Fuck Yeah Crappy Leaders: A message to Dezvoltare

[Ryou]

Good job Zyc disappearing for two months with the entire LS bank and not having the balls to pass on leadership, much less find good leaders.

Good job Rey inspiring the LS to pull through hard times with such inspiring words like "I just want to have fun until FFXIV" and "We have a ToD thread? I never check the website"

Good job Dalk being a completely self absorbed sponsor canceling Day 7 camps for Bastok runs with 14 people even though Dynamis was an optional event.

You were broken by a shell of nothings cropped up only with NASA because of your lack of will and the idiocy of these three stellar examples of good leadership.

 

[Rappa]

If someone vanishes with your ls bank for a while, just start up a new one. It's not hard to make gil in this game, especially with an ls full of people willing to put time into doing stuff. An ls leader can't run a Dynamis-Bastok with 14 people unless those 14 people willingly chose to go to dynamis instead of the day 7 hnm camp. Their hands weren't tied. If your ls was dumb enough allow someone who isn't interested in the game and who doesn't check the forums to be in charge, shame on everyone in the ls. Your flame should be directed at your entire linkshell, yourself included, for being willing to follow idiocy.

 

[Raesvelg]

GTFO my forums Gred.

On a thread-related note, I find this... unsurprising, given the general level of complaints I've heard about Dez leadership from people who were in the shell at one time or another.

 

[Psylentcuda]

LOL Gred you sure did stay in the shell pretty long. And you tried to burn points right before you left. The only problem was the shell didn't require its members to play all the time. And why post this now? You've been gone for months now.

 

[Psylentcuda]

If someone vanishes with your ls bank for a while, just start up a new one. It's not hard to make gil in this game, especially with an ls full of people willing to put time into doing stuff. An ls leader can't run a Dynamis-Bastok with 14 people unless those 14 people willingly chose to go to dynamis instead of the day 7 hnm camp. Their hands weren't tied. If your ls was dumb enough allow someone who isn't interested in the game and who doesn't check the forums to be in charge, shame on everyone in the ls. Your flame should be directed at your entire linkshell, yourself included, for being willing to follow idiocy.

He exaggerates the numbers. Dynamis was about the only thing the shell kept to schedule on and that's partially because of the scheduling on the site.

 

[Dejavu]

That was actually what i was wondering when i read this.. isnt this all old news what made it get posted now?

 

[Ryou]

GTFO my forums Gred.

On a thread-related note, I find this... unsurprising, given the general level of complaints I've heard about Dez leadership from people who were in the shell at one time or another.

Bust some more rolls and it's back to the mines for you Galka!

LOL Gred you sure did stay in the shell pretty long. And you tried to burn points right before you left. The only problem was the shell didn't require its members to play all the time. And why post this now? You've been gone for months now.

As retarded as it was Dez had no competition and was relatively successful before Absolution, which drew me in. Then when the bare level of competition that Absolution brought revealed the true weakness of the shell I was still in the lead for my N-Legs. Of course I would try to salvage it instead of just wasting all that effort I had put in for my points.

Same with trying to cash out. I earned all those points and I had a right to recompense for my time. That shell deserved to die for Zycipher's idiocy and if depriving the bank by cashing in hard earned points sped that up, no skin off my back. I owed no one in that shell anything and I don't feel bad at all trying to get that Osode before I transferred.

If someone vanishes with your ls bank for a while, just start up a new one. It's not hard to make gil in this game, especially with an ls full of people willing to put time into doing stuff.

But that's exactly the point. A bunch of lazy sacks not there to run events, and when the bank doesn't even off payouts and when we can't cash our points for AH items like we are supposed to, what incentive is there to attend?

Yes everyone in that shell should have been more driven, and I told them all they were pathetic multiple times myself. But it all could have been averted had the leaders been competent and given any sort of structure to the shell.

An ls leader can't run a Dynamis-Bastok with 14 people unless those 14 people willingly chose to go to dynamis instead of the day 7 hnm camp. Their hands weren't tied.

When he tells then "Don't go to Aery come to Bastok" it influences the outcome. Sure they could have all said "Fuck you you're retarded" but I didn't expect that much from sheep. I blame the shepherds.

