Gas Relief for many in the (near?) future

[iaredrew]

[insert guy with water-powered welder torch thread here]

No seriously, I'm down with OCS drilling (not so much the rockies) IF.. wait IF it is used in a time frame that seriously considers nuclear power as a resource to further research in the fields of alternative fuel sources. OCS drilling (as well as any other alternative oil sources) should only be used as a TEMPORARY solution to help aid in a bigger process. Unfortunately, it'll probably end up being another dead forgotten promise and just used to make politicians and oil companies more powerful.

 

[Bustaballs]

Federal government regulation of anything rarely helps anyone except a small minority of people and the costs of doing do are generally insane and not worth it. Remember that ANY regulation is one more liberty lost. What if I wanted to start a small oil company? Then I have to go through insane amounts of regulations just to do simple tasks and thus making the process of doing business much more complicated. With too much regulation, small businesses can't even begin to try and compete with the big guys. The less the government does, the better. The market will work itself out if you let it.

 

[alanon]

I know. And no, the reason I posted that is because when I were in the states, there were debates on the TV and expert panels talking about how much money you could save if you started drilling oil off the coast, etc. There's also a website with name collection about "acting NOW" so that you can save more money.

No, I know. But really, it isn't entirely true. Yes, it is tied to the currency also, but every time the currency rises or drops, the oil price doesn't necessarily follow the curve EXACTLY. Oil isn't gold, even though it is often called "the black gold" or "liquid gold". The oil prices follow common principles as well. The cost at the gas station is dependent on how much it will cost for the gas station to replace the gas. If it will cost them more, they raise the gas price. It isn't dependent on how much it cost them to buy all of their gallons. If there's more oil, the gas price will go down. In April 2000, the gas price was $1,46 per gallon. In the same month, gasoline used to cost $1,79 per liter. That is $6,78 per gallon. In comparison, the EU/dollar ratio were pretty much 1/1.

Yes, I know it is outpacing the same increase in wages. However, we've paid a lot more for gas, even considering our wages, for years. There's a reason a lot of people in Sweden chose to walk, take the bike, or use public transportation instead of taking the car, and it is not ONLY for environmental health. A lot of people chose to take the car only if they really have to, such as when they need to travel a long distance. Reason I chose 200 was that it were before 9/11 and that invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, where the the dollar started a huge decline. In 2000 they were pretty much 1/1.

The drilling off of our coast IS a reality. China already has a deal in place with Cuba to start drilling, which puts them mere miles off of the US coastline. Environmentalists need to decide whether they want the US to drill, or the nefariously environmenttally unfriendly conglomerate of China/Cuba. While we're on the subject, this greenhouse gas thing is getting out of control. The human ego knows no bounds. ONE volconic eruption emits more greenhouse gasses than the ENTIRE AMOUNT that humans have contributted in their ENTIRE HISTORY! It is arrogance to think that we amount to anything more than a flea on this world.

It is also not just cost versus living wage. It is the amount of travel neccesary. America just drives more. I'm not even talking about vacation and leisure driving, I'm referring to just the amount of gas used for work. This country is just more spread out geographically. Hell, even within our own country, I'm sure that someone who lives and works in NYC doesn't feel the crunch of higher prices more than someone in the midwest. I live 27 miles from work. That's 54 miles per day if I'm in the office. Plus I have to travel a lot for my job - around 35,000 miles per year. It's hitting myself and people like me very hard.

 

[hellstorm]

Who cares fuck them.

anyone can be bought, if the oil companies fill threaten you be sure they would buy it, just like Microsoft has done with the computer companies that have come out with superior technology then there own, and do they publish it.. no. You have any idea what technology we could have if these big corporations we're not allowed to buy out and shelf the smaller companies that are creating ground breaking technology. Greed always wins at the end.

[insert guy with water-powered welder torch thread here]

No seriously, I'm down with OCS drilling (not so much the rockies) IF.. wait IF it is used in a time frame that seriously considers nuclear power as a resource to further research in the fields of alternative fuel sources. OCS drilling (as well as any other alternative oil sources) should only be used as a TEMPORARY solution to help aid in a bigger process. Unfortunately, it'll probably end up being another dead forgotten promise and just used to make politicians and oil companies more powerful.

