gore 10 year plan possible? and better?

hellstorm

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Gore spoke yesterday about his plan for a carbon neutral U.S in 10 years. Here a report. I watch some of it yesterday and he make some good points. People are griping because it going cost a lot but is it really that much? This plan will bring new jobs, better working environments, cleaner living. If electricity did not cost much to make then electric cars would be a decent replacement to gas. Yet this plan need people full support, you can't have 1 or 2 division on this, you need everyone involvement. Now people still going need oil and gas to run things but this would be a big start to solving a ever growing crisis.

here a abridged version of the speech


full version


thoughts? comments?
 
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Well... he got some of the big words right but he still is missing alot of the small ones.

I completely agree that we need drastic change to the methods that we get energy in this country. I completely agree that we should try to expand our alternative fuels programs. I think that we should produce commercial energy as cleanly as possible but what he is suggesting is fiscal suicide.

First off we need to get more people driving hybrids and so forth but giving people money through subsidies and grants is not the way... keeping gas prices where they are though may be.

We need to stop using coal and gas power plants to produce electricity but u cannot just go around closing all of them without some kind of a phase out project and 10 years is not nearly enough for that seeing as it takes 5 years just to build a nuclear power plant and that is if the plans are already completed. In addition to that as far as i know there are only two companies in the US at the moment that are capable of constructing a nuclear power plant at the moment and they are Westinghouse electric and AREVA. (I know this because my dad works for Westinghouse..) And beyond meeting our power expectations to phase out the coal and gas plants unless 25+ nuclear plants are built in the next 20 years the entire country is going to be having brown outs like California was having a few years ago. And the only reason they are not still having them is that they now buy power from Palo Verde NGS in Arizona for exorbinate rates (not to mention the amount of line loss along the way) to meet the demand on their grid.

I for one may not like paying the gas rates at the level that we currently are but the problem is not really supply and is more that our prices are just catching up with the rest of the year.. As any European and they pay the equivalent of 8 dollars a gallon for their gas but what do u know you don't see many SUVs over there.

The thing that we need to do is get the government out of the belief that they can fix the problem and let the two most powerful forces in the world go to work... supply and demand. If the government would get rid of the regulations that make it so that we can drill off shore thats a start but hardly a solution. As much as this is going to hurt people in the short term to have higher gas prices it is a good thing because it will make it easier for people to make the decision to buy more efficient vehicles in the future. Obama is a dumbass saying that we should make minimum requirements on mpg in vehicles let the people decide what they are willing to pay for and i guarantee once they see a noticeable difference in their pocketbooks they will make the decision on their own to be efficient and if they don't then they cant piss and moan when they cant afford to drive somewhere.

As far as solar and wind is concerned they are good but they hardly work in all places or at least not consistently enough. I mean if these green people were really serious in solving our energy problem the best place to start would be to get people to use photovoltaic shingles on their roof. Covering one part of a house in them can easily produce more energy than the house can use and everything beyond what your house can use gets dumped into the grid if you have it hooked up correctly and then the electric company has to pay you the same rates as it charges if your meter runs backwards. http://www.oksolar.com/roof/

The problem is atm this takes about 100k to do a roof with them and i will use my electric bill for example which is ~350/month. Which means if i was neutral with the electric company it would take 23.8 years with nothing breaking for me to get my investment back. If they were able to make it 25k it would be an investment that i guarantee people would take seeing as that would be just under 6 years and probably less than that seeing as i live in AZ and it is always really fucking sunny outside.

If demand is there entrepreneurs will make the supply.

We also need to stop borrowing money from everyone let alone china... This means first and foremost stop the war but also we need to get rid of alot of government agencies that are more or less useless like department of education, department of homeland security, fema, the DEA, EPA, ATF, FBI, etc. Im not saying that we should have no government agencies but only those that are vital to us surviving at home and not those that can be done by state and local governments.

In order to revive the economy and get the snowball rolling again we need to also get lower/get rid of income taxes and most of the business taxes. We are losing jobs to outsourcing not only due to our labor cost but also because we have like the 3rd highest cooperate taxes in the world.. Who wants to open a business here not to mention the threat of windfall profits taxes if your company does too well.

America used to stand for something and it was Life, Liberty and property or the pursuit of happiness. However any more we are losing the liberties daily, we are having trouble going for the property thing because of too much regulation and people are losing their asses due to the credit situation so there is no more pursuit of happiness for some... Need to take the ball out of the governments hands tho while we still got life... cause i'm damn sure they gonna fuck that one up soon.

Governments responsibility is to keep me safe from other people foreign and domestic. Not to take care of everyone inside and outside of the country by giving away my money. If they stay in their country who gives a fuck what they do they can pray to my fucking left ass cheek if it makes em happy. But we really need to stop the "spread democracy" and "coddle the poor" bullshit that is currently happening.
 
Al Gore's enviromental plans are too radical. His philosophy is "fix the enviroment at any means necessary"

While I agree it needs to be done, and soon, there is absolutely no reason or need to cripple the country (possibly the world) economy in doing so.
 
