Gun < *insert ranged weapon here*

[Vlishgnath]

Just because this really had no place in a flame about someone's job skills.

Also if you think using a gun in exp pty is good you are an idiot. Even with Hellfire+1 (the best gun) Ebow or Obow will outdamage it. And if you cant afford Ebow or hellfire+1, then compare HC+1 to Musketeer+1 and gun still wont win. So please know what you are talking about before you post.

K.

Thanks for the civil response. I'm glad you're willing to backup your claims with actual data and not resorting to, well, we can see how you actually put it.

I see that you are a level 72 Ranger from your sig. Congratulations! I'm glad to see that you are saving cash by not using a gun at that level range. I was very happy do hit 60 and do the same. And I'll continue to be very happy doing so at 70 if I've managed to get myself that much coveted Othinus bow. But you seem to be implying that there is never a single point in the game that a gun is useful, at any capacity whatsoever, to exp with. I'm sure if you deal in blacks and whites and mathematics in dmg + delay = win methodology, yeah, you might have an argument there that proves over a 3 hour session, a gun does not have the numbers. Unfortunately there's a mechanism built into the game that causes you to, on occasion, miss. Yep, a gun, while more accurate, definately has more delay, so that hurts.

But, you know what? Go ahead and do us a favor and get parsed data for every level range starting from the first available equipable gun/xbow/bow and hit us up with the results. Then do it again. And again. And again. I'd be interested in seeing the exact numbers, because really, I bet there will be times where a gun's high dmg numbers beat out a crossbow's delay.

I personally liked the damage I did in the 50's with my gun. My parties liked the damage I did with my gun in the 50's. My accuracy liked the damage I did with my gun in the 50's.

Does that truly make one a gimp?

 

[Veteran]

O-Bow > any gun

However, if there is already a RNG in the party with an O-Bow, the second RNG would definitely do better damage with a gun--debuffing the mob twice won't do anything. If a RNG has no O-Bow, then a gun is a perfectly acceptable substitute. It's funny to see how elitist Kon is being when there is a thread about him filled with people talking about how much he sucks.:roll:

 

[Rones]

FFXIonline ranger forums have seen lots of discussion and parser data on this subject. Here is one thread courtesy of imac who is quite a reliable source (check out his WS damage thread.). The general conclussion is ebow and obow does indeed outperform gun by a signifigant margin in exp pre hellfire ws.

Another thread imac discusses in I would like to quote here. Scroll down near the bottom for imac's post with 2 parser logs.

I think it changes at 70 with hellfire since slugshot+barrage for 102% TP is too sexy to pass up, but from lv 55-69 (14 level range!) E-bow is extremely useful. At 70 sell it and buy some dusk trousers, mermaid rings, war boots, etc.

As for the feasibility of gun before hellfire: I think the damage is generally on par with e-bow from 55-59, very likely greater. From 60 it has totally changed due to demon arrows and Unlimitedshot+PPA. Thanks to PPA every 3 minutes, my sidewinders are more accurate than silver bullet slugshots and just as powerful. With demon arrows on skimmers at lv 60 I was doing 148 damage a shot and with silver bullets 156 damage a shot. 6 points of damage difference, yet e-bow is MUCH faster than musk gun + s. bullet: given this data I'd assume that for normal ranged attack demon arrow + e-bow has greater DoT. Gun will outdamage e-bow with barrage, but will it be enough?

Guns do appear to have their place from 55-59 at least. I'm not expert on rngs, but there is lots of good information to found on the matter.

Thread explaining why to use gun for hnm/gods.

 

[Reality]

in pure DOT at 75 in exp pt

ebow > master caster's / shigeto +1 > Hellfire +1 > Obow

i haven't used a shigeto +1, but just by it's stats it should be at least equal to master cast'ers, if not slightly better

 

[Firestreak]

He is talking about different level ranges having different efficiencies. O-bow is level 67, yet Konartist is using this level 67 weapon to justify guns as useless at all level ranges.

