Gay Marriage

Status
Not open for further replies.
You see, the major problem with gay marriage is how do you decide who stays in the kitchen?
 
Mirewen said:
But seriously though, you're saying I can make (for example) the Church of Katherine and as long as I say I worship God and have a following (but, you know, toss in things like finding gold tablets in the middle of a field and having a conversation with God) my religion can be called Christianity and not a cult?
Click to expand...

sorry to go off topic a bit but i just can't resist. didn't Moses say he found stone tablets and have a conversation with god? :biggrin:
 
That is part of Christianity not an off side of it. Moses didn't ask people to worship him.
 
Rayn said:
What I want to add is, how can any Catholic foundation even be a beacon of morality after so many priests of the Catholic faith have been outed as child molestors? After that point they have been morally bankrupt as to say what is right and wrong.
Click to expand...

Which is the inherent problem. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Which basically means shut the fuck up because in one form or another, you are no better than anyone else. With the amount of hate in this world, I really don't think love is the problem. The problem is all these people talking about "righteous lives" and "the sancitity of marriage" who are the hypocrites banging their mistresses on a weekday afternoon.

I agree they should make it civil unions across the board. You want to have a religious ceremony in addition, bully for you. Anyone who loves each other should be able to marry if they so choose. People shouldn't be placing their morals on other people, period.
 
Mirewen said:
That is part of Christianity not an off side of it. Moses didn't ask people to worship him.
Click to expand...

I'd say he just got tired of people's complaints and bablings, and "found" the tablets and told them to follow it or go to hell just to get them to shut up and behave.
 
Mirewen said:
This. They just get the "benefit" because they don't have the same sex organs.
Click to expand...

Heh yea, "benefit" infuckingdeed.

It benefits everyone whom gives a shit outside the relationship between the two sound minded adults involved. BAH

Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
 
A little piece of irony for me is that I carry the same family name as probably the most corrupt and ruthless Pope in the Papal history.... woo go me. XD
 
Kohra said:
sorry to go off topic a bit but i just can't resist. didn't Moses say he found stone tablets and have a conversation with god? :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Yeah and he broke them and was able to get God to bring him new ones that had the same thing written on them instead of writing something different and telling people that God was angry because the original was destroyed.

As for lumping Christians and Mormons together, in my opinion that's about as close minded and uninformed as saying people of the same sex can't get married. You might as well say Judaism, Muslims, Christians, and Mormons are all exactly the same. They all came from the family of Abraham and worship the same God in different ways. You can call them all believers of magic if you wish. That's what they are to you because you haven't seen God for yourself. Everyone has the right to their own set of beliefs as long as they aren't harming other people.

Personally I am a Christian and I believe that people of the same sex should be able to get married if they so choose. I know that not everyone believes in God like I do. They haven't seen him in their own life so they don't believe in him. Some Christians have not had feelings for the same sex so they don't believe in being gay. I don't have feelings for women (although I joke about it alot with my female friends) but it doesn't mean that I don't believe in gay people and most educated Christians are like that. Most atheists that I know aren't so vocal as some of the Christians are about their beliefs but there are extremists on both sides who try to force their opinions on others. The extremists are the ones who really hurt our society.

If I was a Californian I would have voted to let gay people get married. I am a conservative for the most part but I don't believe in telling people how they should live and who they should marry.

Another lesson in this situation is that everyone should pay attention to the issues and vote. You don't have to know everything about every candidate on the ballot and don't have to even select someone to vote for in a category that you don't know enough which option to choose but I think that everyone would know if they believed in marriage for everyone or not. Honestly that alone should be enough for most people to stand in line and vote.
 
Well said Stine. I just don't get why people think it's ok to bash other people's religions but they get all up in arms if their sexual orientation and choices are questioned. Pot calling the kettle black?
 
Rayn said:
What I want to add is, how can any Catholic foundation even be a beacon of morality after so many priests of the Catholic faith have been outed as child molestors? After that point they have been morally bankrupt as to say what is right and wrong.
Click to expand...

The Catholic Church has been morally bankrupt since at least November, 1095 CE.
 
I wasn't going to give my whole opinion on this, but I decided I didn't care if I insulted anyone.

It really saddens me that as a society we are refusing to evolve and accept things that are right in front of us in our daily lives. Just when I thought I was going to be able to feel safe holding my boyfriend's hand in public(and I wouldn't feel safe doing that in my area), I see that people are still so full of fear and hate.

I'm sorry, America. You are a liar. You are not the land of the free, or the brave. You are the land of those who are chained to, and fear a magical man in the sky that will send you to a place called Hell if you so much as look at something wrong.

