Forgive Student Loans To Stimulate The Economy

Elemmire

Red Mage Extraordinaire
Adventurer
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
10,286
Main Job
RedMage-Female
Secondary Job
Dragoon-Female
Third Job
Paladin-Female
Server
Quetzalcoatl
Linkshell
TheNameless
FFXI
Elemmire
http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=1463361

An interesting petition (these internet petitions never seem to work though) and one I support mostly cause I have student loans of my own, but that makes me realize how biased I am and not sure if I can accurately say this should be done. I see the logic in it, but I see my own stake in it more and, well, ya.

Thoughts? :P
 
Nothing stimulates a bad economy quite like giving money away after more than doubling our national debt, right? It's almost like we recently lost our credit score as a country because of a problem with the debt ceiling, and despite that Obama still wants to spend more money.

To those of you who voted for this guy and his cabinet, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Hopefully America learns from this 4 year mistake and doesn't go out on a limb like this again. Though I realize most of you people are *shutter* democrats; this isn't about what party you're from. This guys socialistic beliefs are doing more harm then good.
 
cause 8 years of Bush and Republicans was great for our economy!!! Oh wait...

seriously, both sides suck -_- And Obama is not socialist lol. Have you seen how much he's sided with the Republicans? My god....

Also, this

316413_2307831330090_1078505717_2521289_315280013_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Job creation doesn't come from saying, "we're going to create jobs, here's a bill for it." It can, but as Obama has proven, it's not the best way to go about it, because when it fails (which is often case) it cost drastically and is most often unrecoverable both in funds and worth (gains). If you take care of the other things negatively impacting the economy, properly, jobs will follow. I always get a little worked up when people ask for "job creation" like it's something that can be created in and of itself to a level desirable, it is not.

Also, forgiving loans is stupid. People not being able to pay loans, or just flat out not paying them, has contributed greatly to our current economic status.
 
Last edited:
If you come out of school and are unable to find employment you qualify for deferment on your student loans for up to three years. If you find employment but it is low paying, you may qualify for deferment or forbearance.

While not open to everyone, I believe you can join the military and have your student loans deferred then use the GI Bill to pay them off; certain majors (teachers and doctors primarily) and public services jobs can have their loans forgiven, but a lot of this has changed in the last few years, so if anyone is considering it, you should look into it.

Ask yourself this, in three to four years when I complete my new degree (assuming I kick myself in the ass to do it), how do you feel about being asked to pay for it?
 
The "jobs" bills havn't done anything because it was never designed to create jobs, it was designed to launder taxpayer money to special interest groups, unions, and democrat campaign coffers.


^^^^^^^^^
People like this moron are the reason the current democrat party is a freaking joke.


and yeah what a great world we live in, where you can get a huge loan, and if you just run from it long enough, you never have to pay it back, yeah that totally makes sense. I'm sure more loan defaults will really help the economy. what a great idea.


Oh, and bush never put forth a "jobs" bill because... wait for it.. THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CREATE JOBS! Democrats never seem to get that tho.

Point at bush all you want, but obama took what could have been a normal cyclical recession and turned it into a full on disaster. not to mention democrats had 2 years in congress before Obama was elected to completely FUCK the housing market, republicans tried very hard to get democrats to reign in fannie mae/freddie mac, but nooo, every family has to own a home, even if they cant afford to pay for it. to think otherwise it totally racist. good work there barney frank.

And Obama is not socialist lol. Have you seen how much he's sided with the Republicans? My god....

Also I'd like some of what your smoking please. must be some good stuff.
 
Last edited:
Call me crazy, but if you can't afford to pay off your student loans shouldn't you be more responsible with your debt management and go to a less expensive school? All men are created equal, but after creation we're certainly not equal. It's asinine to believe that, or even want that. I work my ass off every day, I refuse to be equal with people beneath me. Sound arrogant? You're god damn right it's arrogant. I work. I work hard. It's bad enough I need to pay for most of these leeches to live off of the government, as well as pay for a government making decisions that I don't agree with. If you're telling me now I gotta pay off these people's school loans then you're high off your ass.. If you're telling me these people can go to Ohio State for an education because they want a university experience, rather than community college which is what they actually can afford? Jesus christ, it's this mentality of everyone gets something for nothing and everyone deserves to have everything that got us in this mess in the first place. Giving low income families loans for homes that are way higher than they can truthfully afford.

