Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

Skaw said:
Yeah, they need to do something for new players. Give them an incredible Gil Finder trait that disappears once the players hits level 30 or so for the first time. That way they can make a decent amount of gil pretty easily just killing beastmen. Make it so it only affects the first character created, as well.
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Crafting is the theoretical gil making venture for new players because it doesn't require any job levels. Unfortunately squaresoft fucked it up royally making it cost crazy amounts of gil to level crafting levels til when they're profitable. They SHOULD fix it so that low levels can craft without funds to where they can profit but then already high level crafters would go apeshit(not that they wouldn't have been fucked over).
 
i like that how the conversation has shifted to other things once it is exposed that your arguments have been totally annihilated by former OH members.

DRAMA, fun! :D
 
Firestreak said:
Crafting is the theoretical gil making venture for new players because it doesn't require any job levels. Unfortunately squaresoft fucked it up royally making it cost crazy amounts of gil to level crafting levels til when they're profitable. They SHOULD fix it so that low levels can craft without funds to where they can profit but then already high level crafters would go apeshit(not that they wouldn't have been fucked over).
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Square didn't fuck up crafting, the player base did.
 
Tagrineth said:
Square didn't fuck up crafting, the player base did.
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No, square did too. The crafting system in itself just sucks.
 
Necrosis said:
No, square did too. The crafting system in itself just sucks.
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There are some flaws in the crafting system, but the brunt of the problems with crafting is due to the players. The markets are over saturated with crafters; with plenty of players who have increased prices to keep others away and those who lowered prices because they didn't care about not pissing away all of their money just grinding. SE didn't help by introducing cheaper alternatives to some of the big money making synths, but the playerbase was a problem long before SE started introducing those items.
 
The only thing that sucks about the crafting system on Square's end is that to make HQ items we have to saturate the fuck out of the NQ market, which forces NQ item prices down... which conversely pushes HQ prices way up to compensate for the losses from NQ sales.
 
Tagrineth said:
The only thing that sucks about the crafting system on Square's end is that to make HQ items we have to saturate the fuck out of the NQ market, which forces NQ item prices down... which conversely pushes HQ prices way up to compensate for the losses from NQ sales.
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lolamemet mantles
 
By the way, I'd like to propose a simple logical argument.and without arguing sideways attempt to actually dispute this.

Here goes...

Windower, according to numerous, repeated statements of Squaresoft, is a 3rd party program and against their rules.

Flee tools, is a third party program and is actually traceable and people are commonly banned for its use.

Neither are legal, only one is enforcable because only one is detectable.

Neophytal, uses windower, just click on his link in his sig to windower screenshots of himself.

Neophytal violated the rules of FFXI everytime he uses windower.

No where in the ToS is it against the rules to party or be in the same linkshell as people who use third party programs.(In real life there are laws in terms of aiding criminals, this is not the case in FFXI.

Flee hacking is defined as more severe than windower by the QCDN community, never said so by Squaresoft.

Neophytal is a cheater.

Firestreak follows all the rules of FFXI.

Fleehack is other programs considered by QCDN to be more severe than windower are commonly used on other servers, including the most successful and respected(arguably) LS on FFXI period.

By all technical purposes, FFXI would have no ability to give me a warning or temp ban over being affiliated with flee hackers. While they have expressed numerous times windower is against the ToS.

>> Therefore, on a technical level, Neophytal is more guilty in squaresoft's eyes than I am, being that I never have since installing FFXI the day of NA release, broken the terms of service, and Neophytal does every time he logs on.

>>Then on a level of community standards, what community are you talking about? Can you really speak for the community, define what they find acceptable or not acceptable? Have you done any basic research on the matter of what online gamers find acceptable? Is that research verifiable? What was your sample size? Did you include a cross section of all FFXI players? Is your research sample merely your close group of friends you gab with about the issue? Do you consider QCDN representative of the community in general? Do you consider QCDN representative of all FFXI servers on a broader scale? Do you know how those people view friends and shellmates of those who fleehack or merely the ones who do it themself?

Etc, etc, etc. It's always funny when one person comes to the conclusion they speak for everyone. Or if you're going to say you don't have to speak for everyone and have the right to your own views, then what merit does your personal bias have towards me as an invidual as I'm suppose to evaluate myself? If it's only your own personal views, how can you say your views > squaresoft's ToS? But then my views < your views?
 
