Guildleves and the 48 Hour Cool Down

[Reya]

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. WoW had the same kind of thing in place in beta before it was scraped shortly before release for the popular rested exp instead.

 

[Zaltana]

What SE really needs to do is lift some of the veil of secrecy obscuring the game mechanics for their games. If not for the tireless work of a handful of testers, for example, we'd have no idea how thing like enmity, recasts, and whatnot actually worked in FFXI.

personally i feel this surplus of information had a big hand in turning FFXI from an MMO into a giant dick measuring contest. ToAU still lead the way though. I like the days when we played on instinct. Getting that feel through trial and error, and coming into the game through self discovery. I hope they keep this stuff under wraps as long as possible really.

 

[Alereth]

This exp surplus had me thinking...

I think it is more of like what we see in other MMOs like Aion, WoW and WAR. You get bonus exp for not being logged on for a certain amount of time. However, in FFXIV, they are taking this idea but applying the exp bonuses at the start of each week. So, after 8 hours, you no longer get a 100% bonus exp for killing a monster and get regular exp. Think of it like those exp bands you could get in FFXI with the 24 hour recharge rate. This would allow for people who can only play for a few hours a week to be on par with those who play for more than 8 hours a week.

I honestly think something was lost in translation on this issue.

*edit* Even the word "surplus" implies bonus

This sounds alot more likely than a penalty for playing too long.

 

[Anglis]

The surplus sucks. It's virtually telling you how to play the game. It gives you no choice..they FORCE you to level up another weapon within 8 hours of playing with a certain weapon. So if you really want to level up Puglist as your main..well after 8 hours of hand 2 hand for the first week, you'll get no exp in that weapon, forcing you to change weapons, which changes jobs. Now..it won't effect me since I'm a nursing student and will only be able to play twice a week at most, but still, I think it's wrong and the system is nothing like WoW's.

 

[Numa]

Hope its just a leveling cap in the Beta, to keep people from leveling beyond their created content. I'm assuming SE removes it before the release.

The Bonus system in WoW was great. Can't play for a few months? You'll earn a nice XP bonus when you get back so you can catch up with your friends. Too bad SE loves blaming the players for their own design flaws. Your friends have to stop leveling for a month so you can catch up at 4 hours a week.
I just hope it isn't SE's answer to XI's complaints of never having enough healers or tanks to go around in parties. Get peeps to play more jobs by limiting the jobs they like.

Then again, SE always was combative with the player base. Like when those DRKs figured out how to kill AV with K. clubs. Instead of congratulating them, SE's like: nope thats not the method we had in mind. NERF. WTF? At that point its like playing poker with a dealer who gets to pick whatever cards he wants from the deck.

Sorry for the mini rant. Sometimes SE does that to me.

 

[Tribalinius]

Didn't they say that the fatigue thing would be on a weekly basis? I though I read something on that maybe on kotaku or destructoid.

 

[Nyosan~]

Is the term "surplus" from Squeenix, or from the player base? From the description I've heard so far, it sounds like quite the opposite.

 

[Reya]

Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.

Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.

Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.

Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.

For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

This is how the progression system currently works.

This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:

- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)

That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.

We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.

The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.

At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.

We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.

The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.

We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

See you in the Open Beta Testing!

FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto

Again, people so quick to jump to conclusions ~_~

Told you it would be all right!

 

[Raesvelg]

Actually, it's not alright, it's just not quite as bad as people thought. They're still capping your maximum earnable exp, and strongly encouraging you to diversify rather than specialize.

I expect that they'll need to, at the very least, raise the thresholds if they expect people not to complain about this.

 

[Zaltana]

this will play into the hands of those that plan to lvl everything quite nicely, tho. and casual gamers to because they will likely never hit the maximum threshold. i'll wait till i actually try it to see what i think of it.

 

[Reya]

I'm not worried at all. At least it will help solve the age old MMO problem of "LFM Tank, Healer, CC"

It's a new style of game play, which I for one, am excited to see in motion. MMOs for the past decade have encouraged personal "E-Peen" and "what's in it for me" sort of style of game mechanics. I think the diversity type of gameplay will encourage more teamwork and take away some of that elist attitude that plagues the market. If you don't like it, stay with FFXI. FFXIV is a new type of animal. For myself, personally, being in a gaming design major, I am very very interested to see how this will play out. Fact of the matter is that now developers are seeing a new age of gaming which caters to a larger mass of people than ever before. As much as I don't like them, I am talking about your farmvilles and cafevilles and whatever-villes. Games are being designed with the "casual" player set in mind. That is where the money is. So what if SE loses a chunck of their player base because of this? I'd imagine they would gain twice that back with people looking to pick up an online game that they can progress in without having to put days and days worth of playtime into.

Pacing-wise, I am sure FFXIV is incomplete. Why would I want to rush to level cap just to sit around town doing nothing because there is a lack of content? (sup Aion?) To have you level more than one job will keep you busy, further customize your characters, and give them time to finish their content. It's a bold move.

It's 2010. I wouldn't be suprised to see something like this a new trend in MMOs.