It's mind boggling how the current people in office and/or congress fail to learn from their mistakes or the mistakes of others. I'm very perturbed that our generation and the generations to come after us will have to pay for their fuck ups.
 
Its because the current democrats have a completely different definition for "equality"

Our founding fathers saw equality as equal treatment under the law, and a judicial system blind to race religion and economic status. our bizzaroo world democrats define equality as equal stuff in everyone's homes and equal income.

When they see one rich person and one poor person they see a injustice just based on the fact that ones rich and ones not,

Even if the rich person dedicated themselves in school, went to collage, and spent 20+ years working for one company climbing their way up the corporate ladder, and the poor person dropped out of high school, had kids before they were 20.

As Reagan expertly put it

"We have so many people who can not see a fat man standing beside a thin man without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one."
 
Last edited:
The most horrifying thing I've seen all month was one of the photos in the "We are the 99%" tumblr file.

It was a girl, and while I forget the full wording of her complaint, the core part of it boiled down to this: "Went $35,000 into debt for a useless Bachelor's degree. Going back to school for another $25,000 for a B.A. in graphic design" or some such.

There's a phrase for this.

"Throwing good money after bad."

See also; definition of insanity.

Student loan forgiveness (which Obama is already trying to arrange, in a fashion that will inevitably soak the government for millions of dollars wasted on B.A.s) isn't the answer. The answer is to find some means of convincing future generations that a degree with no marketable value is a degree with no marketable value. You're vastly better off going to trade school than you are going and getting a Bachelor of the Arts in practically anything. It may appeal to your artistic instincts, but there's no sense going tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a degree that you can't immediately see a need and a use for.
 
If I ever have kids they are not getting student loans. They either need to join the military or be good at sports.
 
There's technically nothing wrong with taking out student loans... so long as you can be reasonably confident of your ability to get a good paying job in order to repay them.

It's no fun going massively into debt to get your MD. But you've also got a good chance of being able to pay it back without excess hardship, and it's pretty much smooth sailing after that.

$60,000 in debt for a couple B.A.s in useless shit, on the other hand... Moderately retarded.
 
You're vastly better off going to trade school than you are going and getting a Bachelor of the Arts in practically anything.

So true. About the only reasonable field in which I can think of a BA being on par with a B.S. is in Economics or any other field closely linked to Mathematics. Where the B.S. side is calculus heavy, while the B.A. side is statistics heavy (which is more important for Economics). That said, even between the two the line is ridiculously fine since the only real difference in the end is one path requires calculus 2 and the other advanced statistics/econometrics. Around here it's pretty common for people to call B.A.s, especially in Marketing, Music, Art, etc., "MRS. Degrees" meaning, people are only going to school to find someone to take care of them.

Anyway, more on the topic of loans; it's not so much the loans that are a big issue, in fact they are usually really good loans. The problem is more of a lifestyle or status issue. Some families can afford to send little Susie to Harvard for all 4 years, or John to Auburn for his 4 years, but it's never a good idea. The first two years of college can be done very cheap in most any community college, even the best of them. People don't even have to take classes strictly at the C.C., just their basics. This saves thousands, in my case about $10,000. Taking basic courses at a University is most often always a waste, College Algebra is College Algebra, the only difference is the bill being paid. Simply put, more people need to be spending less on their education. "You get what you pay for" should be thoroughly looked past in this area (basic courses).

Another big thing people need to pick up on doing is creating college funds for their children. There is no reason in the world to not do this, even if the parent/s are dirt poor. If a parent wants their kid to go to college, they need to set up some sort of financial plan for it, even if it's a crappy little savings account that likely wont grow to be much over $2-3K, every little bit helps. Personally, I'm in my late twenties, I'm finishing up school, and I do not want children. I've never thought having a child would be fun, ever. That said, I do enjoy having sex. So I've always thought the day might arise when either I have a child by mistake, or change my ways and decide I'd love to get married and start a family. I know for certain that if I do have a child, I want that child to be able to be successful, that means college, unless of course I give birth to a little Steve Jobs or Oprah. So at 20 I set up a financial plan for a child I may or may not have. That said, it isn't one of those Gerber College Fund type deals or anything like that, it's just a very simple minimal risk investment plan (if I do have a child I'll invest more heavily in it). If it turns out I never have kids and say I enter retirement, BAM, a little additive to my pension, win win.

