Haditha's incident

Dayner

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Dayner Camelman
what is your views on the incident that happn in Haditha

for those that dont know the story .. ill make it short

A Marine Corps communique initially reported that 15 civilians were killed by the bomb's blast and eight insurgents were subsequently killed when the Marines returned fire against those attacking the convoy. However, media reports contradicted this story.[2] The evidence uncovered by the media prompted the US military to open an investigation into the incident. Evidence collected by this investigation "supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot civilians, including unarmed women and children",

more info abot it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings
 
Why would anyone go out of the way to kill random people while under attack? It doesn't seem to add up correctly.
 
guess ill post the long story

On November 20, 2005
the Marines had gone on a house-to-house rampage after a roadside bomb took one Marine life that belong to that unit , they went house to house killing everyone in it , Marines deliberately shot civilians, including unarmed women and children

then they tryed to cover it up by saying that they die by roadside bombing

but a Video shot by Iraqi journalist and founder of Hammurabi Human Rights Group Taher Thabet and cellphone photos reportedly taken by one of the Marines the day after the killings have been put forth as evidence that the killings were methodical and without resistance. The term "execution-style" has been used by US military officials to describe the killings. In particular, the video shot by Thabeth shows the bodies of the children and women with gunshot wounds, bullet holes in the interior walls of the house, and bloodstains on the floor

so far Four Marines have been charged with murder and four officers are accused of failing to investigate and report the deaths properly

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/12/21/iraq.haditha/index.html

that one of many army incident that happn in iraq
 
Shit happens. I hated to see the soldiers were charged, despite the evidence and "media" findings being rather lame. I think the jury just wanted to make a statemeant really. If they did in fact do it, I don't agree with their decision but I can understand how messed up you might become out there, given the right circumstances.
 
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I can see why they'd flip out over their buddy getting bombed, but raging on the civs in the area definitely wasn't a good idea. Course, we're relying on evidence from the media spiders which I've never been able to place full trust in.

If the brass believe what the media is showing them though, I'd consider it legit. These guys were either desperate to shoot something or mentally hammered from battle and just made the worst decision at the wrong time.
 
I suppose "stuff happens" isn't good enough.

I don't really consider that reason good enough pertaining to the innocent American lives lost on 9/11, or the beheadings of reporters, or soldiers dragged through the streets, hanged and burned either.

So forgive me when I say I don't really give a fuck.
 
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Sneakypants said:
I suppose "stuff happens" isn't good enough.

I don't really consider that reason good enough pertaining to the innocent American lives lost on 9/11, or the beheadings of reporters, or soldiers dragged through the streets, hanged and burned either.

So forgive me when I say I don't really give a fuck.

There is not and never has been any connection between what is happening in Iraq and the events of 9/11.

But yeah, let our military roam the world killing innocent civilians. Why should you care. It doesn't affect you. Right?

Then people wonder why other nations hate America.
 
Sneakypants said:
I suppose "stuff happens" isn't good enough.

I don't really consider that reason good enough pertaining to the innocent American lives lost on 9/11, or the beheadings of reporters, or soldiers dragged through the streets, hanged and burned either.

So forgive me when I say I don't really give a fuck.

Amen my niggs.
 
Trippyhippy said:
There is not and never has been any connection between what is happening in Iraq and the events of 9/11.

But yeah, let our military roam the world killing innocent civilians. Why should you care. It doesn't affect you. Right?

Then people wonder why other nations hate America.


Can you point out where I mentioned a connection between 9/11 and Iraq?

I didn't say that or imply it. Not at all.
 
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Sneakypants said:
I suppose "stuff happens" isn't good enough.

I don't really consider that reason good enough pertaining to the innocent American lives lost on 9/11, or the beheadings of reporters, or soldiers dragged through the streets, hanged and burned either.

So forgive me when I say I don't really give a fuck.

Well, if you're not implying there's a connection to them there (even though you mention "or, or" later on in the same sentance), then why wouldn't you care?

Or are you saying American lives are more worth then someone in Iraq?

Since you're implying you don't care about what happends to innocent iraqee civilians pertaining what happened to the innocent american who lost their l ives in 9/11, you must be saying that innocent american lives are of greater value then iraqee lives.
 
CmdrFly said:
I can see why they'd flip out over their buddy getting bombed, but raging on the civs in the area definitely wasn't a good idea. Course, we're relying on evidence from the media spiders which I've never been able to place full trust in.

If the brass believe what the media is showing them though, I'd consider it legit. These guys were either desperate to shoot something or mentally hammered from battle and just made the worst decision at the wrong time.
IDK about the whole thing. I trust the media about as much as I trust the average politician, which is to say you can probaly hang the whole lot of em and the world will be a better place. However shooting women and children? Such actions arent excusable regardless.

To the people who think this is America targeting civilians... LOL... Look up what happens when we really decide to play dirty. Look up events such as Dresden, Tokyo fire bombing, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, cities we gutted to the ground. There are plenty. That is the good ole days when we said fuck it teach the fuckers a lesson about how you actualy wage warfare not this pussyfooting ocupation BS.

That however was war this is nation building. Dont think we should be in this bussiness, their nation their problem. They want democracey let them fight for it. Iraq will fail for the exact same reasons welfare fails. You cant give someone something for nothing and actualy expect them to make something of it. They need to work for it. Why should we spend our time, money, and lives to help a bunch of primitive savages attempt at something they cant comprehend?
 
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Uzor said:
Well, if you're not implying there's a connection to them there (even though you mention "or, or" later on in the same sentance), then why wouldn't you care?

