Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-
- Thread starter Kyle
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Kyle said:
God dam.... you have balls to start all over again. lol Hope to see you soon ^^
Youre fuckin nuts.Rhaddy said:
I think that people who get all hot and bothered over people using 3rd party programs in ways that don't effect others negatively need to re-examine their priorities in life. It's almost like criticising me for cheating on Grand Theft Auto cause I love to run around murdering people and don't like collecting guns on my own. Just how I see it.
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Firestreak said:
But there's a small difference between playing a single player game like GTA and an MMORPG like FFXI.
OH using fleetools to get through Jailers easily or through Dynamis - Xarcabard extremely easily doesn't affect me in any way, but it's so fucking gay.
There's no way you can complain about people who buy gil but then turn around and say "Well, you're a fool if you hate people who use hacks that don't affect you." because people who buy gil technically don't affect you either.
Tagrineth said:
I don't complain about people who buy gil.
Suks that you got banned godpoing. Some people just like to beat people down to make themself look good. Unless you directly effected someone, thay realy shouldn't care. I'm shur everyone wish thay could run faster to get to sky, it just takes too dang long.
not to hard to restart relic dagger, getting second upgrade finished is pritty easy. its the last 2 that take a long time.
Guess if these banning are a monthing thing, people best be careful, or just stop using programs easaly detected after the first suspention.
Starting a new characture on new account is pritty fun. Especialy when your playing a job you leveled before and know how to play it good.
not to hard to restart relic dagger, getting second upgrade finished is pritty easy. its the last 2 that take a long time.
Guess if these banning are a monthing thing, people best be careful, or just stop using programs easaly detected after the first suspention.
Starting a new characture on new account is pritty fun. Especialy when your playing a job you leveled before and know how to play it good.
G
Garvin
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I hate people who buy gil and people who break the rules.
Protip: The rules say "Characters run at X speed, unless Y or Z, etc."
As long as you are playing a game with others, you are in no way above this.
Tiny effects make ripples, just because you think you're better than everyone else doesn't mean that you are.
Godpoing: If you do return, I hope to never have to read this happening again. Chance for a clean slate and whatnot.
Everyone else who feels they're above playing this game according to their own rules: Quit. Join a game where you can run faster. Join a game where things take less time. Join a game you're capable of playing within the rules, or one you can play at home by yourself if you feel the need to break things.
Just don't play the game I play.
Protip: The rules say "Characters run at X speed, unless Y or Z, etc."
As long as you are playing a game with others, you are in no way above this.
Tiny effects make ripples, just because you think you're better than everyone else doesn't mean that you are.
Godpoing: If you do return, I hope to never have to read this happening again. Chance for a clean slate and whatnot.
Everyone else who feels they're above playing this game according to their own rules: Quit. Join a game where you can run faster. Join a game where things take less time. Join a game you're capable of playing within the rules, or one you can play at home by yourself if you feel the need to break things.
Just don't play the game I play.
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I don't really understand this. Grand theft auto is a game you play by yourself. It doesn't give you an advantage over anyone in your community because you're the only one playing the game.
When you hack in an MMO, you're giving yourself a boost that honest players, who are competing for the same content, don't have. Its the equivalent of bribing a boss to get you that promotion over someone else who may have earned it.
Its cheating. Don't cheat. Don't get banned. Don't be shunned by the community. Pretty simple concept imo.
When you hack in an MMO, you're giving yourself a boost that honest players, who are competing for the same content, don't have. Its the equivalent of bribing a boss to get you that promotion over someone else who may have earned it.
Its cheating. Don't cheat. Don't get banned. Don't be shunned by the community. Pretty simple concept imo.
Courtney said:
That's a fairly ignorant assumption considering my situation that you're apparently completely unaware of.
Anaeran said:
It depends on how you cheat really. If you cheat in a way that negatively affects others or not. The first thing to point out being FF is not Socom. When I play Socom and people cheat, they're cheating to kill me which makes it harder for me. When people cheat in FF to get to spend less time running from point A to B, or to beat some BC it doesn't directly affect me.
What is affected is me, for example, as a highly competitive person perhaps wanting the best gear. If I want to be the best and then someone comes in and cheats to get better stuff than me, or buys 200 mill in gil and buys better gear than me, then I might say I have been screwed over by cheating - but in that instance - if I'm playing GTA3 legit and someone comes in and kills 2 times the cops as me cause they are spamming cheats while they rampage, if I am competitive there I might feel cheated.