If your ls was dumb enough allow someone who isn't interested in the game and who doesn't check the forums to be in charge, shame on everyone in the ls. Your flame should be directed at your entire linkshell, yourself included, for being willing to follow idiocy.

Zyc only chose sacks that would side with him or be loyal to him no matter how much he fucked up. Even the most casual of our players thought that I should be allowed to lead, but Zyc was of the opinion he would rather let the shell die than let me take any part in leading it because I had the balls to call him a moron when he wasted mules trying to low man Odin (causing one wipe and one bare win with 30 seconds left)

At the end I stayed in hopes I could somehow salvage the time I had already invested, not because I had any ounce of respect for the sacks (as players or leaders)

 

[Orinna]

Zyc only chose sacks that would side with him or be loyal to him no matter how much he fucked up. Even the most casual of our players thought that I should be allowed to lead, but Zyc was of the opinion he would rather let the shell die than let me take any part in leading it because I had the balls to call him a moron when he wasted mules trying to low man Odin (causing one wipe and one bare win with 30 seconds left)

You had the balls to call your leader a moron so he didn't give you a leadership position. Calling people names doesn't make you a good leader either. Seems to me that you wouldn't have made a good leader either. There are some great ways to lead, and to show leadership potential. That is not one of them.

 

[Dowzer]

Finally you got em, grats on the nlegs.

I don't know about that Orinna. It wasn't just a name, it's what happened with the shell as a result. He's not the person to falsely accuse others. He had every right to display his opinion of our quality leadership.

Gred would have ruled with an iron fist and that is exactly what the shell needed. Too many people were playing casually and AFK/ignoring members and leaders when we would ask them to come camp. In most HNM shells, that's an automatic removal from the shell, however in Dez even sacks were playing the AFK game.

You're not in the Aery? Fine, you'll get another pearl if you show up. That's how Gred would have ran events.

Hellstorm left the shell on the most honest terms because he plain and simply had enough of their lack of will. He wanted to camp Faf on a late night and for the leaders left in charge, that was out of the question. It was just me him and maybe Gred sitting in the Aery waiting for everyone to show up, then the leaders said we won't even camp that night. I should've left the shell then too.

I don't blame Zyc for his absence but it drove me nuts how the leaders in place handled things. Rey is a nice guy and all but give me a break, like you said he didn't use the forums and wouldn't let Gred take lead. He wouldn't let Gred take lead because of his leadership skills, but because he didn't get along with him on a personal level. Way to think for your team there bud, truely the man who was the most loyal to Zyc.

We needed more members desperately and they never openly recruited. Yet they did recruit for Dynamis members by shouting in Whitegate. After Dalk got his relic we didn't do anymore runs or actively recruit. Salvage was the next target and we had enough people, even though we couldn't accomplish anything. On another occasion during an LS event, he even logged out as we were killing an NM before enterring the Beadeaux SCNM. Bres is right around the corner and took maybe 10 min to kill. You gotta wake up early for work? What are you doin playin that late anyway if that was the case.

Meanwhile, there were members like me, who camped KV with the help of new members like Icewolf and his friend. Hellstorm and his brother Snowfox were usually the first to show up and Zyc was always good at getting everyone to gather. We got a few claims and eventually a helm dropped...and went to an older member who rarely logged on. I stopped camping and guess what, we didn't kill KV ever again. It was nice to see Khrnos sit out there after I did, but nothing ever came of that.

Regarding Beadeaux, I farmed half of our sets solo and then one night when we wanted to do the SCNM, people who weren't interested in those items threw a hissy fit about helping.

Gred pissed off Rey enough for him to get Zyc to logon. Before that, everytime Gred wasn't online, they'd talk about how they'd never let Gred take lead. Yet he was the one who consistantly showed up to the Aery - to the point where even Absolution noticed he was more active than anyone else. Chocobits was kicked by Zyc when he told him about his problems with the current leaders and how Gred's suited for the position.