Oil company don't care they win either way. They profit now, and if we drill are deposits then they will get the contracts to drill them which means more money for them. Until we find a way to regulate oil corperations there will be no end.

 

[Xerius]

dude, lol... You live in Sweden. One USD is worth almosts SIX KRONA(s? idk).

OMG lol, i cant believe you said this. Uzor was talking about the price of Gasoline in Sweden being 3x the USD equivalent price. Not that the price in KRONAS is higher.

And to all those saying prices around the world are relative, they are NOT. Gasoline might be priced at the same rate when it is sold from the refiners, but NOT at the pump. For example, in Hong Kong I pay around $8.25 per gallon. Thats right, MORE than the Americans here who feel $4.50 or whatever is back breaking, Hong Kong has 100% tax on cars and almost 80-100% tax on Gasoline. I dont know where you get your information about gasoline prices being standardized all over the world, especially with all the subsidies given in various nations.

Mind you, minimum wage in Hong Kong for supervisory, technical, clerical and miscellaneous non-production workers is around $1500 USD as well. To put it into perspective, an average fresh graduate in accounting makes around $1300 USD a month, compared to the US where wages are around $3500. McDonald's workers make around $3 or so an hour in Hong Kong at the entry level, maybe $4 max. Sure taxes are not included but it gives you an idea.

Secondly, oil companies are major lobbyists, and have so much say in the US economy that any amazingly large technological leap that may drastically lower demand for oil will definitely be met with various forms of protesting ie. oil companies will claim that these super efficient cars are "dangerous" or "lack safety". etc etc.

If anything, the downfall of North America (both Canada and America) will be the lack of a properly developed public transportation system. Other countries have moved forward years ago in developing efficient transportation networks for their citizens, America's inertia towards this movement is now finally biting them in the ass.

Don't get me wrong, the US is a great place to live for the most part, and but its a shame one of the strongest countries in the world has fallen so far in the past 8 years. Wonder what changed 8 years ago that brought its downfall, oh wait i know....Bush.

 

[Uzor]

The drilling off of our coast IS a reality. China already has a deal in place with Cuba to start drilling, which puts them mere miles off of the US coastline. Environmentalists need to decide whether they want the US to drill, or the nefariously environmenttally unfriendly conglomerate of China/Cuba. While we're on the subject, this greenhouse gas thing is getting out of control. The human ego knows no bounds. ONE volconic eruption emits more greenhouse gasses than the ENTIRE AMOUNT that humans have contributted in their ENTIRE HISTORY! It is arrogance to think that we amount to anything more than a flea on this world.

It is also not just cost versus living wage. It is the amount of travel neccesary. America just drives more. I'm not even talking about vacation and leisure driving, I'm referring to just the amount of gas used for work. This country is just more spread out geographically. Hell, even within our own country, I'm sure that someone who lives and works in NYC doesn't feel the crunch of higher prices more than someone in the midwest. I live 27 miles from work. That's 54 miles per day if I'm in the office. Plus I have to travel a lot for my job - around 35,000 miles per year. It's hitting myself and people like me very hard.

I'm well-aware of the overly hyped Greenhosue Effect. I wrote a long post about it a few months ago. And yes, I know a volcanic eruption (or hell, a mudvolcano eruption) emits a fuckload of greenhouse gasses.

However

Just because it happens naturally, doesn't mean we're free to do whatever the fuck we want. By contributing more to it, it just might be enough to put the earth's natural cycle out of order and speed the process up, or in other ways throw off the natural balance of things. That is my point, not avoiding it altogether.

 

[Bustaballs]

Just because it happens naturally, doesn't mean we're free to do whatever the fuck we want. By contributing more to it, it just might be enough to put the earth's natural cycle out of order and speed the process up, or in other ways throw off the natural balance of things. That is my point, not avoiding it altogether.

I think that's where everyone stands still. The word might is an assumption. Assumptions should never lead to policy making. We use to have a system where everyone who owned land had to respect their neighbor's land by not polluting. That includes via air or water. So, it has a balance. However, when government owns land, they have no desire to take care of it properly. Land should be in the hands of the people because people generally care about their own possessions.