Bajaratt said:
There are some flaws in the crafting system, but the brunt of the problems with crafting is due to the players. The markets are over saturated with crafters; with plenty of players who have increased prices to keep others away and those who lowered prices because they didn't care about not pissing away all of their money just grinding. SE didn't help by introducing cheaper alternatives to some of the big money making synths, but the playerbase was a problem long before SE started introducing those items.
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The players do what the players always do in MMORPG, attempt to level up their crafting. The system however is setup so players are dependant on OTHER players to get materials needed to skillup, and at high levels, materials that are difficult to get and sometimes limited in possible output furthering increasing the price with competition.

Players should be able to farm for items but with the sheer number of synths needed there needs to be some measure of capping through use the NPCs. Maybe farmed items will skillup faster even but NPCs can at least keep a steady flow of materials into the market AND increase the value of gil by taking it out of the economy. The result would be...players can skillup cheaper and even buy materials from NPCs they'd need to synth gear to sell keeping prices lower and allowing new players to get more competitive gear.

Of course then everyone with 100 crafting quits FF immediately after craft levels become devalued.
 
Firestreak said:
Flee hacking is defined as more severe than windower by the QCDN community, never said so by Squaresoft.
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I don't really feel like dealing with this BS anymore, but this statement kind of caught my eye.

I think Square-Enix's actions speak louder than their words in this case. To be banned for windower, it pretty much requires that it be shoved in Squeenix's face, then maybe a minor ban will be issued, almost on a technicality. Fleetool is taken far more seriously by GM staff, and is more heavily penalized when it is caught, with more effort being placed into investigation.

Even in Square-Enix's eyes, Flee hacking is deemed more severe than windower.

...unless you're one of the shmucks who actually believes they're banning thousands for windower. Lawl.
 
Garvin said:
I don't really feel like dealing with this BS anymore, but this statement kind of caught my eye.

I think Square-Enix's actions speak louder than their words in this case. To be banned for windower, it pretty much requires that it be shoved in Squeenix's face, then maybe a minor ban will be issued, almost on a technicality. Fleetool is taken far more seriously by GM staff, and is more heavily penalized when it is caught, with more effort being placed into investigation.

Even in Square-Enix's eyes, Flee hacking is deemed more severe than windower.

...unless you're one of the shmucks who actually believes they're banning thousands for windower. Lawl.
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They have 2 systems of penalty. 3rd party programs and harrassment.

3rd party programs are...

72 hour ban, permaban.

Harassment is...

Warning, 72 hour ban, permaban.

They don't accumulate, as in, you can do 2 harrassment and 1 3rd party before permaban.

Windower is a 3rd party program. They SAID it's considered a third party program. Over, and over, and over.

The only difference is that windower cannot be detected alone. It's my assumption that anyone who was banned for windower included an add on program they were able to detect(even TP Party is detectable I hear).

You are trying to link undetectability with legality. It's not true. How many times does Squaresoft have to say it's against the rules to drive it through your skull? If you want to use windower and at the same time be judgemental about cheats, I suggest you play a MMORPG with a built in windowered mode. Unfortunately FF is not one of those.
 
Looks to me liek Firestreak is grasping at straws in a very stupid and futile arguement.. I didn't want to post in such a damned retarded topic again but jesus.
You compare Windower.. an alteration to the screen size.. NOTHING MORE... to people botting and fleeing. Seriously shut up and save face now.. all you do is make yourself look stupid of "lolz windower is as bad as RMT!" shit. In all honesty I respected you UNTIL you started this crap.. Now I see you're just another ignorant mass of uselessness on about how you cheated and so everyone who uses windower is one.

Seriously, shut the fuck up. Windower is in EVERY SINGLE WAY harmless.. Botting/Fleeing ruins the game for other ANY TIME it is used.
You fail.
 
You're calling him an idiot, but not grasping what he's really saying. SE calls the shots on what gets banned or not, not the player base.
 
Windy said:
Looks to me liek Firestreak is grasping at straws in a very stupid and futile arguement.. I didn't want to post in such a damned retarded topic again but jesus.
You compare Windower.. an alteration to the screen size.. NOTHING MORE... to people botting and fleeing. Seriously shut up and save face now.. all you do is make yourself look stupid of "lolz windower is as bad as RMT!" shit. In all honesty I respected you UNTIL you started this crap.. Now I see you're just another ignorant mass of uselessness on about how you cheated and so everyone who uses windower is one.

