Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

[Firestreak]

Actually if that weight lifter actively competes in contests and such (which in my opinion would make him an athlete, otherwise he's just someone who "works out"), then he is hurting his fellow athletes.

You're taking the same stance as Squaresoft, by them saying windower is against the rules because by having windower you can potentially use third party programs. You say all third party programs hurt people because you can potentially hurt people with them. What's wrong is actually doing it not having the potential.

 

[Firestreak]

Firestreak I respect your opinion and you have well thought out points I respect that. But to say people who speak out strongly against cheaters are first time MMO players is wrong.

I can't stand cheaters and I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online was beta and thats the first MMO Ive beta tested and played AC EQ WoW and a few others to name a few. I will agree with you other MMOs have cheats that make FF look like childs play but that doesnt make th eones used here any less severe.

Players have a desire to shape a game to what they want it to be an din a single player game thats fine. But in an MMO you play in someone else's sandbox by thier rules and if you can not respect thier rules then you should be ready to accept any actions taken against you.

in an MMO if you can do something that a normal player can not through normal game mechanics its cheating no matter what moral arument is placed on it.

Not so much of a blanket statement as a general thought that as you agree it's very tame in FF comparatively and FF doesn't even have the PKing of those other games - and what's funny is that even on other servers all their endgame LSes use cheats. It almost seems like QCDN is a little island seperate from the general online gaming community, even quite often its own server.

 

[Sandria]

Firestreak I respect your opinion and you have well thought out points I respect that. But to say people who speak out strongly against cheaters are first time MMO players is wrong.

I can't stand cheaters and I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online was beta and thats the first MMO Ive beta tested and played AC EQ WoW and a few others to name a few. I will agree with you other MMOs have cheats that make FF look like childs play but that doesnt make th eones used here any less severe.

Players have a desire to shape a game to what they want it to be an din a single player game thats fine. But in an MMO you play in someone else's sandbox by thier rules and if you can not respect thier rules then you should be ready to accept any actions taken against you.

in an MMO if you can do something that a normal player can not through normal game mechanics its cheating no matter what moral arument is placed on it.

I played on several servers of UO and I am not sure if you were simply naive to some of the third party programs available or were simply playing in a different generation of players. I forget the year that I played.

2nd or 3rd week that I had been playing I was recommended the option of buying in game currency to catch up with my fellow player base. Of which I declined-- yet, that same player was of integrity even despite his suggestions that would be otherwise scorned in this game. Ebay covered nearly everything that a player could want out of that game. Currency, castles, land, characters, crafting materials, weapons, rare gear, etc.

UO's website supports advanced characters, their authorized third party software, and various other perks to give them the upperhand in monitoring just what their playerbase is using and leaving the player more sattisfied.

Did that stop people from using non-autorized tools? Nope. Cannot recall a single person that I played with that didn't have a boat tool. Most who've played UO would most likely be familiar with boat botting. Irony of UO verses here is it was only a problem if you were basically unattending your bot. Can't count how many times I "Accidently fell asleep" with it running only to come back to maxed skills on my character. Did any of this hurt any other players? Absolutely not. I suppose once could dig and say they do.

In fact, I think that game was actually more enjoyable due to the fact it did not have the same stigmas as this one does. O'well.. different game type.

Personally, I don't care if someone buys gil, uses windower, asssist. Does the fact that I am against flee tools and claim bots make me a hypocrite? Depends on the individual's perspective. My theory is if it doesn't directly affect me than what another player does is not my concern. Churning out equipments via flee hacking can only indirectly affect me by raising the bar of equipment expectations unless I am present. In which case it directly effects me and my time, but alas, if the stigma is removed and everyone was given these tools and made them as wide spread as windower.. would the issue be the same? Doubtful. Having come from UO where you could warp to just about anywhere at any given time and then coming to this game is quite an eye opening experience. FFXI, honestly, would be more enjoyable if warp tools were pre-dominate within the community.

Its no longer an unfair advantage if everyone has the same advantage.