We also need to stop borrowing money from everyone let alone china... This means first and foremost stop the war but also we need to get rid of alot of government agencies that are more or less useless like department of education, department of homeland security, fema, the DEA, EPA, ATF, FBI, etc. Im not saying that we should have no government agencies but only those that are vital to us surviving at home and not those that can be done by state and local governments.

This is something you definitely do NOT want. While you may think that others can do it, education is the most important thing, and it is NOT something you should try to save money on, ever.
 
This is something you definitely do NOT want. While you may think that others can do it, education is the most important thing, and it is NOT something you should try to save money on, ever.

Also dont outsource the exam marking to private companies, our government did this for 14 year olds exams to some American company, piles of them were lost, piles were marked wrong and piles have been sent back to schools unmarked >.>
 
Education in the US is as shitty as it is because of the department of education. We are forced to make the teachers dumb down their lessons so that "no child is left behind" when it leaves every child behind. Without the DOE standardized testing and funding based upon performance we could make it so that the good students have the ability to excel again.

Then again i am also a firm believer that people should be allowed to attend the schools of their choosing not just the ones that they are closest to.
 
Al Gore's enviromental plans are too radical. His philosophy is "fix the enviroment at any means necessary"

While I agree it needs to be done, and soon, there is absolutely no reason or need to cripple the country (possibly the world) economy in doing so.
Say that when we are too late to solve this problem because we didint to "cripple" the worlds economy. Because there will be no place to be left.
 
Say that when we are too late to solve this problem because we didint to "cripple" the worlds economy. Because there will be no place to be left.

You won't be alive. Not because of Global warming, because these people change the dates on their "apocalypse" all the time. First, it was 10 years ago (They said this in the 70s) then it was forecast to happen 5-10 years from the 90s, and now it's forecast somewhere in the next 50 years.
 
If the world as a whole won't cooperate...what's the point? U.S.A alone can't make up for the crap other nations spew in the air, which is why this is utterly pointless.
 
Global warming isn't real.
It is as real as your mother. however, it is, mostly, due to natural causes (as I've written in a long post earlier). that does not, however, mean you can slack of. Humans still contribute to it, and what we humans contribute to it, might just be enough to tip the scale.

If the world as a whole won't cooperate...what's the point? U.S.A alone can't make up for the crap other nations spew in the air, which is why this is utterly pointless.
The world is already cooperating. A lot of countries, mainly all of Europe, and the main nations of Asia, already have the Kyoto agreement, which the states refused to sign until lately. All of Europe, for example, are making their best effort to let out as little greenhouse gases as possible. Trust me when I say U.S.A would NOT be alone trying to make up for the crap all other nations spew out. Sweden is already way ahead of most other countries in EU, and have been asked to make up for their losses, as a lot of countries, like Germany, are behind the European plans.

So no, you would not be alone. Yes, there are countries that just don't seem to care, like China, but just because some countries don't care, doesn't give you a reason to simply not care. Show you are the better country by being the bigger man and try to, at least, make up for your own pollution.
 
Say that when we are too late to solve this problem because we didint to "cripple" the worlds economy. Because there will be no place to be left.


Here's the way I see it: global climate change (the new PC term) is going to happen regardless of human factors or not. Human contributions may be speeding up the process, but the process is there regardless. Knowing this, which path would be better:

A) drastic measures to cut all emissions that may or may not have a noticeable effect on climate change, which drastically hurt our economy, throwing more people worldwide into poverty, and leaving us with less wealth to pay for the inevitable repercussions of climate change

OR

B) a more gradual approach to reducing emissions that may or may not have a noticeable effect on climate change, which leaves our economy in a stronger position to deal with any repercussions of said climate change.

Ten years is just too short, it's just not feasible economically or technologically. It does need to happen, and things do need to start moving in that direction. But we can't just fly into it willy-nilly and expect everything to turn out just fine.
 
Here's the way I see it: global climate change (the new PC term) is going to happen regardless of human factors or not. Human contributions may be speeding up the process, but the process is there regardless. Knowing this, which path would be better:

A) drastic measures to cut all emissions that may or may not have a noticeable effect on climate change, which drastically hurt our economy, throwing more people worldwide into poverty, and leaving us with less wealth to pay for the inevitable repercussions of climate change

OR

B) a more gradual approach to reducing emissions that may or may not have a noticeable effect on climate change, which leaves our economy in a stronger position to deal with any repercussions of said climate change.

Ten years is just too short, it's just not feasible economically or technologically. It does need to happen, and things do need to start moving in that direction. But we can't just fly into it willy-nilly and expect everything to turn out just fine.

Money can't do everything, the effect of the climate change can't even be said with 100% accuracy how it will affect us.
 
No, but it will affect us. I'm willing to bet that, even if we try to prevent it or don't do anything to "get a better economy", our economy will be equally bad in either case. One situation. One scenario just lead to a better overall life during the bad economy.
 
This is something you definitely do NOT want. While you may think that others can do it, education is the most important thing, and it is NOT something you should try to save money on, ever.