People who didn't want Gred to take lead were the type who would rather sit, chat and exp grind lowbie jobs. Rey tried to keep the shell afloat by camping Sky. It was great until we had 2 Kirin pop sets...but they wanted to keep farming because 16 apparently isn't enough to kill Kirin.

I offered my help from past experience in burning Kirin 8 times without any trouble at all. I arranged the jobs that we had and we weren't short any. We had a KCDRK and my OCDRK, even without us it was more than enough. They were literally afraid of Kirin. LOL

Instead of finding a casual linkshell, they turned Dez into one. Those who had enough of their three ring circus left to do their own thing.

It's never really been brought up publicly because it doesn't matter. What's done is done. It was hard for our group of casual players to continue camping against people who aren't casual at all. I thanked them for pulling through that time with a few claims, which eventually got me a hecatomb cap.

It's just sad because we had potential for much, much more than that. Our own leaders held us back until the point of disbanding the shell or quitting the game.

I was offered a sack during the time they said no to Gred. I had no intentions of leading, I had just co-lead a sky LS and it really burned me out. Yet they wouldn't give him a sack when he was the ONLY ONE who really wanted to lead.

Needless to say, my LS profile speaks pretty clearly. I don't want any LS after that ordeal.

 

[Ryou]

You had the balls to call your leader a moron so he didn't give you a leadership position. Calling people names doesn't make you a good leader either. Seems to me that you wouldn't have made a good leader either. There are some great ways to lead, and to show leadership potential. That is not one of them.

I don't think being a good sack requires babying people or saying bad decisions were smart in order to sooth a bad shellholder's ego.

 

[Psylentcuda]

No both of you are ill-informed. We'll start from the beginning.

Dez started as a merge between 2 sky linkshells in 06. Both at the time were only killing the 4 mini gods but didn't have the member base for Kirins. Rone was the leader and Zyc and Fang were his sack holders. The shell did well in sky and owned everything it wanted to do. Dynamis was soon to follow. Always went good, but sold the currency to fund the runs because there were no upgraders to sponsor.

Fast forward to mid 07. Sea and Limbus were added to the events by now and Rone's activity was gone. Zyc was asked to take the lead by members and by Rone. He accepted and events carried on. After that, Zyc was asked by several members mainly headed by myself to start camping HNM. We didn't really start until the end of the year. KB was the main target. Then Fafnir. Soon Tiamat, Cerb, and Khim were added. The shell soon found out doing 24 hr HNM wasn't easy for a group on only NA players. Players like myself, dalk, fang, khrnos, and zyc were always changing our lifestyles around HNM. After a while we got burned out because it was a group of 4-8 people that would constantly be on and camping. There wasn't the depth that most HNM shells have to just run through members and the members who were older had joined when it was just scheduled events. We couldn't kick them because then no one would be in shell.

~~Sidenote~~
Zyc knew some of the players in the shell were bad, but what do you do? Boot them and then have no one to do anything? Recruiting was shit because everyone wanted to join Kaizen or Integral or they were complete fuck ups already.

People got burned out. The ls forced Zyc to upgrade an Aegis pretty much. He was content to just sell the coins. Zyc couldn't put any responsibility on a couple of the sacks because he had never done it before when the shell was just an event shell (Imagine someone who never lead anything trying to get people the right jobs for a rush to Tiamat). Scwall and Gred both came in on the heels of the prime time and no one really wanted anything to do with it.

No one wanted Gred to lead because he was an ass to people. The game was for fun for 80% of the shell but he was all about business. People would have quit. Zyc knew that, Rey knew that. It was have the shell die then or have the shell die when the final few members of the core group didn't want to camp anymore.

Another thing. Don't think I'm defending Dez or throwing Gred or Scwall under the bus. My personality is about if something sucks make it better. I stayed with the shell knowing most of the comments on the flameboard about the shell were true, but defended them because I was in the group. I always strove for something better and I tried to inspire that in the shell... Unfortunately most who were in the shell know it came across as bitching and screaming. In the end I wasn't able to help the shell become that "better shell" others would aspire to be in before I took a break and came back to no shell.

 

[Dowzer]

Exactly about the past Psy but you're wrong about the present. We saw how many claims you were getting before the packet bots arrived. You guys were very active and succesfull even when you and a few other core members were away.

