclude a very complex series, work as an individual game and flow perfectly with the gameplay, both integrating into it and being paced well around it. It felt more grown up, like it was trying to be more than we were expecting out of it.

3. The audio and visual quality... audio wise, there is no chance any game comes close. There are other games with great audio, but not like this. The music, the voice acting, the sound quality, the 7.1 surround sound, in every area is unrivaled.

Now personally, I think the video quality is clearly top dog, and until I see Gears 2 on my TV, I'm not going to guarantee it'll look better. It may, but I don't know til I see it for myself. Forgetting all that, consider the video quality and the fact it's actually a pretty damn long game, spanning a lot of terrain and in a lot of different looking areas. I feel like that seperates it some from games like Gears 1, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, ext, that have a somewhat persistent pallette and reuse a lot of textures.

4. The scope. It was just an epic game. I mean, I could go on and just list things that happened that were amazing but since you played it, you know...
 
Firestreak said:
Forgetting all that, consider the video quality and the fact it's actually a pretty damn long game, spanning a lot of terrain and in a lot of different looking areas. I feel like that seperates it some from games like Gears 1, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, ext, that have a somewhat persistent pallette and reuse a lot of textures.

4. The scope. It was just an epic game. I mean, I could go on and just list things that happened that were amazing but since you played it, you know...
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I dunno about its length. The only thing that made it longer than most games made now is how long the damn CS segments are. Much like Xenosaga EP.1 but a little less annoyin'. I blew through the gameplay in no time but watchin' the movies proved to be, by far, the bulk of the game. I enjoyed playin' MGS4 but in the same sense I was just as displeased by it as I had been all the other games in the series after MGS. The story was also a huge cluster-fuck, especially toward the end where you finally meet up with Big Mama. The only portion of this game that will always stand out to me is the music, environment, and battle of the Crying Wolf. I think the game is slightly above average from what we're use to now days but it's nothing more and definitely not GOTY material. Not sayin' I agree with this either, but GoW 2 will probably get GOTY. It's a pity, but I don't think the PS3 has the user base to qualify an exclusive game as GOTY after takin' sales and all of that into consideration. Just my thoughts though.
 
EA just layed off 6% of their staff... Must be because they are lazy eh Elemmire?
 
Maybe someone will do something like this again.
 
Just a thought Osy, I don't know how your gaming habits are, but I tend to assume people play like me until I know contradictory information. Afterall with a sample size of 1(me), I have 100% of the results.

I got a feeling if MGS4 was on Xbox 360 you'd have played it more. Not saying you're biased, rather, I'm gonna say your Xbox 360 is just... on more often.

I think with consoles we just have one in our mind more, and it's just the way that it is. While turning on the PS3 or Xbox 360 physically is exactly the same, when I haven't used my Xbox in little while, it just is less of a routine for me. I'll usually in my head decide to play Playstation, and then from that decide what individual game to play. I don't actively say, "I don't wanna play my Xbox." It's just not on my mind as much. Plenty of my Xbox games got less play than they would have if they were on my PS, cause simply, cause Xbox wasn't on so I'd rather swap discs than swap systems. The community features, and going online with the system itself, rather than individual games, ingrains this further.

I notice this the most with the Wii, I gotta make sure the sensor bar hasn't fallen off the TV... have to find out where the wiimotes are, ext. Turning on my Wii isn't something I consider. Games for Wii I don't pay that much attention to, even though I may be missing ones I'd actually like. I bought Trauma Center, New Blood months ago, and have yet to actually put it in. For all I know, the disc doesn't work, but it's been sitting on my shelf. Doesn't make the Wii worse of a system, or Trauma center worse of a game, just makes me less focused on it.

I think in that realm, you can't deduct too much from MGS4. Also remember you didn't like the previous MGS games, while for a lot of people they were their favorite games. If you can give credit to have much of an improvement 4 is, you can consider for people who love the MGS core gameplay, while it's pretty much going to be impossible for any other game to come close this year.