If you fear or hate any minority, no matter what it is, fear and hate yourself as well. Chances are, you are part of a minority. Also, it is with great pity that I look at anyone who hates a minority, any of them. I pity you, because you're ignorant, and possibly even arrogant. It's those who hate that create fear. Fear is control, and that's how this ballot was made, through fear. Exploiting possible scenarios to get a desired result.

Congratulations America. You win a lot of pissed off people.

Sincerely babble-icious,

Skeith
 
Mirewen said:
Well said Stine. I just don't get why people think it's ok to bash other people's religions but they get all up in arms if their sexual orientation and choices are questioned. Pot calling the kettle black?
Click to expand...

I'm hard-pressed to see how I'm bashing Christianity because I don't share your hang-ups about Mormons or want to keep them out of the Jesus club; however, feel free to be offended that I think religion's claims are complete baloney.

Nowhere is it written that I can't defend the group I'm in because I'm attacking the group I'm not in. That's a silly argument.
 
Halifirien said:
I'm hard-pressed to see how I'm bashing Christianity because I don't share your hang-ups about Mormons or want to keep them out of the Jesus club.
Click to expand...

That was not the reason, you said it was “magic”. To Christians, or any religious group, that is an insult.
 
I'm not sure what word would better apply. Maybe "supernatural," but I don't really see it as an improvement. Either way, you're still believing in things that don't happen in the natural world.
 
You poor gays. The reason they banned your marriages is to protect you. Protect you from becoming as miserable as they are.
 
As much as it may disappoint you, this is *exactly* how the process is supposed to work.

Marriage is a state issue (which is why I laugh every time someone brings up the concept gay marriage, either for or against, at the federal level). Until the federal government starts issuing marriage licenses, it is up to each individual state as to whether or not to honor a marriage.

Why is this important, and why should the state care?

Marriage is more than just a piece of paper signifying that two people are joined together. Marriage grants certain rights as well:

1. Married couples (in most cases) cannot be compelled to testify against one another in a court of law.
2. Married couples gain special status under most tax codes.
3. Married couples are legally allowed to have sex (in states where adultery is defined as *any* sex outside of marriage, or places that still have breach of promise laws).
4. Married couples have preference in estate law over unmarried couples, in the event that there is no will.
5. Married couples are legally allowed to make life decisions for their partner in the event one is hospitalized - and they generally have higher authority than any other family member.
6. Insurance benefits, which are usually regulated by a state's laws, treat a spouse with higher preference than any other relationship.

With these and many other privileges associated with marriage, it is easy to see why a state has a say in who they grant these privileges to.

This is not a religious issue. If two people want to go to a church and get married - more power to them. They are free to do so. But if they want to receive all the benefits given to them by the state government for this marriage, they need to meet the state's criteria. This is why you have to go to a judge and get a marriage license if you want to receive the benefits granted by the state to a married couple.

So why do I say this is exactly how the system is supposed to work?

Since the state (as a representative of its people) grants special privileges to married couples, the people (through the state government) get a say as to who should have those privileges. These laws are not the same across the country, and reflect the heterogeneous nature of the US. Same sex marriage being legal in some states and illegal in others is one example of this. Another is the minimum age at which two people can legally marry. Another example are consanguinity laws that define exactly how closely two people can be related, if at all, and still be allowed to marry.

All these variables are dictated by the people who elect their representatives to state government.

As civics will teach you, a law passed by the state legislature (or put on the ballot by the people through the initiative process) can be trumped by the state supreme court. The state supreme court can be trumped by a federal court, or by the state constitution.

Since marriage is a state issue (and will remain so unless the federal government starts issuing marriage licenses), the federal supreme court has no jurisdiction in this matter. Therefore, opponents of gay marriage in California went through the state constitution.

I don't know California state law, but if it's anything like federal law, a constitutional amendment requires a large majority of either the legislature or the general populace to pass.

The point of the United States is majority rule, with respect to minority rights. Our governmental system was designed to honor that. In this day and age, we get so wrapped up around minority rights that we forget the concept of majority rule... the cornerstone of any democracy. Clearly, the majority has spoken in California.

As far as minority rights, note that there is nothing forbidding gays to get married in the religious sense - they are free to go to anyone who will perform a wedding ceremony. Nothing says they cannot live together.

However, until the people of California, as a whole, are willing to give them equal rights and privileges granted by the *state*, this is as much as they will get. It may be disappointing to some, but this is how our system works and it has served us well thus far.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top