H2H weapons-Advice

Anglis

Anglis

Genkai Conqueror
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Anglis (retired)
Alright im getting close to CC's. I have the gil to go ahead and buy them, but I've seen a few people say they aren't worth it.

Cross Counters- Level 50 (good for cap), 19dmg, +5counter, +3acc. Dly +96, -10 evasion.
So at this level they are the best available. High dmg and very high WS dmg.

T.M Hooks +2- Level 52- 16dmg, +10 att, def -10, Dly+71.
More affordable, and from what I hear as you get higher level they get better then CC's?

Spartan Cesti- level 58- 20dmg, Acc +3, Dly +113. H


So my question from you Mnks are, are the CC's really worth the extra gil, or should I get them then trade them for T.M Hooks +2 later on, or keep them till Spartan Cesti, or are the Spartans ever worth it?
 
If you have a high lvl friend you can get them to help you camp the NM. It's free and you get a nifty R/ex version.
 
I'd actually be interested to hear the opinions of others on this as well. I'm leaning more towards the T.M. Hooks right now though, just for efficiency, since the Cross Counters look more like an extravegant toy.
 
Cross-counters are the best weapons at their level and you can use them all the way to 75 if you want. That beign said, they're not that much better than TM+2, so it's a matter of personal preference. I've out parsed elvaan monks with CC's using bone patas +1 before; so if you don't go for CC, your damage is not going to suffer enough to really worry about. They are the best for soloing though, if you plan to do that you might want to go ahead and get them.

Spartans I wouldn't use until 60 when you get another martial arts to offset the higher delay. They're also not bad, but you can get other weapons which will be much faster for a little less per-hit damage. If you buy the cross-counters, I'd just skip everything until destroyers; you've got an endgame weapon already so there wouldn't be much gain in ditching them until you get to the best h2h weapons out there.

Edit: is there anywhere in the rest of your gear that could use an upgrade? If you don't have something like O kote, I'd go for that over CC's because it would have a larger effect on your performance.
 
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Hi,

I had recently in the same dilemma as you are now, except that I don't have the money to afford CCs. My monk was about to turn 50 and I stopped xping to figure out which route to go.
From what my MNK friends told me CCs (or Retaliators) are really good for WSs and if you are the first provoke in PT, counter +5 is a blessing. TM Hooks +2 will be better for DoT cause of +10 att.
So to summarize what they told me, both weapons are good, it just depends on the route you want to go for and the size of your wallet.

I got VERY lucky and obtained the Retaliators (1/3), I think Galiant went 1/21 that's an extreme case and I'm very happy that he finally got those. But that NM might not be a reasonable option for some, its window is 8-16hrs after death, the location is remote so it is a pain to get there. If you have a LV75 job and are using windower, you could probably leave it there and get TOD, then start camping it on the next window.
 
I've gone from TM+1 to spartans and haven't noticed much of a difference, but they do seem to have a slight advantage when you get that extra martial arts trait around 60 to cut down the delay a bit.

I actually had Destroyers for the longest time and decided when I was breaking latents on other weapons that I'd break the latent on my Destroyers as well, I didn't see a major change in the damage after the latent was passed though, is this because I did it on RDM/MNK and the only H2H skill I had to go on was from my sub and the lack of melee power that RDM has?

Edit: That +2 acc on the spartans is somewhat useful when there aren't many affordable choices in the acc items for MNK, a little acc boost never hurts when it's in the right slot.
 
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Great post Baja. I'll probably get the Hooks and earn the XCounters later, just to keep steam rolling along. I've got O.Kote, Brown Belt, Jujitsi Gi, woodsman ring x2, and a couple other goodies, so right now my biggest concern is making sure I've got the weapon slot taken care of. (Even though I'm only level 42 atm, I'm hoping to be 50+ by the weekend!)
 