Seriously, shut the fuck up. Windower is in EVERY SINGLE WAY harmless.. Botting/Fleeing ruins the game for other ANY TIME it is used.
You fail.
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If my argument is so limp why are you raving like an idiot instead of trying to refute a single point I made? You can't because I never broke any ToS which puts me in the legit majority(don't kid yourself, if online surveys found half using windower, then windower is in reality a minority) and from your passion on the issue, you're in the cheating minority.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a moral problem against windower, but then I don't consider morality until there's a victim. Morality in an online world has to be looked at differently. In real life when you take a grape from a supermarket, someone is hurt, being the owners of the supermarket. In a game, when you create an item out of thin air the only arguable victim is whoever runs the server - in that they would prefer you get the item the more difficult way and as a result pay for more monthly subscriptions.* FFXI is extreme like that, in that they'd rather make you repeat the same shit over and over again than make new content.

And as far as the question that I skipped a while back, what way is "fun" to be played by me? I don't think most of us do endgame for "fun". We get a kill for fun and then 100 more so all the LS members can get their gear. So if you ask me if I had any fun, I'd say I was bored most of the time and was just happy to farm efficiently so I could move on to new content.** Then I suppose it's easy to judge that when most of your LS finished all the mundane endgame content over a year before you joined it.

*Square's the victim. Yet they're the ones who declare Windower is considered a third party program and consider it cheating.
**The new content was fun, but I should mention I didn't "benefit" as I never ended up getting any of gear I wanted from there. (namely, VIT/AGI/INT torque) All my sea gear is limbus(legit) and obis(soloed).
 
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Arylias said:
You're calling him an idiot, but not grasping what he's really saying. SE calls the shots on what gets banned or not, not the player base.
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Yes, but that is like saying a shoplifter is as bad as a murderer.. I mean shit, they both broke the law!?!
 
Garvin said:
...unless you're one of the shmucks who actually believes they're banning thousands for windower. Lawl.
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/hurray /cheer /joy

'Bout time ya recognized. lol


And yeah they do take it -very- seriously. When WSM called a GM on me, they took immediate action. 72 hour suspension for a first time "offense". The GM even warped me to Mordion's Ghoul while I was fleeing....apparently too fast. ¶_¶
 
Windy said:
Yes, but that is like saying a shoplifter is as bad as a murderer.. I mean shit, they both broke the law!?!
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72 hour warning > permaban.

FFXI rules are not as complex as any modern country's legal system. Get caught using 3rd party program, get a strike. Doesn't matter if it's fish bots or flee tools for example.

And to clarify, it's not like comparing shoplifting to murdering. It's comparing shoplifting to nothing. I'm 100% clean as I never broke any of the game's rules.
 
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ruleslawyers.jpg
 
Windy said:
Seriously, shut the fuck up. Windower is in EVERY SINGLE WAY harmless.. Botting/Fleeing ruins the game for other ANY TIME it is used.
You fail.
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Next time you start the windower, type, without quotes, the "`" or "~" key, then type in "load distance".

You now have an advantage over people who don't use windower. I think this was on by defualt at one point.

---

That said it's obvious why fleetool is "worse" than windower, but fire's right about in se's eyes it's the same. I dare anyone here to call a GM and ask them this question "I can't use the ~ key without having to cut and paste it from notepad, because I get this weird red console thing from the windower, do you know how I can get around it?"

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Anyways, I never even really noticed people cheating in OH until well after I was in OH for over a year. Honestly, when you've been around a group of people for over a year, you're not going to all of a sudden say "you're all cheaters! bye!" to them, you have to deal with it. Personally I think incapacitating monsters is dumb, and ruins the fun of the game in the first place, but the most fun in the game comes from talking to your friends. In any established shell, If 50% of the old members suddenly started fleetooling around, alot of the old members who don't cheat will stay.

Hearing I'm just as bad as them for staying in the linkshell is something you kinda have to live with, or leave your established group of friends for people that may automatically not like you anyways because of association, but really, my zenith mitts, rostrum pumps, and uggalepih pendant, where all gotten before anyone in OH cheated (openly at least).
 
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