That attracted us and honestly I thought Abs would fall like PP/Epic/etc.

I never would have applied if I knew the shell would stop camping a few months after I joined. Luckily it wasn't a total waste of time for me but I can't say the same for others.

See your new post there, Gred did the same on another level. I have no clue how you tried to because I wasn't there until you came back after shit hit the fan. Some thought he was an ass and they had every right to. However, he had every right to complain and those same people wouldn't hear him.

Like you said, it came off as bitching and screaming. Gred did the same thing, whether it came off as bitching, it was all an arguement that came to the same scenario: He was the second best to Zyc at getting people to camp. You weren't there. He was camping Faf damn near every day and got people to show up. So much that core members came along a lot more often than before. I tried to show up just as often knowing I was next for a lot of items, I put in my time but I had no intention of being a burned out leader. The fact remains, Gred wasn't burned out and he still isn't.

Those people should have left the shell, like Achzeir did, to check out their own interests to level other jobs and such. Whether that would break Dez or not, it would have been the right thing to do.

Maybe if you had stuck around there could have been an understanding of what needed to be done. It's actually better that you took your break though, it's something they all should've done too. Not a jab at you at all, you knew when to call it quits.

I made the choice to disband Rawr for a very similar reason. I was burned out and I talked with members oftenly about who might be willing to perform duties like attendance, points, gems and stones. I tried to do it all myself in the summer and it was a train wreck, Jussy and Misi helped me out a lot with duties and running Gods/Kirin/farming but after the summer I enterred a training program for cabinet making. Jussy started his pharmacutical program and Aaleel announced he was quitting the game.

That left Misi to track a lot of the attendance, while I half hazardly tracked points, gems, stones and lead the group through farming. We burned a few more and got Starks and Misi their wlegs. No one else wanted to lead and while I felt bad for disbanding Rawr, it was the right thing to do. I could have kept recruiting but by that time we became a revolving door LS, gearing people and watching them leave. Our core was tired of that.

Dez looked tired too, they should've closed recruitment far before I joined.

 

[Grandphoenix]

sounds like how BoL went down lol

 

[Psylentcuda]

No Dowz I knew what was about to happen. At the point I decided to leave Snowfox, Hells, Gred, Myself, Zyc, and Dalk were the runs running the mules, running to anything that popped. Zyc got his shield and I instantly saw his play drop off. Then Dalk was next on the throne for a relic and I had spent time the past few years with him. But I could tell the way the shell was going, it was a "once I accomplish this one great feat I'm going to quit" shell. I mean everyone did it literally some people's accomplishments just didn't make the news.

 

[Reauland]

Although I was long gone before Gred and Dowz were on board, I'd like to give folks a little more insight into how it could have gone down, and how Gred's calling the shell's leadership names could have come about.

I was in Dez for about 2 years, pretty much since the time it originally merged with Rone's shell til I took my surprise "break," and while I'm grateful for all the nice stuff I got and made some great friends, I was never overly smitten with the leadership. Here's why:

For most of my time with Dez, I kept attendance, kept up with points, kept the appropriate website threads updated so everyone could always know where they stood. I made it a point to attend every event we did, which at the time was largely scheduled events like sky, sea, dynamis and Einherjar. When we started camping HNMs, if it was anywhere from NA primetime to around 3 AM, I was at those too.

Throughout all of this, I suggested strategies (good or bad ), advised newcomers, and did my fair share of recruitment, all without ever being offered a pearlsac or even so much as a word of thanks from the leadership. Now to be fair, I understand that since I spent "downtime" with my social LS friends, they might have been hesitant to acknowledge me as a leader in a tangible way, but be that as it may, I was taking the initiative to get things done and trying to lead by example.

After months upon months of this, it started to take its toll on my attitude, and while I never went so far as to call anyone names, I was nonetheless pretty obviously bitter and spread the sarcasm pretty deep. It wore me out. It got to a point where it felt a lot less like fun, and way more like a second job. It took my time away from Vana'diel to really appreciate the reality of that assessment.