 

[Aerdrie]

Sandra I was a senior counsler on Great lake I worked with the GMs on a daily basis I am well aware of the tools players were using and I am glad to see UO using punkbuster to stop it. I busted cheaters daily in UO so i know exactly what went on in that game

In fact i know more about what goes on behind the scenes in UO than most do

UO has a UOPro program its supports 3rd party apps that DO NOT ive you any advantage a player without them can have. I belive you are refering to UOA ( UOassist) that program does nothing you couldnt set up a macro for. programs like UOloop and UOE and other scripting asoftwere is not allowed and bannable i know i jailed many a player for it

 

[Kire]

Sandra I was a senior counsler on Great lake I worked with the GMs on a daily basis I am well aware of the tools players were using and I am glad to see UO using punkbuster to stop it. I busted cheaters daily in UO so i know exactly what went on in that game

In fact i know more about what goes on behind the scenes in UO than most do

UO has a UOPro program its supports 3rd party apps that DO NOT ive you any advantage a player without them can have. I belive you are refering to UOA ( UOassist) that program does nothing you couldnt set up a macro for. programs like UOloop and UOE and other scripting asoftwere is not allowed and bannable i know i jailed many a player for it

you talking like a bot, what if the person bots but is at PC so all they have to do is answer if you make a call etc as then its not botting they could do it just to lazy to hit ctrl+i scroll etc or something like a say a ffxi fish bot

 

[Courtney]

Not so much of a blanket statement as a general thought that as you agree it's very tame in FF comparatively and FF doesn't even have the PKing of those other games - and what's funny is that even on other servers all their endgame LSes use cheats. It almost seems like QCDN is a little island seperate from the general online gaming community, even quite often its own server.

And the scary thing is that you seem to think that is a good thing. There are a number of servers that you have to hack to play end game. It is a requirement. I'm really glad that this isn't one of them.

Of course, you've personally benefitted hugely from hacking in the past, so I don't think it's surprising which side of the fence you're on.

 

[Sandria]

Sandra I was a senior counsler on Great lake I worked with the GMs on a daily basis I am well aware of the tools players were using and I am glad to see UO using punkbuster to stop it. I busted cheaters daily in UO so i know exactly what went on in that game

In fact i know more about what goes on behind the scenes in UO than most do

UO has a UOPro program its supports 3rd party apps that DO NOT ive you any advantage a player without them can have. I belive you are refering to UOA ( UOassist) that program does nothing you couldnt set up a macro for. programs like UOloop and UOE and other scripting asoftwere is not allowed and bannable i know i jailed many a player for it

My intention wasn't to offend. I was simply picking up the vibes that you might not have realized how wide spread certain things were in that game. "Cheats" if you will that honestly failed to cause other players harm.

That's always been the gray area for me in MMO's. One side they are very individualistic. Loot bots to me that were dominate in that one place outside of Umbra bothered me, boat tools did not. I would boldly go as far as saying that 'Sandria' is my character to do as I will. If I went to the extent of purchasing Gil it would fail to to honestly effect you nor would it in UO. Only reason why it is such a major gray area in this game verses there is due to the fact there is a Gil Selling Ring Opperation here. Did you have them there? Yes, although you also had individuals (Crafters/minors) selling it as well. I remember walking into one house with million gold checks stacked to the ceiling. There had to have been a billion easily on display. Crazy.

I have plenty of room to believe that SE is in a silent partnership with IGE. People get so outraged by these "Gilsellers." Biggest irony had always been to me that for them being so completely gimp in their gear choices they were killing things with less manpower, more organized, and teaching the rest of the player base at the same time. They proved time and time again that all those "leet" items that you were cursing them over that you really didn't need it all the while. The want, desire, and need for said items was raised by your fellow player base. Never ending cycle to keep you playing longer.

Not that I have room to talk.

 

[Necrosis]

And the scary thing is that you seem to think that is a good thing. There are a number of servers that you have to hack to play end game. It is a requirement. I'm really glad that this isn't one of them.

lol, that's funny.

 

[Firestreak]

And the scary thing is that you seem to think that is a good thing. There are a number of servers that you have to hack to play end game. It is a requirement. I'm really glad that this isn't one of them.

Of course, you've personally benefitted hugely from hacking in the past, so I don't think it's surprising which side of the fence you're on.

