Fourth Division Mace

[Skaw]

Yes. You used BLM sub as another reason why Seveneyes is good. However, that is not a reason, as Seveneyes and BLM sub are just as useful without one another. They're 1005 independent of each other.

No shit. I was stating how a White Mage with Black Mage sub(being the norm and all) and Seveneyes is going to see far more activation of their Conserve MP than a Red Mage/Scholar/Bard/whatever subbing White Mage/Ninja, whatever, and simply wielding a Seveneyes.

edit: for better understanding, the auto refresh from Noble's Tunic is independent from the Auto Refresh from SMN SJ. Noble's Tunic will give you just as much MP back, with or without SMN sub.

Except 32% Conserve MP is going to give you back a better total MP than 7% over every cast you've ever made, simply due to it working more. Sure, when it does work, what you get back is the same, no matter how much Conserve MP+ you have, but thats a completely different subject. How often != How much.

Infact, How often > How much here.

 

[Uzor]

Yes, but that information is unnecessary, as it in no way proves how useful Seveneyes is.

And personally, I find SMN sub way more useful then BLM sub, but to each their own, and that's a whole different argument itself

 

[Skaw]

Yes, but that information is unnecessary, as it in no way proves how useful Seveneyes is.

And personally, I find SMN sub way more useful then BLM sub, but to each their own, and that's a whole different argument itself

And how is it not useful? It's like saying Brutal Earring isn't useful, because it's not as strong as the Double Attack trait itself. Or Suppanomimi isn't useful because it's not as strong as the Dual Wield trait itself(obviously, but hypothetically if you could dual wield with it.)

You're gaining the trait(no matter how small of an effect,) for spells that would otherwise see no useful boost in any aspect in the first place.

I guess a better example would be Rajas Ring. You could either go 5 Attack or 5 Accuracy in the same slot using Assailants and Sniper's/Woodsmans, so it meets you mid way, but you gain 5 Store TP and 5 Subtle Blow, where normally, you'd have none.

 

[Uzor]

No, I'm saying your BLM information isn't useful. We're talking about whether seveneyes is useful. As I mentioned before, that will always activate the same number of times. BLM sub itself has nothing to do with the situation, as we're talking about the weapon, not the weapon and the SJ. The question was whether Seveneyes is useful, not Seveneyes AND BLM sub, as BLM sub will activate the exact same number of times with or without Seveneyes.

Thus, you need to think about Seveneyes by itself, without any other job traits or equipment. Its the very same thing as testing a single piece of equipment, such as MAB+4. You use that piece by itself, naked, without any outside variables that can affect the results. You don't stack on MAB+100 and then try it out, and go "Wow, this MAB+4 piece is awesome! It increases my damage by 1000!"

 

[Skaw]

No, I'm saying your BLM information isn't useful. We're talking about whether seveneyes is useful. As I mentioned before, that will always activate the same number of times. BLM sub itself has nothing to do with the situation, as we're talking about the weapon, not the weapon and the SJ. The question was whether Seveneyes is useful, not Seveneyes AND BLM sub, as BLM sub will activate the exact same number of times with or without Seveneyes.

Thus, you need to think about Seveneyes by itself, without any other job traits or equipment. Its the very same thing as testing a single piece of equipment, such as MAB+4. You use that piece by itself, naked, without any outside variables that can affect the results. You don't stack on MAB+100 and then try it out, and go "Wow, this MAB+4 piece is awesome! It increases my damage by 1000!"

No crap, and I didn't say otherwise.

 

[Uzor]

But you are. You're using BLM as an argument. Because it activates more often with BLM sub then without. Hell, you even used "How often > How much" as an argument. But that's completely irrelevant, since BLM sub is not Seveneyes. The topic is Seveneyes, not Seveneyes AND BLM sub.

 

[Skaw]

But you are. You're using BLM as an argument. Because it activates more often with BLM sub then without. Hell, you even used "How often > How much" as an argument. But that's completely irrelevant, since BLM sub is not Seveneyes. The topic is Seveneyes, not Seveneyes AND BLM sub.

And Red Mage isn't the only job able to use the club, but I don't see you harping on your butt buddy for talking like it is.

Also, how is a topic about an item void from a talking about the item and the jobs that can use it and their combinations?

I only brought up BLM sub, because enhancing what you have is never a bad thing. Going from nothing to a 1/14 chance is great. Going from 1/4 chance to 1/3 is good. The actual effects seen between having it and not having it are as important as already having it and building upon it.

 

[Uzor]

And Red Mage isn't the only job able to use the club, but I don't see you harping on your butt buddy for talking like it is.

Also, how is a topic about an item void from a talking about the item and the jobs that can use it and their combinations?

I only brought up BLM sub, because enhancing what you have is never a bad thing. Going from nothing to a 1/14 chance is great. Going from 1/4 chance to 1/3 is good. The actual effects seen between having it and not having it are as important as already having it and building upon it.

Please do quote me saying where RDM is the only job able to use the club. I've also never acted like it is, as I've mentioned AT LEAST 2 times in this very thread that its almost useless to RDM and BLM, but serves a greater purpose to WHM. Pchan haven't acted like RDM is the only job that can use it as well. He simply mentioned it from a RDM's perspective.

Also, it is an irrelevant argument because we're talking about the club. The club itself gives a minor benefit. A grand total of 2,8 MP saved per 100 MP MP spent with the club equipped. How much Conserve MP saves from BLM sub is completely irrelevant, as it doesn't in any way show how the club is more useful.

 

[Neisan]

Cool, Something to help max my convert ratio even more.


Carry on, nothing to see here.


EDIT: Even if it's use is only with somewhat worthwhile /blm, it's still a use for Rdm (same with subjob latent items). Whether it's worth the slot is the question.