In Zycipher's defense, during my tenure, Zyc was indisputably a leader - right or wrong, he led. Over the course of time, however, it became increasingly clear to me that his idea of leadership was keeping all power in his own hands. He had no problem delegating responsibility, authority on the other hand, he kept for himself, or at least in the hands of people who weren't likely to ever question his judgement.

Had circumstances not forced my impromptu "vacation," I might have reached a degree of frustration very similar to Gred's. It saddens me to hear of Dez suffering such an ignoble fate, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't see it coming.

 

[hellstorm]

It sad really, Dez had some great people and when I first join that shell we ran this server. You can thank dez down fall to greedy leaders left in zyc absents and a poor point system that relied to much on zyc being there. Won't go into the story as I written it before, but I will say while gred was a ass at times and extremist when it come to views he would been better choice then any the leaders that dez had at that time. I tried to help but in the end all i get is stung by the leaders greed that I might get gear faster then him because my einherjar shell was doing better then his and even though he tried all different things like taking point away from me I was still keeping in the + in points each month. Thanks again ray had not did that I may not be where I am today.

 

[etchdog2000]

I had not really looked at this site for a while now. I loved Dez for about a 1.5 years then it was painful to be in, and after 4-5 months of waiting for a turn around I quit. The downward spiral of that shell was ultimately the reason I quit the game. I think ultimately the leadership was tired at the end, you can only push yourself so much for so long.

I wish I had the patience to get started with another group again to finish my goals.

 

[Ryou]

Zyc got his shield and I instantly saw his play drop off. Then Dalk was next on the throne for a relic and I had spent time the past few years with him. But I could tell the way the shell was going, it was a "once I accomplish this one great feat I'm going to quit" shell. I mean everyone did it literally some people's accomplishments just didn't make the news.

Not only was it incredibly selfish to make 20-30 people grind Dynamis and various HNMs to build a bank to get a relic for a person so they could quit right after, it was incredibly stupid.

Picking relics on the basis of who Zyc liked got us three relics for self-absorbed inconsistent players instead of dedicated players who attended consistently, and would have continued to attend consistently after getting a relic.

Shells do not exist to cater to the whims of shitty leaders. They exist because some content requires multiple people so you need a group in order to compete with other groups and succeed.

The leadership cultivated an atmosphere where where being buddy buddy with everyone and having good excuses for not playing was a more important factor in being rewarded by the leadership than your skill or contribution.

People didn't play hard because playing hard wasn't rewarded. Instead the good players got a dumbass Dragoon insulting them and making excuses when he got embarrassed on parse after parse.

 

[Psylentcuda]

Not only was it incredibly selfish to make 20-30 people grind Dynamis and various HNMs to build a bank to get a relic for a person so they could quit right after, it was incredibly stupid.

Picking relics on the basis of who Zyc liked got us three relics for self-absorbed inconsistent players instead of dedicated players who attended consistently, and would have continued to attend consistently after getting a relic.

Shells do not exist to cater to the whims of shitty leaders. They exist because some content requires multiple people so you need a group in order to compete with other groups and succeed.

The leadership cultivated an atmosphere where where being buddy buddy with everyone and having good excuses for not playing was a more important factor in being rewarded by the leadership than your skill or contribution.

People didn't play hard because playing hard wasn't rewarded. Instead the good players got a dumbass Dragoon insulting them and making excuses when he got embarrassed on parse after parse.

Points carried over from schedule events to HNM. Zyc had over 2000 points, Khrnos had 1700, Sirfang had like 1600 and it was hard for anyone else to get anything because they had more points. And we didn't do events if they weren't logged on so no one could make up points. It was a monopoly for so long. Then it took so long to get gear by the time their points were gone the shell was breaking.

 

[hellstorm]

Points carried over from schedule events to HNM. Zyc had over 2000 points, Khrnos had 1700, Sirfang had like 1600 and it was hard for anyone else to get anything because they had more points. And we didn't do events if they weren't logged on so no one could make up points. It was a monopoly for so long. Then it took so long to get gear by the time their points were gone the shell was breaking.

correction: Points was not tallied unless they were there so no one did anything unless zyc was on. Hench why they had a monopoly.

hench why nothing got done