Anyway, my point is this: There are ways to help the future of our human capital, and restructuring the student loans market and expunging current loans (which hurts the future) is not the answer. Much like job creation, this can't be done through "bills" and laws, it comes from the government working on their end to fix the parts they're responsible for and society fixing our parts. When those two things are working in tandem, correctly, making the right decisions, both will prosper. As for people with current student loans that are crushing them, nothing should be done. If you make a bad choice, you have to pay for it. I hate to say it, but they should have put more thought into their plans and possibly even been more realistic in their outlook of entering the job market. Just like Jose Mendez of $35,000 a year at Joe's Construction in 2005 gettin' his sub-prime on at WAMU for his $125,000 house, choices are made and consequences should follow.
 
Last edited:
If I ever have kids they are not getting student loans. They either need to join the military or be good at sports.

Or get a menial job at a college/university and have them pay for it. Like me.
 
The problem, TG, is that while a B.A. in something like graphic design, or web design, or pretty much any artistic endeavor might look good on your resume, and somewhat increase your likelihood of getting a job in that field, it's far from guaranteed. It does increase your marketability, but most of the people I know with degrees of that nature are perpetually unemployed, or working completely unrelated jobs in an attempt to get by, waiting for "the job".

In artistic fields, talent is usually vastly more important than credentials, barring the occasional advantage of getting your foot in the door. It's like getting your B.A. in English; you might have a higher chance of getting some tech writing jobs, but chances are you could just as easily lose out there to someone who's more talented than you are anyway. And if you don't have a talent for writing, your chances of becoming a published author are pretty damn slim.

Unless your name is Stephen King and you made a deal with the fucking devil. Seriously, how does that man keep getting published...

Edit: And, again, if you can afford it, there's no reason not to pursue your artistic goals or whatever if that's what makes you happy. But if you're going tens of thousands of dollars into debt to get there, you might want to seriously reconsider that objective if you don't have a reasonable plan of paying that kind of money back.
 
Last edited:


This is interesting.
 
Ok, this is a topic that's pretty close to my heart, but I'll try to keep it civil.

Forgiving student loans would be a *vastly* better use of the stimulus type money that they keep giving out. Just think of all of those professionals out there that are struggling to make ends meet because of student loan payments each month? How much more can they then afford to put into spending. I don't really agree with that kind of hand out in general, but if they are gonna use that money for something, this would be a better direction.

My real issue with college loans is this, they are artificially inflated for tuition bills that far exceed the cost of what you're getting. Also, while they quite legally give you all the information required by law, few actually explain to the student what taking a loan really means. Imagine (or remember in many cases) being that wide eyed 17 or 18 year old asked to sign off on these loans so that you can do what everyone tells you needs to be done to succeed. You think "man that's great, I can't afford it now but when I get my degree, I'm sure to make a killing and pay it back no problem". And for many, that's not a big deal. But what about the millions of people out there who couldn't finish their degree for many reasons, illness, death of a family member, or any number of unforeseeable circumstances that might lead to being unable to complete a degree and enter the workforce making what they promised you would? They still have to pay back those loans. Forbearance's and deferments are limited. And under no circumstances can college debt be forgiven currently. Student loans and child support are the only two protected debts when it comes to bankruptcy. So no matter what, they'll get their money back, even if it means garnishing your wages, which if you aren't paying your loans, are probably already so low that you can barely afford to feed yourself.

What about the flat out bullshitting that colleges give on their advertising? "We have a 95% recruitment rate" "With a degree in electrical engineering, you will start out making 75,000 per year!" etc etc. One of my best friends graduated from Temple University with almost 60 thousand dollars in debt and a mechanical engineering degree. He is quite brilliant and a hard worker with a great resume. He's been laid off a few times because the firms can't keep afloat themselves let alone give experience to a fresh out of college kid, and while they did have him, he got paid not much a year over what a full time retail employee makes. Entry level is shit, I understand, but the base income does not correspond to the monthly payment for the student loans. He's struggling harder than I am without a degree.