At level 73 you have 266 HTH Skill:
Base Damage: 32.00
Base Delay: 320

(DPS = Damage per Second)


Cross-Counters: 14.712 DPS
TM+2: 14.731 DPS
Wagh Baghnakhs: 15.789 DPS
Hades Sainti: 16.173 DPS
Destroyers: 16.304 DPS (Unlocked)
Hades Sainti +1: 16.585 DPS

At level 74 you have 271 HTH Skill
Base Damage: 32
Base Delay: 320

Cross-Counters: 14.712 DPS
TM+2: 14.731 DPS
Wagh Baghnakhs: 15.789 DPS
Hades Sainti: 16.173 DPS
Destroyers: 16.304 DPS
Hades Sainti +1: 16.585 DPS

At level 75 you have 276 HTH (with 2 merits, you increase your hand to hand skill to 280)
Base Damage: 33
Base Delay 300

Cross-Counters: 15.758 DPS (same DPS you would have using Feral Fangs lol)
TM+2: 15.849 DPS
Wagh Baghnakhs: 17.000 DPS
Hades Sainti: 17.436 DPS
Destroyers: 17.586 DPS (Unlocked)
Hades Sainti +1: 17.880 DPS

At level 75, your third merit in HTH increases your base damage to 34. On the 8th and last merit, your base damage increases to 35.

This actually widens the gap between a High delay weapon like Cross counters and a lower delay weapon like Waghs, TM+2’s, and Destroyers:

At level 75 with HTH Merits 8/8 your HTH Skill is 292
Base Damage: 35
Base Delay: 300

Cross-Counters: 16.364 DPS (Again equivalent to Feral Fangs)
TM+2: 16.496 DPS
Wagh Baghnakhs: 17.667 DPS
Hades Sainti: 18.120 DPS
Destroyers: 18.276 DPS
Hades Sainti +1: 18.567 DPS

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So in summary, up to level 72, Cross-Counters have a higher DPS than TM+2 (but not by a very wide margin at all.) At level 72, the DPS of TM+2 passes that of Cross-Counters (again by a very little margin.)

At level 73, TM+2 finally have a higher DPS than Cross-Counters. However at that point, both weapons are eclipsed by Waghs and Destroyers anyway.
Click to expand...

CC > Anything, period. They are amazing for taking hate. Whilst soloing T Rumble Crawlers using Counterstance, I ripped out an 83% counter rate. Perhaps it was just luck but four hours of it was pretty sweet. Your choice though.

As the above said however, make SURE you have the right gear first.
O.Kote > ANYTHING
Brown Belt next
Juju Gi
Scorp Harness for 57

If you are without those things, stop leveling until you get them. :)
 
I've got everything Excim has, and what you would expect from a MNK. The only piece im missing is the Voyager Sallet (guess ill never get it :/).

So Baja, you went the CC route?
 
Nope, I did:

tourney patas(40)
patas(48 )
bone patas +1(56)
vishnu cesti(67)
destroyers (73)

I would have gone cross-counters if I could have afforded them at the time, but I spent my money on other gear; and like I said, I outparsed an elvaan monk wearing cross-counters with my bone patas +1. They won't make or break your monk, but they will help a little.
 
Bajaratt said:
Nope, I did:

tourney patas(40)
patas(48 )
bone patas +1(56)
vishnu cesti(67)
destroyers (73)

I would have gone cross-counters if I could have afforded them at the time, but I spent my money on other gear; and like I said, I outparsed an elvaan monk wearing cross-counters with my bone patas +1. They won't make or break your monk, but they will help a little.
Click to expand...


Haha yeah I guess at the time they were probably like 8 mil or so. I'll probably go with CC, or till 60ish at least when I get more Martial Arts. Then ill go with either Spartan or T.M Hooks +2
 
I used CC's all the way up till Wagh Bagnkoks (sp? to lazy to check). I loved the CCs, great damage and everything. As Baj said though, only get them if you have every other slot mostly filled with the right gear, ie snipers or equiv, brow belt, o kote, etc. As soon as I got destroyers I sold the CCs to get most of my money back.

Bilun
 
Cross-counters/Retaliators are just a great item to own anyway. Awesome for 50/60 cap. Awesome for 50-73 leveling. Awesome for soloing at any level beyond 50.
 
I used cross-counters when I levelled MNK. The extra base damage is quite noticeable especially in parties without melee support. Spartans work too, but the delay difference is pretty significant.

I've levelled 3 jobs through their 50s with hand-to-hand now. Cross counters are pretty much the nicest weapon I've used for those levels across said jobs.
 
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