I also don't really think E-bow is too terribly fair a comparison... considering it's at what, 12-14 mill now? Aren't enough Eurytos bows being made every month to supply a noticable percentage of the ranged with them, so it certainly can't be demanded.

 

[Reality]

Aren't enough Eurytos bows being made every month

Ebow is a rare drop from an NM in Fei'yin, definitely not worth more than 4 mil or so, but now that the gil sellers are able to work 24/7, there is more than enough gil to supply people who visit IGE.com, thus people jack the prices because they know 12-14 million gil really isn't much when you buy it from IGE in mass quantities

 

[Konartist]

Like an idiot I used gun from level 52-72 and used bow to skill up my archery. I thought gun was better. I was wrong. I dont need to parse dmg to tell you that crossbows and regular bows will outdamage a gun in DOT. The only real advantage you get from gun is more WS dmg. And if your puller you can throw the gun idea out the window. Good luck getting chain 5 when your gun+bullet has 900 delay. Also I'd just like to note that crossbow will help your pty do more dmg as well with acid bolts, so dont call me an elitest when you dont know what the fuck you are talking about veteran. I dont claim to know shit about PLD. And to the OP, I wasnt being mean I was simply saying that gun is gimp for exp.

on a side note, I own a hellfire, MC, and Shigeto and a HC+1. I dont even own a Obow yet, MC, Shigeto and HC+1 out dmg gun.

I mean honestly how can you think that 30 more dmg per shot and 2-3 as much delay will do more dmg than a regular crossbow or bow?

And your partys wont ever say anything to you, just like they never said anything to me while I was spamming 400 gil per shot, cause you still do a ton of dmg.

edit: also you're right that was not a very civilized response, I apologize for that.
edit#2: Im on ps2 so I think its impossible to run a parser.

again not trying to be mean just my experience.

oh and Firestreak I'm not saying obow, Im saying any decent xbow+1. Oh and guns do have their place in FFXI, on the shelf, till you zone into Hall of the gods that is.

 

[Eladamiri]

From my expierence from 60 and on... I used gun 60->67 and it was very good for me.. especially when i got ion 3x rng party...i even had the pleasure of doing a HC+1, muskateer+1, and ebow pt when i was 63 ish... the ebow rng sucked.. i have no idea why.. but damage was horrible..

imo, until Obow, gun and ebow are tied.... Ive used Obow since 67 because it is a very good weapon, helps the party, and is cheap

Obow is very good in melee heavy parties, and even in 3x rng pt if all 3 rng are using obow its still decent

 

[Anderithe]

I've been using the Serpentine Gun leveling my Ranger to forty so far. I have found that it does more damage to make up for it's delay, but the damage also seems more consistent on mobs with higher defense.

I don't know how the damage difference is factored, but on higher def mobs the gun seems more consistent in it's DOT. On bats and softer targets the bows definately seem to shine though.

Maybe it's the dmg ammo for guns vs the dmg bow for bows... :?

Also, the guns higher dmg isn't just per shot, but on your WS and barrage as well. That'd be like only counting a drg/war's berzerk on their normal attacks and not their jumps.

Just what I've noticed so far.

 

[Stouter]

I used gun for a few levels in the early 50's, then bow the rest of the way to 60, and used heavy xbow+1/o-bow ever since. I swapped to hellfire at 70 for one session with my static, and found that it slowed down the exp rate for us. Without the acid bolts, my heavy shots (SC with thf) were doing about the same, or less damage than with obow.

I ranger cannon for merits now at 75, and often do comparable per shot damage to people using hellfire (after factoring in the added holy damage) with a smaller delay, and more often than not outdamage their slug shots. This is against decorative weapons.

Against aura statues, or gods, or any other mob that will frequently resist acid/holy bolts, gun puts obow to shame. I can't speak for bow, I haven't used one in exp for a long time, and I have no plans to use one in the future.