Gun fired in NASA building

[Valandil]

I know it wont stop it, but it will lower their chances of obtaining one. Public area's will no longer be able to sell them, and the buyer will have to search harder, longer, to find his gun. Sure, the attacker can find a different weapon, but guns are probably the easiest weapon to kill someone with, without knowledge that "you" did it.

I dont know, its just a personal view. With gun stores being as common as a wal-mart, its just annoying to me.

Edit: We arent blaming guns, just their availability. Almost anyone can purchase a gun legally, which is our problem.

Kinda like how hard it is to buy drugs? Or how about how hard it was to obtain alcohol during the Prohibition era?

 

[RoM]

People who think getting ahold of unregistered/illegal firearms in this country is a big long tough ordeal as opposed to the hassle of getting them legally make me lol.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Kinda like how hard it is to buy drugs? Or how about how hard it was to obtain alcohol during the Prohibition era?

think about it if drugs were legal. Youre going to say there wouldnt be a difference? Same with alcohol. Its legal, and far more people drink it than that period in time.

 

[RoM]

think about it if drugs were legal. Youre going to say there wouldnt be a difference? Same with alcohol. Its legal, and far more people drink it than that period in time.

Because there's more people and mass production because it's .... legal.


The point is even with prohibition, stiff laws, and people being punished daily:

It didn't and does not work.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Because there's more people and mass production because it's .... legal.


The point is even with prohibition, stiff laws, and people being punished daily:

It didn't and does not work.

My point is being missed, I didnt say it will fix the problem, I said it was a step in the direction of fixing it. And it is. Anyone that denies that reducing availability of something will not help is just... I dont know what, but definitely stuck onto their opinions as if their facts, when its an obvious fact in itself that removing an item from public will help in reducing its use. There are thousands of examples of this, do I need to list any?

 

[Skaw]

My point is being missed, I didnt say it will fix the problem, I said it was a step in the direction of fixing it. And it is. Anyone that denies that reducing availability of something will not help is just... I dont know what, but definitely stuck onto their opinions as if their facts, when its an obvious fact in itself that removing an item from public will help in reducing its use. There are thousands of examples of this, do I need to list any?

The only thing it'll do is remove guns from the hands of people who won't do anything illegal with them, and those that have the possibility to stop the ones that will. Such a step in the right direction!

What really needs to be done, is making prison less of a daycare.

 

[Flameass]

just a few stats i found

Murders committed with handguns annually:

United States   8,915
Switzerland        53
Sweden             19
Canada              8
United Kingdom      7

Murder rate (per 100,000 people):

United States   8.40
Canada          5.45
Denmark         5.17
Germany         4.20
Norway          1.99
United Kingdom  1.97
Sweden          1.73
Japan           1.20
Finland         0.70

Just a little something to think about

 

[Ruffyreborn]

The only thing it'll do is remove guns from the hands of people who won't do anything illegal with them, and those that have the possibility to stop the ones that will. Such a step in the right direction!

What really needs to be done, is making prison less of a daycare.

lol, Prison isnt the problem...

 

[Makelith]

lol, Prison isnt the problem...

Have you ever had a family member in prision/been in/visited a prision or are you just going off of movies?

My sister went to prision and it didn't even have a fence around it, i'd say that qualifies as a day care.

My brother went to prision and he still tells me to this day how much nicer it was than his house is. He almost wants to commit more crimes to get sent back.

 

[Celvantes]

Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States; all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the said Constitution, namely:
Amendment I



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II


A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

[continued]

Anytime idiots bring up the issue of gun control, I just point to one of the founding documents of this country. If you don't like it, there are hundreds of other nations on earth that you can emmigrate to.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind seeing more people emmigrate out of the US... it'd make more room for the millions waiting (or not waiting and just coming here anyway) to immigrate into the country.

 

[Dayner]

too much freedom ;p

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Have you ever had a family member in prision/been in/visited a prision or are you just going off of movies?

My sister went to prision and it didn't even have a fence around it, i'd say that qualifies as a day care.

My brother went to prision and he still tells me to this day how much nicer it was than his house is. He almost wants to commit more crimes to get sent back.

yup, my brother, and my uncle. I think Im qualified to comment on this. I think its awfully funny, though, that people seem to comment against me, just to do it. Im being quoted, and told Im wrong about a fact, and then those people turn around and say prison is a day care. It sounds like you guys just have some kind of personal problem with me, and thats fine, but stop telling people that facts are wrong, just because you dont like them. Thats just... Well, blind, and retarded.

And idk what prisons youre talking about, but they must not have been actual prisons, bub. I can vouch for that

 

[Skaw]

Saying gun crime will go down if guns are made illegal isn't a fact, unless it actually happens it's just speculation. It doesn't matter if it has worked in other countries. We are not Canda. We are not England.

just a few stats i found

Murders committed with handguns annually:

United States   8,915
Switzerland        53
Sweden             19
Canada              8
United Kingdom      7

Murder rate (per 100,000 people):

United States   8.40
Canada          5.45
Denmark         5.17
Germany         4.20
Norway          1.99
United Kingdom  1.97
Sweden          1.73
Japan           1.20
Finland         0.70

Just a little something to think about

No link?

And how many of those are gang related? Thats a statistic that doesn't need to be lumped in with everything else, cause they'll kill who they want with anything.

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Who the hell blames guns anymore? Everyone knows its Video Games! JEEZE!

\sarcasm

Im waiting for Thomspon to start bitching about Doom or something like that. "Guns in space! See what video games teach astronauts?"

 

[Athilorian]

But knowing there are people that do is what keeps this country from becoming a rights-stripping tax hog again.