Oh tell me oh knowledgable one, how I personally benefited from hacking.

 

[Euphacent]

There are way too many grapevine accusations in this thread.

 

[Trippyhippy]

Firestreak is a lot of things. A cheater isn't one of them.

 

[Aerdrie]

Agreed Sandria its crazy in UO houses and gold sells still the thing is unlike FF UO allows for so much solo content that most of the gold sellers there dont really interupt normal players from making money. So I agree with yuo theres alot of grey areas i think the way an MMO is set up effects that.

BTW i still have 2 accounts open on UO every once in a while drop in to see what folks are doing or get on my PvPer and rack up more counts. ^^

 

[Courtney]

Oh tell me oh knowledgable one, how I personally benefited from hacking.

Your LS fleehacked it's way through Dynamis, through Sky, through BCNMs, through HNMs, and you received absolutely no gear or gil from them?

You even came here claiming that you weren't even aware that they were doing it (even though there was a video of them running around like roadrunners on steriods), and even when you became aware, that there wasn't any problem with the tactics.

You expect anyone to believe that you just passed on your share of the loot, out of the goodness of your heart?

 

[Stouter]

There are way too many grapevine accusations in this thread.

There's no such thing, they always make for good reading.

 

[Firestreak]

Your LS fleehacked it's way through Dynamis, through Sky, through BCNMs, through HNMs, and you received absolutely no gear or gil from them?

You even came here claiming that you weren't even aware that they were doing it (even though there was a video of them running around like roadrunners on steriods), and even when you became aware, that there wasn't any problem with the tactics.

You expect anyone to believe that you just passed on your share of the loot, out of the goodness of your heart?

There was a video showing a member flee hacking, and look closely who's not present in that video.

Firestreak.

I said I didn't judge people over hacking, I don't look into hacking, I never claimed I was some unaware boob.

Alternatively, before anything questionable even began I already had my sky gear, I never got any HNM gear, I never got any sea torques,(just solo sea stuff and limbus), half of my Dynamis gear I got over a year ago and the other half I got well after the accused had been banned/quit.

So you can believe whatever the hell you want, but I've never benefited from any hacks personally and to be honest they've caused me quite a bit of personal distress.

I'm a BLM, I sit in the back, I hit macros, I don't watch what's going on. I can be aware of who's alive and who's dead, if the mob is in range or not. I don't follow kiters around, I don't control the flow of the battle - I stun when I see something bad on my chat macro and I watch for TP reports so I can magic burst.

If you want to push me on the matter, I wasn't stupid. I didn't know the specifics cause I didn't wish to know the specifics, and I played on my PS2 because I wasn't interested in being drawned into any of it. It was my LS, I didn't see anyone being hurt and to be honest I'd rather be in the presence of people who'd bend the rules than in the presence of people who are overly judgemental.

 

[Courtney]

If you want to push me on the matter, I wasn't stupid. I didn't know the specifics cause I didn't wish to know the specifics, and I played on my PS2 because I wasn't interested in being drawned into any of it. It was my LS, I didn't see anyone being hurt and to be honest I'd rather be in the presence of people who'd bend the rules than in the presence of people who are overly judgemental.

And I'd rather play in the presence of people who weren't either too unskilled, or too lazy to be able to participate in the endgame without having to resort to hacking. I guess it all comes down to perspective, doesn't it.

 

[Firestreak]

And I'd rather play in the presence of people who weren't either too unskilled, or too lazy to be able to participate in the endgame without having to resort to hacking. I guess it all comes down to perspective, doesn't it.

Yeah, I have your perspective. Your perspective is that you're better than me. Your perspective is that you can go through a long list of potential cheats and select what you think is ok and what you think isn't ok and not only hold other people to that standard, but expect people who aren't you to hold others to that standard.

My perspective is that I ask myself quite often if what I'm doing is going to in some way hurt another person. Sometimes I'll hurt a person unintentionally. Sometimes I'm not aware of all the consequences of my actions. It's an ideal not perfect in practice but as good as I can think of.