There are so many grey areas and so many different perspectives, it's easier to say, "just don't cheat!" On a personal level, I might agree that's good advice, and I don't cheat. But to tell me I must judge OTHERS poorly for cheating is a stretch because I as a gamer since I was 5 years old can't really say I don't sympathize with them. I assume people cheat on FFXI for the same reason I drive around in a tank tearing shit up in the street, for the pure fun of it.
It's kind of like this old philosophical argument from Jean-Parl Sartre. You come to me as an 18 year old man in a country that's just been under attack from war. Also at the same moment your mother is sick and in need of care. You ask me, what's the moral thing to do - Defend your country or care for your mother?
The only answer I can say is to do what feels moral for you, being that the entire concept is based purely on perspective.
As said earlier, you can link gil buying and cheating together being that if you accept cheating you are hypocritical to condemn gil buying. On that vein you could look at it from the other way - that if you don't judge gil buyers harshly the same can be said about cheats. From how I understand it a huge percentage of the player base buys gil, but simultaneously nobody admits it - just as nobody admits to 3rd party programs(til they're gone). What is there to say except that it seems like almost a silent majority came to the same conclusion I did?
Now I think, and I could be wrong, that for most people who are heavily biased against cheats, that this is their first MMORPG. Not trying to insult and say they're nieve or anything, but I've played other games before and they had MORE reason to hate cheaters and there as no antigonism. I played Asheron's Call and they had a server that was all PK, so every player you saw usually tried to kill you, and there were cheats in that game that make FF cheats seem like nothing, and people didn't spend a 20th of the time bitching over it.
So that's my persepctive, that's how I was "raised" so to speak. If nothing else I find it funny how some people can get so offended simply by hearing an opinion that isn't theirs. Reminds me of my sister when you try and talk politics with her and disagree with her opinion. "You don't agree the death penalty is barbaric and should be abolished!??!! I'm offended to hear this!"
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How does this in any way have anything to do with cheating? That's a gray area decision in doing one "moral" thing or a different "moral" thing. A more applicable arguement would be "I need money, do I go get a job or hold up a liquor store?" Honestly, wtf is the point of cheating in FFXI? I always thought that the reason to play a game was for the challenges it throws at you. If you're just in it for the uber gear, and have to cheat to get it, why not just change your dat files to say your onion crap is the uber gear you want, and then quit like you would have anyway when you got that gear?Firestreak said:
Stouter said:
It's a statement about moral perspective. Something may be immoral to you but not immoral to others. Being that you're in the (vocal) majority most people don't even feel the need to make an actual argument. They condemn it based on that the percieved majority condemn it and therefore to them the case is shut. The point of the example was to show that moral choices must come from within not from conformity.
Oh, and technically changing DAT files, just like windower, is cheating.
Oh yes, I'll throw in, it's nice and easy to criticize people for not caring here on QCDN where the general rule of thumb is bash people and consider from their perspective later - but in 3 years of FF endgame I have known of several different cheating incidents involving several different people spread over at least 6 different endgame LS, and how many people actually quit the LS as a result or were kicked from their LSes over it? One guy. So yeah people love to come on QCDN and bitch but nobody in the game actually cares enough to drop their LS over it(although they're more than willing to harrass other LSes over it). I think a good example being Dowzer in HNMParty harrassing people over their LS members using 3rd party hacks. The point being - WTF? I think for some people it's not an actual moral belief they hold it's just an effective smearing tool.
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Even if they cheat when they're all alone or when there's no direct competition, they're still going to reap rewards that others might not have in their situation. If you hack to kill say kirin, and he drops gear, yes it didn't "hurt anybody" but at the same time you are now stronger for the sole reason that you had to cheat to do so. Now if you tried and tried, varied strategies, setups and everything and NOTHING worked; I can see some sympathy towards cheating to just get it done, but at the same time you lose any and all sense of accomplishment(along with any bragging rights) towards your rewards.
The same goes for gilbuying, you're getting tangible benefits without any of the effort required. I can somewhat understand the position of someone who works all the time and doesn't have time to farm and just wants to exp buying a little gil so they can get food and decent gear and such. All of the gil buyers(well, the obvious ones, I'm sure there are some who are like my first example), however, go out and buy tons of gil then blow it all without thinking on all HQ crap and then try to brag about their gear.
If your(figurative, not anyone specifically) linkshell has to resort to cheats, then you didn't actually earn any gear/gil you recieved as a result of whatever you claimed/killed. If you're not willing to actually earn your gear properly, then you really don't deserve it. While I may not suffer any personal harms if someone hacks to kill a jailor or kirin, you can in no way say that you honestly deserved the rewards.