How exactly? Are you suggesting that politicians are afraid to do so because they're worried that citizens with guns will murder them? One would think the reason they don't do such things is that opposition parties would prevent such actions through legal means, thus ensuring their re-election to the position of power they've worked so hard to obtain.

As for the banning of guns preventing gun crime, there would still be occurances, especially in areas where there is a gang culture and access to firearms from a blackmarket. But the likelyhood of a heartbroken/bullied teen snapping and grabbing a gun from dad's cabinet to go on a shooting rampage would be greatly reduced.

Yes, saying gun crime will go down if guns are banned isn't a fact, it's just speculation. But you never know til you try do you?

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Yes, saying gun crime will go down if guns are banned isn't a fact, it's just speculation. But you never know til you try do you?

Your whole thought process is retarded. Your saying "lets take the guns away to see if crime goes down."

If crime doesnt go down, should we just give the guns back? Gee, great idea.
Even if guns go away, you still have knives, grenades, bows, and swords.

Not to mention the various ILLEGAL ways guns will be obtained.

Besides, do you think anyone who shot someone bought the gun to do something legal?

If they are already planning on breaking the law, illegally obtaining a gun isn't going to slow them at at all.

 

[Athilorian]

Your whole thought process is retarded. Your saying "lets take the guns away to see if crime goes down."

Classic QCDN <3 I posed a question, not a statement. Plus you also ignored the above point where I said there would still be occurances, acknowledging that there would still be illegal means to obtain guns, that's what a blackmarket is.

As for your last point, if they're planning on commiting a crime, then yes it's reasonable to assume that they will be able to obtain a gun somehow. But "Snapping and grabbing a gun from dad's cabinet" doesn't imply planning, it's a reactive action.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

here are some analogies that are just as relevant:

#1 Removing all the water from public access points will result in the death of a lot of people.

#2 Banning prostitution will not lower the prostitution rates.

#3 Logging all wooded area's will result in a major drop of O2, and a drastic increase of CO2.

Would you say this is all speculation? Basically, what youre saying (in relation to gun crimes) is that:

#1 No, it will not result in population decrease

#2 No, if prostitution was legal, the rates would be the same

#3 No, the same amount of O2 and CO2 would be present as before




The original post:

I know it wont stop it, but it will lower their chances of obtaining one.

And the responses:

The point is even with prohibition, stiff laws, and people being punished daily: It didn't and does not work.


Keep thinking that. No, seriously. It's the worst logic ever. It won't lower their chances of obtaining one, at all. If they want a gun to aid them in their acts, they're going to get one. It's almost easier to obtain a gun illegaly than it is to get one legally, you're just going to pay a lot more. It's also going to be faster to obtain(no waiting period,) and harder to trace back to you(no records.)

A more relevant response, instead of some analogies? Heavy Firearms and high explosives. Not sold publicly (legally), without license, and although crimes still happen involving them, not near as high as handguns. Keep thinking removing access from certain items will not help.

 

[Skaw]

How exactly? Are you suggesting that politicians are afraid to do so because they're worried that citizens with guns will murder them? One would think the reason they don't do such things is that opposition parties would prevent such actions through legal means, thus ensuring their re-election to the position of power they've worked so hard to obtain.

Congratulations, you have no idea how this country works. Before the elections causing the Democrats to take the house and senate away from the Republicans, the Republicans had a clean sweep, effectively killing Checks and Balances. Which is why they got away with as much crap as they did.

Yes, I'm suggesting the reason why a party with all branches of government in their back pocket wouldn't try to turn everything into a Totalitarian form is because of the possibility of an armed rebellion. Like the one that birthed this country. Opposing parties have no power if they're a minority. Do you honestly think things like The Patriot Act would have gotten passed if they did?

As for the banning of guns preventing gun crime, there would still be occurances, especially in areas where there is a gang culture and access to firearms from a blackmarket. But the likelyhood of a heartbroken/bullied teen snapping and grabbing a gun from dad's cabinet to go on a shooting rampage would be greatly reduced.

Yes, saying gun crime will go down if guns are banned isn't a fact, it's just speculation. But you never know til you try do you?

So let's punish everyone for the acts of the few. Such a fair method. Lil Timmy going on a school shooting is still an illegal aquisition of a firearm, regardless if his father/mother have purchased it legally. Theres not a whole lot stopping him from buying one illegally in the first place if he has the money to. Even on a part time job working for McDonalds, he'd be able to get one fairly fast. I know one of you morons are going to counter that Blackmarket Bill isn't going to sell to a minor, but guess what? He's already breaking the law, it won't stop him. If a kid has cash, he'll happily give them what they want.

A more relevant response, instead of some analogies? Heavy Firearms and high explosives. Not sold publicly (legally), without license, and although crimes still happen involving them, not near as high as handguns. Keep thinking removing access from certain items will not help.

Yes, it's not nearly as high as handguns, because you can't exactly walk around discretely with an assault weapon, or explosives. The only thing that'll change is the amount of illegal handgun murders going up to 100%. I wouldn't be suprised if 60% or so of those handgun murder averages posted were already illegals, so thats not a whole lot of change there.

 

[Strid]

Outlawing guns is probably the most retarded excuse to the problem I've heard yet. Takin' guns away from the people who'll use them correctly wont solve anything. How about instead of blaming a product or device for the downfall of society, though I think there is no downfall here I'll play along so the hippies get it, blame the people. The biggest problem with America, not that I feel we have too many honestly (more whiners than anything), today isn't anything more than missplacing the blame for actions to escape the real problems. Bad parenting, horrible school systems, and adult misguidence are far more detrimental to our society than any device.