**edit**

And to respond to the "it's my money, I won't let SE dictate to me when I can play my job!" It's a different game than FFXI or any other MMO out there right now. I used to go to the renaissance fair every year in the fall. My favorite was the jousting tourny at the end of the day. I still had to pay the full price of admission to see just that part of the fair. However, during the day, I got to explore the fair grounds and see a few shows, visit a few vendors, hang out with my friends and eat some yummy dragon burgers. What I am trying to say is, there is more to the game than killing monsters for exp. There is a lot to explore. Why rush to the end? If I ended up coming to the fair at the end of the day just in time to catch the jousting tournament, I never would of discovered that the local winery that helps sponser the fair has such great taste, or that I really enjoyed learning about glass blowing. Have to think outside of the box. The glass isn't always half empty

 

[Acutie]

Totally true Reya. I like what they're doing, it doesn't bother me personally but again it's gonna bother people who planned on playing 8 hours a day all week long. One of the things I hated about XI was how long it took to actually progress in anything and it's nice to see they're taking steps to change that. The system actually seems to be very lenient, especially in the fact that this threshold recovers itself when you do other things. I'm not in the beta or anything but maybe all it would take is juggling 2 or 3 different things to avoid the penalties altogether. Alternatively people could play a reasonable amount of time instead of 60 hours a week.

 

[Raesvelg]

Oh, the system as it stands doesn't matter much to me. Given my schedule these days, I doubt I'll ever hit the final threshold on exp during the week, and even if I do hit the skill point threshold, I've always liked to vary what I'm playing from time-to-time anyway, so it won't bother me overmuch.

But casual players, and even the average players, don't constitute the entirety of a game's player base. This sort of thing is going to upset the more hardcore players, and even if you accept that that's money SE won't be getting, it will restrict a segment of the population who is often very effective at selling your game.

And this isn't a case of making a game where casual players can progress. The game has that aspect to it, without the thresholds. This is forcibly limiting the people with more time to play to a pace determined by the developers, and theoretically more in line with what the "average" player can manage.

 

[Reya]

But casual players, and even the average players, don't constitute the entirety of a game's player base. This sort of thing is going to upset the more hardcore players, and even if you accept that that's money SE won't be getting, it will restrict a segment of the population who is often very effective at selling your game.

Casual and avarage constitute the majority out there today. There is no way to make everyone happy. Given the choice, of course you will go with the more popular choice to gain a larger subscription base. Word of mouth sells games.

 

[Zaltana]

Se would also gain more subscribers by that time honored and proven tradition: advertising! the last FF game commercial i can remember seeing it the one for FF8. WoW adds, i would see at least 5 a day just barely paying attention to the TV at work.

 

[Uzor]

this will play into the hands of those that plan to lvl everything quite nicely, tho. and casual gamers to because they will likely never hit the maximum threshold. i'll wait till i actually try it to see what i think of it.

It will hurt them too, though. How many casuals do you know that average less than 8 hours a week that play MMO's?

I'm not worried at all. At least it will help solve the age old MMO problem of "LFM Tank, Healer, CC"

How would it help solve the lack of tanks and healers? If anything, it will increase it. People loathe leveling healers and are unlikely to level them either way. The only thing it will do is prevent those that DO want to level healer classes, not do it, because they can no longer get any exp.

 

[Zaltana]

It will hurt them too, though. How many casuals do you know that average less than 8 hours a week that play MMO's?

say hello to college students that are more concerned with their degree then their epeen. Or adults that, like most of us, grew up with the early game systems, but are older now and have familes or other duties that require more attention then their endgame LS.

I'm glad that SE noticed the virus that infested FFXI, damnit I've been playing way to much starcraft, and are working on an antidote. Too many players now want to get to the finish line before they even know what they are racing for. That's what killed 11 for me for the most part.

 

[Rips]

Okay so let me just understand this, because so far I don't think this is too bad.

One threshold = 1 hour of exp and you have a total of 8 thresholds a week to use up (8 hours) until your exp starts hitting 0. Any exp after 0 is stored as "bonus skill points" which we don't know what they do yet.

The thresholds reset each week. You can also manually reset them by doing other in game activities which we're not sure of what they are yet.

If you switch from your exhausted Lancer for example over to say, Conjurer, you can start from the first threshold again and start earning max skill points again because thresholds are specific to class only.

This sounds not that bad, imo. Just have leveling 2 jobs at once in your agenda and you should be fine. The real question here is what we have to do to adjust the timer and how long it takes.

 

[Rips]

say hello to college students that are more concerned with their degree then their epeen. Or adults that, like most of us, grew up with the early game systems, but are older now and have familes or other duties that require more attention then their endgame LS.

I'm glad that SE noticed the virus that infested FFXI, damnit I've been playing way to much starcraft, and are working on an antidote. Too many players now want to get to the finish line before they even know what they are racing for. That's what killed 11 for me for the most part.

I see that you had a lot of jobs leveled in XI. Just how long did that take you anyway?

 

[Zaltana]

I see that you had a lot of jobs leveled in XI. Just how long did that take you anyway?

i didn't keep track actually. i remember i let my rdm sit at 74 for like a year just cause. took my time and explored other jobs. i always enjoyed exp parties so i never thought of them as a burden, or grind if you will. another edge that i had over many is that i made bout 90% of my exp parties.