Your GTA example is flawed, in that your cheating in GTA is only for fun(tanks = uber fun, btw), while in XI people do it to reap benefits from their cheating. Cheating only for fun in XI would be the equivalent of .dat changes to your gear; you get to have some fun and stuff looks different and cool, but it has no bearing on gameplay at all; this of course does not apply to things like this where it obviously gives you a benefit over other players. At the point where you're cheating to gain some kind of "tangible" reward is where people draw the line. I don't think many people care too much about fleehacking to avoid paying chocobo fees, but fleehacking to kite something or botting to claim is well past that line.
You're trying to shroud cheaters in moral ambiguity; but strangely that never seems to work in the real world where a psycho kills people because he honestly thinks he's right to do so.
The same goes for gilbuying, you're getting tangible benefits without any of the effort required. I can somewhat understand the position of someone who works all the time and doesn't have time to farm and just wants to exp buying a little gil so they can get food and decent gear and such. All of the gil buyers(well, the obvious ones, I'm sure there are some who are like my first example), however, go out and buy tons of gil then blow it all without thinking on all HQ crap and then try to brag about their gear.
If your(figurative, not anyone specifically) linkshell has to resort to cheats, then you didn't actually earn any gear/gil you recieved as a result of whatever you claimed/killed. If you're not willing to actually earn your gear properly, then you really don't deserve it. While I may not suffer any personal harms if someone hacks to kill a jailor or kirin, you can in no way say that you honestly deserved the rewards.
Your GTA example is flawed, in that your cheating in GTA is only for fun(tanks = uber fun, btw), while in XI people do it to reap benefits from their cheating. Cheating only for fun in XI would be the equivalent of .dat changes to your gear; you get to have some fun and stuff looks different and cool, but it has no bearing on gameplay at all; this of course does not apply to things like this where it obviously gives you a benefit over other players. At the point where you're cheating to gain some kind of "tangible" reward is where people draw the line. I don't think many people care too much about fleehacking to avoid paying chocobo fees, but fleehacking to kite something or botting to claim is well past that line.
You're trying to shroud cheaters in moral ambiguity; but strangely that never seems to work in the real world where a psycho kills people because he honestly thinks he's right to do so.
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Yes, but your example is two choices which can both easily be viewed as the right thing to do. Cheating vs not cheating, that's not the same thing. A more fair example would be "Do I park in the handicapped spot even though I'm not handicapped?" Yes you can toss in several what if's, and say it's not immoral, but you're not going to convince anyone that it's a moral thing to do.
And my point about the dat files was just get your gear via cheating that involves nobody else, then quit.
And my point about the dat files was just get your gear via cheating that involves nobody else, then quit.
Bajaratt said:
People cheat in GTA3 for the very same reason they cheat in FFXI. They are trying to turn the game into what they're prefer it to be.
I think all of us have problems with FFXI. I wish I spent less time running everywhere. I wish I could seek as multiple jobs at once. I wish I could automatically skill up my SMN magic without being there. Most of you all wish FFXI was windowed. Most people wish gil was easier to get.
When I play GTA3 I wish I had infinite ammo, I wish I could replenish my health with the wave of a few buttons. I wish I could drive around in a tank whenever I wanted. To cheat is the alter the game in such a fashion that I can have the greatest amount of fun by playing the game as I prefer it.
What people do incorrectly is specify which cheats are ok and not ok based on which are detectable and enforcable. Windowers is not a "cheat" really because we supposedely can't be caught doing it. Just like you're not speeding driving on the highway 10 Miles over the limit cause you won't be pulled over.
Morality I believe only comes into play when how you play affects others directly, therefore I don't see the difference between altering a 1 player game or online RPG to have the most fun you can assuming in neither case you directly hurt someone.
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Garvin
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It seems you still don't comprehend "cheating" vs "violation of terms of service", and "ingame" vs "out of game" advantages.Firestreak said:
Yeah. That makes them fucking tools who are no better. People are hypocrites half the time, and I don't really respect people who tolerate it, especially when they're certain of it.Firestreak said:
Garvin said:
Cheating is cheating, bub. Don't argue semantics, argue that there are different kinds of cheats.
I think people aren't hypocrite(although many are) as much as people are just plain silenced. We all know so many tolerate it yet I'm the only one actually willing to explain why I just plainly don't give a shit.