In the United States, Education is supposed to be run by the states. It is to an extent, but the government also provides funding to the states for education. The problem is that if a state ever tries doing something the feds don't agree with, they threaten to pull funding. The money is there, but the federal government wants to have its hand in everything.
 
Which to some extent is good. The worst thing that can happen is a school that decides to teach their own morals and opinions to their students, instead of what is internationally accepted. Sure, its fine if they teach various versions and let the students chose themselves, but they shouldn't be biased in that case. You really don't want schools that teach out ONLY the biblical version of everything, which I can guarantee would happen if the schools themselves got to decide everything and how they should plan their courses.

Sure, the states deciding would be better as well, but at the same time, could be downsides to that too. imo, it is better to hold a national standard which every school follows as the bare minimum.
 
Education in the US is as shitty as it is because of the department of education. We are forced to make the teachers dumb down their lessons so that "no child is left behind" when it leaves every child behind. Without the DOE standardized testing and funding based upon performance we could make it so that the good students have the ability to excel again.

Then again i am also a firm believer that people should be allowed to attend the schools of their choosing not just the ones that they are closest to.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to denounce the bill of no child left behind rather than shaft the whole organization that has no choice to support it? Everything is held by regulations and rules of some sort, it's not like there is a choice in the matter.

I hate to say it as well, but a factor in education for students is how much teachers are paid. Doctors are charged with making sure people operate and function to the best of their abilities as possible in life, but teachers are charged with developing and shaping a person's way to think and respond to situations.

Why are the two similar professions paid different salaries of huge difference? Although increasing money doesn't make a better teacher, you can increase the salaries and the requirements to become a teacher(which i hear already...you must love the job itself not the money) more competitive and you will have overall more competent teachers.
 
The government has proved that the only things it does well is fucking things up. If the education system was given over to the private sector, and a choice was given to parents as to where they get to choose their children to attend, competition between schools would foster a higher education rate and overall improve the entire system.

In theory...

Private schools, in all, are much better quality than government schools. The writing is on the wall.
 
10 years? "Carbon Neutral"? Not possible in any real sense. In an immediate sense, there's simply too much infrastructure built around the use of oil.

I do find it amusing that Al Gore's "plan" is... well... not a plan at all, so much as a series of utterly empty suggestions.

So.

Renewable energy. The problems with renewable energy sources are various. Pretty much all of the classic "renewable" sources are limited by location, output, and believe it or not, possible environmental repercussions. The last one is mostly the province of hydro power, but even wind and solar can have effects on the surrounding area. I recall a large number of animal rights activists fighting wind farms on the basis that they can kill migrating birds, and solar farms on the basis that they can utterly destroy local ecologies by simply placing a few square miles of mirrors/panels over top of it.

Now, there are options beyond those three that qualify as renewable energy. One in particular stands out as a definite solution to the problem, provided we're willing to deal with the repercussions of the solution.

Breeder Reactors.

Yes, they generate nuclear waste. Not much relative to the current generation of light water reactors though, and their fuel requirements are functionally nonexistent. Yes, they produce weapons-grade fissile material. So what? We can use that in reactors too.

Nuclear reactors have no limitations regarding output or location; you can build them anywhere and their output is measured in thousands of megawatts. (Needs more jiggawatts!) Their biggest problem is one of public perception, mostly brought about by the anti-nuclear energy lobby. Coal fired reactors, on a per-watt basis, produce roughly ONE THOUSAND times the released radiation as nuclear power.

Further proof that hippies are holding back the progress of the United States.

So, assuming we make the shift to a nuclear economy for our power generation needs, where does that leave us in terms of everything else?

The answer is: Still totally boned. Most American cities aren't really designed around pedestrian traffic, and our mass-transit systems are inadequate to cope with a huge additional influx of passengers. Fixing that problem would cost more money than most people realize, I expect, and it's just a minor footnote in the grand scheme of "screwed" that stands in the way of a carbon-neutral US.

How do products move from one side of the country to the other? By use of burning fossil fuels. Planes, trains, ships and trucks, all burn fossil fuels to move. Now, we can eliminate three of those, but for two of them the cost of doing so is again something that people aren't going to want to hear. Yep, that's right. Nuclear ships and trains. It'd be mostly the long-haulers, but yes, you can engineer a nuclear reactor down to fit into a train. Of course, it'd pretty much have to be a pebble bed reactor, but with all the plutonium we're generating in our new hypothetical nuclear economy, fueling them shouldn't be too much of an issue, and reinforcing the reactor vessel should limit the level of any potential disaster.

At some point we're going to have to get over this exaggerated, hysterical fear of nuclear power.

Now, sufficient research into battery technology for electric cars/trucks, and we'd be well on our way to being as "carbon neutral" as can be expected.

But it would cost more money than most people can imagine. We'd have to basically abandon all our extra-national military adventures, slash budgets to the bone, and quite possibly cripple our economy horribly in the short term, with long-term repercussions that could force the US out of its preeminent world position.
 
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