Ginuva's Theory & Schultz's Stratagems

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aileronrush

Fresh Adventurer
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Recently we have been collecting both of these exp scrolls for our members on Dynamis runs in the Northlands. Everybody has the theory and about a dozen of the stratagems are still needed. When Perfect was still doing Dynamis runs I learned that if everybody has both in the alliance it should increase the chances that AF2 will drop. There isn't really alot of information about this on the net so I was wondering if anybody had any feedback about it? Thanks.
 
I've heard the same theory, but I can't see how it's true. AF2 is rare/ex, as is the exp scrolls. So the idea is that if everyone already has the exp scroll rare/ex then they can not hold any more in their inventory, and therefore more other items (hopefully AF2) will drop.

However, take the case of expin' in Quicksand Caves, if you exp there long enough everyone will eventually get a Coffer Key and yet, Coffer keys will still drop. I've had this happen meriting in Ma Jool with their black fang keys or what-not.

But then again Dynamis might just be different scenario. Honestly I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I don't see it happening.
 
I can see the Schultz working because they drop off the demons that drop AF. So it will clear 1 item they wont drop from their pool and may push the drop rate of the other(AFs) higher.

However, the theory drops from eyes, that do NOT drop AFs. So I don't see how theory would ever help drop rates of AF.
 
Maybe, but there can also be a lot of:

You do not meet the requirements to obtain a Schultz's Stratagems/Ginuva's Theory. Schultz's Stratagems/Ginuva's Theory lost.
 
Ginuva's Theory drops off stones in Glacier, stones don't drop AF2. I don't believe anything besides stones drop it. Everyone in shell had one on a run we did, and what happened was:
Negorissimo said:
You do not meet the requirements to obtain a Schultz's Stratagems/Ginuva's Theory. Schultz's Stratagems/Ginuva's Theory lost.
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Schultz's Stratagems drops 100% off of demon NM's in Xarcabard, who can also drop AF2. This is where the idea actually comes from. They are rare, so if everyone has one, and the demon NM's have to drop one, maybe they will drop AF2 instead.
 
Stouter said:
Ginuva's Theory drops off stones in Glacier, stones don't drop AF2. I don't believe anything besides stones drop it.
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No, but they do drop 100c, so technically it could increase the chance a 100c will drop instead.

The rumour hasn't been verified, and probably never will, but its the same with the existance of TH, no? :wink:

On a more serious note, it doesn't hurt to try it out. My LS is working on gathering the exp scrolls, and hopefully it'll work out. If it doesn't, nothing is really lost except for two inventory spaces.
 
It's superstition like this that holds quetza endgame back. They're xp scrolls, folks. They give xp. Drop this extra-TH obsession. It doesn't exist. They've already patched the drop-inducing. If you all have a rare/ex and force it from dropping, that's all you lose. Nothing takes its place. Anyone who used to farm torques knows this.

There is no, zero, indications that wasting strategems by forcing them to rot, which is what you're actually doing, will affect any other item. You lose the strategems, and that's all you gain.

If you have a wind torque and a wind torque was set to drop, you don't get an elemental torque in its place. You don't get an increased chance that an elemental torque is in its place. You get NOTHING.

This is a fad superstition.
 
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And you actually think 61 exp is even worth using the exp scroll for?
 
Personally, I don't believe in this concept either. The most common (that I've seen) belief regarding drops is that each person in your party/alliance gets a roll against each possible drop from a mob.

If you're rolling against a rare/exc item and all party/alliance members have the item already, the roll still processes and the item can still drop. Seeing as the dynamis xp scrolls and af are completely different item numbers, this loot theory defies the concept in this thread.

Obviously none of this is proven. Throw into the mix that Dynamis changes many rules (auto-attack, lotting abilities, etc), and that even further mystifies the loot rules. Not to mention that moon phase has also been mentioned as a factor in AF drops - now that one, I can actually testify some small amount of evidence for. But I digress.