 

[Uzor]

I think that's where everyone stands still. The word might is an assumption. Assumptions should never lead to policy making. We use to have a system where everyone who owned land had to respect their neighbor's land by not polluting. That includes via air or water. So, it has a balance. However, when government owns land, they have no desire to take care of it properly. Land should be in the hands of the people because people generally care about their own possessions.

But on the other hand, you should never make political decisions on the assumption that everything will be alright. That by itself is an assumption. Might is not an assumption, it is a "What-if". Assuming it WON'T happen is an assumption.

Really, do pros and cons.

1)If we try to prevent it, and it doesn't happen, it would lead to lower economy, and possibly depression etc.

2) If we try to prevent it, and it does happen, we will have lower economy, but it might not be as bad as it otherwise would.

3) If we don't prepare and it don't happen, everyone will be happy and economy will be good

4) If we don't prepare and it does happen, not only will our economy be worse, it could possibly lead to the worst economy we've ever had. Not only would people get poorer, it could lead to a lot of people dieing because of lack of food, people would become homeless, etc.

Really, would you rather the politicians don't take actions trying to prevent it from happening, rather then sit and wait in case it does NOT happen? That by itself is somewhat contradicting by you, as I assume your post was centered in the "Don't take action" camp.

And its not really about the government taking care of their land. Its about the politicians caring about its citizens well-being and future, and the earth which, believe it or not, is their home, and will always be unless they somehow manage to find a way for interstellar transportation and can move to their own little planet, in which case that will be their now home. THEN they have all the right they want to say "Screw the earth". But until then, they should care about the earth, as it is their children, grand children etc. that will be affected by it, not them themselves. Is it really that smart to put it off for the other generation to take care of, when it might be too late by then? That's like taking a really huge fucking dump right in their grand children's face.

 

[K. Ishitar]

honestly who the fuck cares?

we are getting raped at the pumps and they are raking in millions each fucking week, it would be a god send if they made an engine that could put out that kind of gas mileage

also one of the major oil companies(can't remember which) plants down in the gulf crashed or went out of service, they have to increase the price just to get the bare end of the profit. We are running low on oil and as some believe the reason we're in Iraq now.

although riding a bike for 240mph? what the hell?

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Bustaballs]

But on the other hand, you should never make political decisions on the assumption that everything will be alright. That by itself is an assumption. Might is not an assumption, it is a "What-if". Assuming it WON'T happen is an assumption.

Really, do pros and cons.

1)If we try to prevent it, and it doesn't happen, it would lead to lower economy, and possibly depression etc.

2) If we try to prevent it, and it does happen, we will have lower economy, but it might not be as bad as it otherwise would.

3) If we don't prepare and it don't happen, everyone will be happy and economy will be good

4) If we don't prepare and it does happen, not only will our economy be worse, it could possibly lead to the worst economy we've ever had. Not only would people get poorer, it could lead to a lot of people dieing because of lack of food, people would become homeless, etc.

Really, would you rather the politicians don't take actions trying to prevent it from happening, rather then sit and wait in case it does NOT happen? That by itself is somewhat contradicting by you, as I assume your post was centered in the "Don't take action" camp.

And its not really about the government taking care of their land. Its about the politicians caring about its citizens well-being and future, and the earth which, believe it or not, is their home, and will always be unless they somehow manage to find a way for interstellar transportation and can move to their own little planet, in which case that will be their now home. THEN they have all the right they want to say "Screw the earth". But until then, they should care about the earth, as it is their children, grand children etc. that will be affected by it, not them themselves. Is it really that smart to put it off for the other generation to take care of, when it might be too late by then? That's like taking a really huge fucking dump right in their grand children's face.

It's not the government's job to "take care" of anyone. It's our job as individual people to live our own lives as we choose and help take care of other people in need in our own communities. If there happens to be a large organization dedicated to helping research such things in a Red Cross fashion then I'd have no problem. Hell, I'd probably donate to it on occasion. But when the government gets involved, either nothing ever gets done and money is wasted or things go poorly and money gets wasted.

 

[Uzor]

I didn't say take care. I said caring.

 

[Bustaballs]

My bad.

You're from Sweden. You're used to socialism. It can work in small countries that have a very passive foreign policy and a good economy. When you get the government involved in things here, you get Hurricane Katrina.