Of course I'm human so sometimes my judgement isn't perfect. Sometimes my anger will cause me to hurt people, but that's most people. It's not the ideal I hold but just me as person making a mistake.

Simplified, it's just simply - that's my morality: Do onto others as you would have them onto you.

Now what I'm looking at is a person sitting there with I'm assuming the regular "legit" cheats, lecturing me, a person who's never cheated(by Squaresoft's definition even), never bought gil, never even talked to a GM, going off on me with an air of superiority. Simply because my views are different than yours and your tolerance for other's viewpoints are about nil.

The hell with that.

 

[Courtney]

Where exactly have i claimed to be superior to you or anyone else?

I claimed that the people in your shell used hacks. Well they admitted to that. Like everyone else here, noone really knew until the video was posted, and your hackers started freely admitting it.

I claim that they used fleehacking to win because EITHER they were unskilled or lazy. If it's neither of these, please enlighten me.

You're the one with the holier than thou attitude that what ever "Firestreak" is ok is fine, and anyone that disagrees with you is being judgemental. You said earlier about morality being a personal choice, but now me disagreeing with you is unacceptable.

To hell with you, and your hacker friends.

 

[Firestreak]

Where exactly have i claimed to be superior to you or anyone else?

I claimed that the people in your shell used hacks. Well they admitted to that. Like everyone else here, noone really knew until the video was posted, and your hackers started freely admitting it.

I claim that they used fleehacking to win because EITHER they were unskilled or lazy. If it's neither of these, please enlighten me.

You're the one with the holier than thou attitude that what ever "Firestreak" is ok is fine, and anyone that disagrees with you is being judgemental. You said earlier about morality being a personal choice, but now me disagreeing with you is unacceptable.

To hell with you, and your hacker friends.

I believe people use hacks because they are trying to modify the game to be the way they'd prefer it to be.

I'm pretty sure as of the end when we killed all the level 2 jailers seconds and third rounds through that we did anything we did legitly, so to say we were unskilled would be a stretch since we were skilled enough to do it without any cheats.

Then as far as laziness is concerned I am just not sure I understand. If you mean to get to camp and back I'd say that seems like impatience more than laziness. While those may be impatient acts, the people accused are patient people as far as I've noticed, willing to sit for hours at camp or spend 10+ hour Ulli camp sessions.

By the way, let's see what you've claimed...

-That people in my former shell used hacks. (Although you assumed that the hacks were used far far more often than I believe they in reality were.)
-That my set of beliefs are simply justification for them.
-That you consider yourself superior.(*implied)

As far as opinion. You're more than entitled. But you know what I didn't do. I didn't judge YOUR opinion. But then you're not judging me for cheating. You're judging me, for not judging others! That's not saying you have the right to your opinion and I have the right to mine. You've ALWAYS had the right to your opinion, and you joined your shell, and you picked your friends, and I didn't judge you for THAT. I didn't judge you for having opinions that differ from mine. I criticize you for telling me what my priorities have to be when I decide if I'm willing to tolerate others.

*The post that I responded to contained the following text:
"And I'd rather play in the presence of people who weren't either too unskilled, or too lazy to be able to participate in the endgame without having to resort to hacking. I guess it all comes down to perspective, doesn't it."
This was your only thing present, so I'm not taking anything out of context here. When you respond to me with simply "I did this, instead of you." And then gesture about perspective towards me sarcastically, you are expressing an implied statement of "My LS is better than your LS." It's not a direct statement but it's a very obvious implication, so let's not dance around it, we both know what you meant.

 

[Garvin]

First thing's first. Tolerating and benefiting in any way from something is just a step below participating in it yourself.

And you know what? I'll go ahead and say it.
I am superior to people who hack (or people who participate in RMT, scam others, etc for that matter.)

Everyone else? They are my peers. Equal to, if not better than me. At the end of the day, these people will be playing alongside me within the rules, and will not be banned.

Yeah. I AM judging you for not judging others. I AM judging your opinion. So what? Judge mine for all I care. Our minds are made up. My opinion is formed, and I don't tend to sway from it unlike a lot of people. Yours is, as well. We're never going to see eye to eye on this, and I expect as much respect from you as I'm giving.