This is pretty much one of those things that can never be answered. Nobody knows and nobody has definitive proof; if they say they do, I'd be 99% sure they're full of it.
 
Worth not showing gullibility and having a whole shell collect them for nothing? Yeah. Rare, ex, and rare/ex stuff rots if it is stacked against. You can probably get them to not drop. It'll just be your loss. Nothing takes its place. It's been that way ever since the end of last year when they fixed torque stacking. Unfortunately, guys, you're about six months too late on this, and you've got the wrong set of circumstances anyway. You're only hurting yourselves by not using the papers. Not just in xp, but in image. Don't be the shell two years behind still bringing mandy buds along, and the mechanics are clear. You can't force drops any more.
 
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actually we entered beaucidine about a week ago with everyone in alliance having the scroll, and we had a couple drop in the first pull, and then others later.
Much better drop rate than we ever had without them.
We need 1 more stratagem for xarcabard and we will see how that effects it.
but so far beaucidine has seemed to show a little true.
 
Uzor said:
No, but they do drop 100c, so technically it could increase the chance a 100c will drop instead.

The rumour hasn't been verified, and probably never will, but its the same with the existance of TH, no? :wink:

On a more serious note, it doesn't hurt to try it out. My LS is working on gathering the exp scrolls, and hopefully it'll work out. If it doesn't, nothing is really lost except for two inventory spaces.
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Reread. We did try it, we got a theory to drop, it sat in treasure then was lost.

I used to barrage detectors in velegannon palace checking for god pop mobs. They drop coffer keys. Several times I got a key to drop, while already having one on me, and saw it go straight to saying I didn't meet requirements and it was lost.
 
Stouter said:
Reread. We did try it, we got a theory to drop, it sat in treasure then was lost.

I used to barrage detectors in velegannon palace checking for god pop mobs. They drop coffer keys. Several times I got a key to drop, while already having one on me, and saw it go straight to saying I didn't meet requirements and it was lost.
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That's because keys work different, you can try to get Moldavite Earring or Assault Jerkin to drop when you alredy have it, or Emperess Hairpin for that matter.
 
Stouter said:
Reread. We did try it, we got a theory to drop, it sat in treasure then was lost.
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Kirayamato said:
actually loveless tried this and it seems it doesn't increases drop rate
the exp scrolls doesn't drop only
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Obviously someone obviously didn't have it Stouter...
 
Uzor said:
Obviously someone obviously didn't have it Stouter...
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Is kira talking strategems, or theory? To say theory didn't drop, there's no mob that drops it 100%, you could go through a northlands run without seeing one. We had 36ish people in beauc, all said they had one. One dropped. It went into treasure, 5 minutes later it was lost.
 
Stouter said:
Is kira talking strategems, or theory? To say theory didn't drop, there's no mob that drops it 100%, you could go through a northlands run without seeing one. We had 36ish people in beauc, all said they had one. One dropped. It went into treasure, 5 minutes later it was lost.
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You DO know there's a pass button, right? <.<;

and I haven't been through a single beaucedine run where none dropped.

Either way, just because they do drop doesn't mean they don't affect AF2 drop rate. Personally I'd keep them just in case they DO increase drop rate, because you don't lose anything by keeping it.
 
Stouter said:
Reread. We did try it, we got a theory to drop, it sat in treasure then was lost.

I used to barrage detectors in velegannon palace checking for god pop mobs. They drop coffer keys. Several times I got a key to drop, while already having one on me, and saw it go straight to saying I didn't meet requirements and it was lost.
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Actually, you thought everyone had one... someone was holding out on you, and they passed it. AF doesn't share a drop slot with either the scrolls or with the currency though, and therefore almost certainly having the scrolls not drop can't affect AF drop rates...

Experience Scrolls do actually stop dropping when everyone has one (and yes, this is from actual experience). Coffer and Chest Keys are a different Situation to most Rare/ex in that they continue to drop, and are lost when everyone in the group has one.
 
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