I'm just tired of the education system in this country. It's one of the primary reasons the country is declining if you ask me. Kids are graduating high school dumber and dumber, with less marketable skills than ever before. And those same kids are being told, not asked, to sign on the dotted line into tens of thousands of dollars in college debt with the promise that when they come out the other side, they will have bucketloads of money to pay it back with. Nobody sits down with these kids and says "listen, just remember by taking these loans, you will have to pay x every month back" and that amount x is growing every year. A 10 year loan (common term for student loans, especially private ones) means 100 dollars a month per thousand borrowed when you factor in the interest rates and whatever fees they want to compound in there. So just think of that projected income, cut it almost in half of what they promised you the companies are paying, and then subtract between 300 and 700 dollars per month from that, and you get what you have to live on. Think it's fair? Ok, now sign here.

Edit: Also, if you want some more reading on the subject, one of my favorite sites on it is http://studentloanbubble.com/
 
Last edited:
That video... was utterly bizarre.

There are some valid points contained within it, but they're so horribly intertwined with a bunch of apocalyptic ultra-conservative rhetoric that I can't really recommend anyone watch it.

Mostly I can strip out the valid points right here:

1.) Government meddling in student loan financing has done a great deal to fuel the rapid and sustained rise in tuition prices.
2.) Colleges have done their part as well, investing their income poorly, often on expensive boondoggles with the goal of increasing student enrollment.
3.) A college degree is not an automatic gateway to success, and going massively into debt with the expectation of being able to pay it back easily is a mistake that a lot of college students are making.

The rest of it is, as I said, mostly apocalyptic ravings about the imminent collapse of the United States. Poorly researched for the most part, based on radically flawed assumptions for the most part, and generally not worth the trouble of watching.

Raesvelg gives it two thumbs down. p(><)p
 
Last edited:
Forgiving student loans would be a *vastly* better use of the stimulus type money that they keep giving out. Just think of all of those professionals out there that are struggling to make ends meet because of student loan payments each month? How much more can they then afford to put into spending. I don't really agree with that kind of hand out in general, but if they are gonna use that money for something, this would be a better direction.

Forgiving a student loan means taking a dump on the organization that financed it, the bank that issued it, the institute that accepted it, and the general public (not in their entirety) who make student loans possible (especially those who didn't/can't go to college or went and paid their dues). Furthermore, it takes all of the money paid, sent rather, out of that loan, from tuition to salaries, and turns good money to bad money, creating yet another void to fill. Loans are not ever forgiven, they are "forgiven." The only person who benefits is the borrower, and that's just not right.

There is not a single bit of difference between Mr./Mrs. College Student taking out a $60K school loan than Mr. Low Income taking out a $200k home loan if it turns out the student can't pay it back properly.

All that said, it does suck, royally, but "forgiving", outright, is not the answer. I would wholly support, though, a fee based leniency. Leave the principle alone, leave the interest rates alone, both past and future, and trim the fat. If ABC Student Loans is charging, say, $100 per week/month that the loan is not paid back in full, stop charging the fees now. I'd even go so far as to say take the total amount of all those types of fees from the time the student graduated college until now and wipe them out. Something like that. I was thinking also cut some of the interest rate stuff out/down, but then, other than getting out of debt, there is no incentive to paying it off in any sort of timely manner.
 
Last edited:
That video... was utterly bizarre.

There are some valid points contained within it, but they're so horribly intertwined with a bunch of apocalyptic ultra-conservative rhetoric that I can't really recommend anyone watch it.

Mostly I can strip out the valid points right here:

1.) Government meddling in student loan financing has done a great deal to fuel the rapid and sustained rise in tuition prices.
2.) Colleges have done their part as well, investing their income poorly, often on expensive boondoggles with the goal of increasing student enrollment.
3.) A college degree is not an automatic gateway to success, and going massively into debt with the expectation of being able to pay it back easily is a mistake that a lot of college students are making.

The rest of it is, as I said, mostly apocalyptic ravings about the imminent collapse of the United States. Poorly researched for the most part, based on radically flawed assumptions for the most part, and generally not worth the trouble of watching.

Raesvelg gives it two thumbs down. p(><)p

I said it was interesting :P never said it was great soo ya. Figured it'd be fair to show more stuffs. And those three points are valid so yar.
 
Ultimately I suppose my problem with Obama's student loan policy is that it practically encourages people to waste the government's money. Capping repayment at 10% of discretionary income, and automatic forgiveness after 20 years sounds nice, but discretionary income is basically the money you don't actively need to spend on things like rent, food, car payments, etc.
 
Back
Top