God and Amputees.

Stine said:
Science hasn't proven God doesn't exist and Christianity doesn't disprove science (although some extremist believe that ><).
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But they (and by they I mean silly Christians) are still trying to confuse our children with their "valid, scientific thought" through Creationism, in which there is no proof for and, going out on a limb here, there won't ever be.

Sounds like they have something to hide, no?
 
Tyrath said:
Nice. Not having a belief is a belief.

Did someone divide by zero?
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but they do have a belief.. they believe that God does not exist. They can't prove it, not truly. They can prove religious words wrong when they contradict or don't work.. but those who are set on believing there is no God are just as much working in a sort of faith as those who believe there is a God.

If anything.. Society itself is God. It's not something tangible, it's something that shapes us all, it's a very powerful force... it sounds like God to me.
 
Elemmire said:
but they do have a belief.. they believe that God does not exist. They can't prove it, not truly. They can prove religious words wrong when they contradict or don't work.. but those who are set on believing there is no God are just as much working in a sort of faith as those who believe there is a God.

If anything.. Society itself is God. It's not something tangible, it's something that shapes us all, it's a very powerful force... it sounds like God to me.
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It doesn't matter if the atheist can't prove god doesn't exist, it's up to the one making the claim to provide evidence for that belief. It's up to the believer to prove that god exists, not the other way around.

You want to prove god exists? Fine, provide some empirical evidence for his existence that hasn't been debunked by modern day science and maybe we'll get back to you.

Hell, I can prove god doesn't exist right now. Let's first set two premises:

1. God is omnipresent, he is everywhere at once.

2. God is all powerful.

So if god cannot do something then he is not all powerful and therefore cannot be god, right? Ok.

God cannot play football.

Why?

He'd be offsides all the time.

Therefore, he cannot do something and cannot be god.

Q.E.D
 
Something I've always found funny was when a church said that Dinosaur bones were placed by the devil to fool us.
 
Sirjarvis said:
It doesn't matter if the atheist can't prove god doesn't exist, it's up to the one making the claim to provide evidence for that belief. It's up to the believer to prove that god exists, not the other way around.

You want to prove god exists? Fine, provide some empirical evidence for his existence that hasn't been debunked by modern day science and maybe we'll get back to you.

Hell, I can prove god doesn't exist right now. Let's first set two premises:

1. God is omnipresent, he is everywhere at once.

2. God is all powerful.

So if god cannot do something then he is not all powerful and therefore cannot be god, right? Ok.

God cannot play football.

Why?

He'd be offsides all the time.

Therefore, he cannot do something and cannot be god.

Q.E.D
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wait wait wait.. that's a double fucking standard...the atheists BELIEVE (note, can not prove) God does not exists, religious believe God does exist... both are in a state of believing with no way to prove they are really right... and yet just because someone does believe in God they are the ones that have to back up their claims? And atheists don't? what the hell kinda crap is that :| I hate double standards.. atheists are making just as much a unprovable claim as the religious
 
It's not a double standard.

I don't really worry about proving the non-existence of gods. I don't go out of my way to prove unicorns and leprechauns don't exist, either. Nobody expects me to step up to the plate and prove conclusively why Thor isn't around and performing miracles.

The burden of proof really is on the believers. Not believing in something doesn't require effort. You rarely see atheists going through the mental gymnastics required to believe in a loving god who also threatens eternal punishment, or keep saying "Thy will be done" to a deity who answers every prayer but also lets Christopher Reeve die from an infected bedsore.
 
Ya know, science has a hell of a lot more proof than religion. As far as I'm concerned there is absolutly no proof for religion.

Science on the other hand has plenty. Just read the link in the OP for a healthy dose of proof.
 
You're all missing a BIG point. We don't need to prove anything, especially to any of you. We believe because we believe, pure and simple. He exists for us, primarily because each of us "silly Christians" has been given cause to believe He does.

There is no burden of proof, simply because no amount of witnessing (and I mean, REAL witnessing, not that "God spared my house during the storm because I prayed for Him to" bull) will satisfy your need for weights and measures or a lock of God's hair (He created Man in His image, so to me, God doesn't *have* hair).

As far as I've seen, there has been nothing but civility from the spiritual/religious/Christian/Muslim end of this discussion, and an increasing amount of hostility from the Atheist/Agnostic side. I hate to put it in terms like that, but it's my observation. I'm sorely disappointed because I expected better of the QCDN RSI Forum Population. If I wanted to be bashed incessantly for my faith, beliefs, or feelings then I'd go lurk the Ubuntu Forums where they eat that kind of stuff for breakfast.

As this thread has degenerated from civil discourse to petty squabbles and bashing ad infinitum, I gracefully retire.

If it goes back towards a better discussion, I might return.
 
Regardless of how blatently obvious his non-existence is, the question to be asked is:

Is it a bad thing to have belief in a God? At least, in the case of Christianity, not the more extremist religions. The modern Christian is not harmful to anyone, and although religion is an obvious method of controlling the masses and making them behave, it does keep a lot of people blindly content with their lives until death. People can live happily, in the firm belief that their life has a purpose, and that death should not be feared.

I was discussing this with my brother today. All these people going out of their way to prove the non-existence of God, and for what? To stop people believing? For what good? For the most part, it helps people cope with life, or even be content with a shitty one, from birth until death. It does more good than harm, in this case. This doesn't apply to the more "harmful" religions in the slightest, however.
 
Diabllos said:
Is it a bad thing to have belief in a God? At least, in the case of Christianity, not the more extremist religions. The modern Christian is not harmful to anyone, and although religion is an obvious method of controlling the masses and making them behave, it does keep a lot of people blindly content with their lives until death.
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Christianity doesn't get a pass from assholishness any more than other religions do. It's not atheists who are trying to undermine science education by introducing magic to the curriculum. Really, my beef is with aggressively ignorant fundamentalists. Catholics, Scientologists and Jews aren't trying to cram supernatural explanations into science books, either.