Also ask yourself, if you got Dead Space for the PS3 instead of 360, how often you'd be playing it. Just things to think about. From a guy who spends too much time thinking about really unimportant things.
 
But yea, on the other topic, I don't think anyone who's actually had a job in their life is going to say that the people who worked on Fallout 3 are lazy. First off consider this, the people who could in theory be lazy are the devs and programmers. Yet the decisions as to allocating manpower is surely done by management. I'm sure all of us at work before have wanted to finish something, but were simply told to move on and do something else, or to go home because they didn't think it was worth paying us to do that. A lot of the times, the management is right, even, because it wouldn't be profitable, but it's never really the guy's call.

Now you can speculate the devs that work there actually are lazy on top of that, and decided to go on smoke breaks and chat with their friends instead of work on the PS3 version, but for the most part from what I hear, working on game development is actually a really hard, grueling, thankless job that doesn't get paid all that well compared to what the devs could be doing in more business oriented work, not to mention it's actually competitive to get into these jobs. It's something they do cause they are gamers themself and enjoy doing their job - which is why they'll work extremely long hours out of dedication.

Now you can say that it's unfair if one console gets less priority than the other. I agree and disagree. It depends on how fair things are going behind the scene.

If a userbase is just not going to buy many copies of a game, no matter how good it is, then a shoddy port just might be in order, because it's that or no port at all. BUT... companies need to remember when it does bomb, that it's their own fault not the consoles. What does piss me off is when you get a BIG game, that'll be a million seller for PS3, and it doesn't get that great of a treatment. Regardless of if the Xbox 360 version is going to sell more, the PS3 version is a big release on its on merit and deserves treatment as such.

What REALLY pisses me off, is when foul play is involved. Not happy when a company comes in and says, "we'll pay you to remove this level" or "feature" or give us the better frame rate or whatever, from the rival's version. For the most part that's an attack on the customers, not the rival company. I hasn't been proved to shift a single unit one way or another, just pisses people off.
 
Elemmire said:
that makes entirely no sense :|
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Its kinda why i mentioned it. Your idea of devs being lazy because the PS3 got a bad port makes no sense. Fire has posted my entire argument, in his words, in his last post and i am done with that now.

And when i say bad port its not like its broken.. It just has more issues then the other versions of the game.
 
How do you check your karma? Is there are bar like there is for rad?
 
didn't they get rid of the karma thing/

And I'm just saying that I do know game developers that are lazy :P even in big companies (maybe not know like great friends but know them and heard them admit it). I didn't even say this was the reason for PS3 port having issues, just saying it's a possibility.
 
One the right hand side where you can check all your stats it will show an Angel or whatever and tell you your Karma is very good or whatever it is.

Well I beat the game accidentally. Didn't realize the quest was the end of the story. No chance at continuing to do quests you haven't accomplished after you have beaten the game. Bummer for me but oh well. All in all great game. Great story great ending. This minor thing pissed me off for a minute but oh well. I just always thought sandbox games would let you play out quests after you beat the main story oh well.
 
Jereme said:
One the right hand side where you can check all your stats it will show an Angel or whatever and tell you your Karma is very good or whatever it is.

Well I beat the game accidentally. Didn't realize the quest was the end of the story. No chance at continuing to do quests you haven't accomplished after you have beaten the game. Bummer for me but oh well. All in all great game. Great story great ending. This minor thing pissed me off for a minute but oh well. I just always thought sandbox games would let you play out quests after you beat the main story oh well.
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That's really disappointing. Especially in a game like this, where the side quests greatly outnumber the amount of main quest line.
 
Can't you just go back to a previous save and do the other quests? >.>
 
Elemmire said:
didn't they get rid of the karma thing/

And I'm just saying that I do know game developers that are lazy :P even in big companies (maybe not know like great friends but know them and heard them admit it). I didn't even say this was the reason for PS3 port having issues, just saying it's a possibility.
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If they're all lazy to some extent, why bother bringing it up? That's like saying they didn't do a good enough job because they wasted too much time sleeping. While it's technically true, it's pointless to mention.
 
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