The soft-focus "spiritual" folks who just sorta believe in God for lack of anything else rarely get on my nerves. They can't back up their belief with evidence, but they're generally content to stay in their corner. I don't care if people believe in gods and demons. Whatever gets you through the night, y'know? It's when they expect me to live my life as if I do that I have a serious problem.

I wouldn't say it's hostility being dished out by the atheists in this thread, but I would label it as dismissiveness.
 
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Trippyhippy said:
Ya know, science has a hell of a lot more proof than religion. As far as I'm concerned there is absolutly no proof for religion.

Science on the other hand has plenty. Just read the link in the OP for a healthy dose of proof.
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Thing is the website doesn't take into play that the Bible was written by man and edited by men of power. I did visit the website and read what it had to say. The Bible is full of many different symbols and not all of it is meant to be taken literally. I personally don't think that everything was created as it is now in 7 days. The numbers 3, 7, 12, and 40 are numbers that are used constantly in the Bible to symbolize events. It has been translated so many different times and written into so many different versions that it's hard to really know everything that it was originally intended to mean. Also there are other non-religious texts that support many events in the Bible. I don't have links for them right now.

Science still doesn't prove that God doesn't exist and I don't see how proof that science exists means that God doesn't. God doesn't say, "Thou shalt not practice science." Albert Einstein stated that, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." I personally believe that. There is nothing saying that God didn't cause the Big Bang. Yes there are some Christian people who blindly try to throw evolution out of schools because someone told them that God didn't do it. I think they are blind and should take a course of Bible History.

What I really don't get is how is me being a Christian hurting anyone? I don't go out and tell people that they're going to hell because they don't believe what I do. Most real Christians who read the Bible and explore their faith on their own are not going to harass you. They will more than likely try to help you. Real Christians will love their neighbor and not picket funerals or force children into marriage with old men or some other nonsense like that. Yes we're supposed to want to bring other people to our faith but I know that force feeding the gospels down your throat is not going to make you or anyone believe them. Most likely it would put you off. I give to both secular and non secular charities. I try to consider others' feelings before mine. Yes it makes me a doormat at times but I like helping other people. If you take out me believing in God, you would have a person who generally helps others. I believe that people can be good with or without believing in a god.
 
I don't see any issues when it comes to people believing god. Believe in what you want and just don't hurt other people who don't share your beliefs.

Has anyone seen The Mist? Remember the psycho bible bitch? It's those people that make me hate religion.

Live your life the way you want and don't force it on other people and the world will be a better place. Although I do love debates for whether or not he/she does exist.
 
Myrrh said:
Has anyone seen The Mist? Remember the psycho bible bitch? It's those people that make me hate religion.
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Not being religious because of people you know who are... doesn't really make sense. Do what you want to do because you want to. Believe what you want to believe because you want to. Don't let people who obviously don't know how to compose themselves properly effect what you think about something.
 
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Diabllos said:
Is it a bad thing to have belief in a God? At least, in the case of Christianity, not the more extremist religions. The modern Christian is not harmful to anyone, and although religion is an obvious method of controlling the masses and making them behave, it does keep a lot of people blindly content with their lives until death. People can live happily, in the firm belief that their life has a purpose, and that death should not be feared.
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They directly impede on my life, and therefore I have a right to say something about it. They come to my door, praising the good word. They yell at my friends for being gay. They protest on my schools fucking doorstep for the funerals of 5 men and women killed in a terrible tragedy. They judge and judge and judge. They ask for money. They put "In God We Trust" on my money. They've been taking away our rights, one by one, for the past 8 years (I'm looking at you G.W.B). They're hypocrites. They dismiss all rational thought.

I could go on, but Christians piss me off. Get a life and accept that the only place you're going after you die is a grave.
 
Alyada said:
They put "In God We Trust" on my money.
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They also shoehorned "under God" into the Pledge of Allegience so generations of schoolchildren would know they're not godless communists. Gotta get 'em while their minds are made of rubber, after all.
 
Alyada said:
They directly impede on my life, and therefore I have a right to say something about it. They come to my door, praising the good word. They yell at my friends for being gay. They protest on my schools fucking doorstep for the funerals of 5 men and women killed in a terrible tragedy. They judge and judge and judge. They ask for money. They put "In God We Trust" on my money. They've been taking away our rights, one by one, for the past 8 years (I'm looking at you G.W.B). They're hypocrites. They dismiss all rational thought.

I could go on, but Christians piss me off. Get a life and accept that the only place you're going after you die is a grave.
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For lack of a better word, ARGH. I sincerely hope by "they" you don't mean The Westboro Fucktard Church. You know, I'm sorry they did what they did after the shootings Aly, but it doesn't mean that THEY REPRESENT THE FAITH AS A WHOLE.

Everyone judges.

Everyone asks for money.

The 1956 US Anti-Communist Government put "In God We Trust" as our National Motto. It wasn't Christians in general, it was just those who HAPPENED to be in power, as a way to advance their own agenda.

Neoconservatives have been amending and removing "rights" in so many words, for eight years. They're doing it in the name of national security, not in the name of religion. So I have zero idea where that logic comes from.

Sadly I've lost a large amount of respect for you because you're raving as blindly in the opposite direction as those you so fervently despise.

I'll reiterate: It's a fucking shame what happened at your school, and it's even worse that those assholes came and picketed in their fashion. They may think they speak for the Christian faith as a whole, but I assure you they do not. However, no amount of me telling you that they aren't our spokespersons, they aren't our beacon of hope, they aren't our heralds, will seemingly convince you otherwise.


Good day to you, sir.
 
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