Or are you saying American lives are more worth then someone in Iraq?

Since you're implying you don't care about what happends to innocent iraqee civilians pertaining what happened to the innocent american who lost their l ives in 9/11, you must be saying that innocent american lives are of greater value then iraqee lives.

Sneakypants said:
Can you point out where I mentioned a connection between 9/11 and Iraq?

I didn't say that or imply it. Not at all.


Just saving you the trouble from reposting that again since I'm here with time to kill, Sneakers.
 
Direwolf said:
That however was war this is nation building. Dont think we should be in this bussiness, their nation their problem. They want democracey let them fight for it. Iraq will fail for the exact same reasons welfare fails. You cant give someone something for nothing and actualy expect them to make something of it. They need to work for it. Why should we spend our time, money, and lives to help a bunch of primitive savages attempt at something they cant comprehend?


your the ones that came here and you call us primitive savages ?
 
Dayner said:
your the ones that came here and you call us primitive savages ?

Yes, because if we wouldn't killing you, you'd just be killing yourselves, for the most part. Notice, in America we do not run around with guns having street wars and blowing shit up like it's 1999 (anybody get that, lolololskee). We also don't cut peoples heads off with butterknives or ram planes into buildings. You people, again, for the most part not all of you, are so fucked up it's even considerable as to whether you should even be called humans or not.

Anyway, if you're a Saudi don't be bringing that year old bullshit here. You people kill your own off enough daily but when we decide to help you out it's suddenly "new".

About us going there... Maybe when your planet, because basically it is the way majority lives, learns how to conduct itself and not scare the shit out of the rest of the world, people will leave you alone. Until then, yesh.

I feel sorry for the normal, humane people living there, which isn't a majority by any means. The Middle East kind of reminds me of the Reaver zones in Serenity :D
 
Strid said:
Yes, because if we wouldn't killing you, you'd just be killing yourselves, for the most part. Notice, in America we do not run around with guns having street wars and blowing shit up like it's 1999 (anybody get that, lolololskee). We also don't cut peoples heads off with butterknives or ram planes into buildings. You people, again, for the most part not all of you, are so fucked up it's even considerable as to whether you should even be called humans or not.

Anyway, if you're a Saudi don't be bringing that year old bullshit here. You people kill your own off enough daily but when we decide to help you out it's suddenly "new".

About us going there... Maybe when your planet, because basically it is the way majority lives, learns how to conduct itself and not scare the shit out of the rest of the world, people will leave you alone. Until then, yesh.

I feel sorry for the normal, humane people living there, which isn't a majority by any means. The Middle East kind of reminds me of the Reaver zones in Serenity :D

your the ones that start all this shit , if you havent give absolute support to the ones who steal our land , this shit wont have happned

so you calls us inhumans, like America history isnt perfect too
 
Strid said:
Yes, because if we wouldn't killing you, you'd just be killing yourselves, for the most part. Notice, in America we do not run around with guns having street wars and blowing shit up like it's 1999 (anybody get that, lolololskee). We also don't cut peoples heads off with butterknives or ram planes into buildings. You people, again, for the most part not all of you, are so fucked up it's even considerable as to whether you should even be called humans or not.
I find that rather ironic, since America is the nation with the highest ammount of murder per year. I don't know any other nation where basically everyone have a gun on them, where they can buy a gun even at the bank, and pick up bullets at the local super market. I also don't know any other nation where 6-year old kids take their uncle's gun and shoot people to death in their school. And you're saying America don't run around with guns and kill eachother?

Let's compare. in New York alone, 1999 676 people were murdered. In 2001, 649 people were murdered (not counting september 11th), and in 2005, 530 people were murdered. This is in New York alone.

In Sweden, there's about 70 murders per year.

Now, let's compare it to saudi arabia, shall we? This is the number of crimes per 100,000 citizen.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] India: 3,72
Indonesia: 1,05
Japan: 0,50
Pakistan: 0,05
Russia: 19,80
Saudi-arabia: 0,51
Singapore: 0,92
USA: 4,55

As you can see, USA actually have a higher rate of crime by year then both Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Saudi-arabia[/FONT]. Saudi-arabia actually have a higher number then Sweden too, which is at about 1,09, and Norway at about 1,09.

USA also have death penalty, which in my oppinion, leads to more murders. If anything, it proves that USA is a country based on revenge, which is further proven by them going in to Iraq to kill people because of their terror attack at 9/11.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
Anyway, if you're a Saudi don't be bringing that year old bullshit here. You people kill your own off enough daily but when we decide to help you out it's suddenly "new".
America have the highest ammount of murder in the world. America kill their own enough daily.

I feel sorry for the normal, humane people living there, which isn't a majority by any means. The Middle East kind of reminds me of the Reaver zones in Serenity :D
Oh, are you wrong. The majority isn't extremist muslims that go in to jihad for every little thing. The media, however, make it seem like that since the only things they think is worth mentioning is when muslims decide to burn a doll of George Bush etc. The majority, however, don't like those extremist muslims either. The majority is not like that, the minority is. So you're WAY off basis there.

Also, on this site:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm#longterm
the number of homizides per 100,000 citizen is around 5, so the numbers about crime earlier might have been the number of murders per year since it was a page comparing countries with death penalty to those without a death penalty. So I'd guess it's the number of crimes that could warrant a death penalty (read: murder)
 
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Dayner said:
your the ones that start all this shit , if you havent give absolute support to the ones who steal our land , this shit wont have happned

Apparently some biblical figures started it back in the day... we're just trying to finish it.
 
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Derka derka
Dayner said:
your the ones that start all this shit , if you havent give absolute support to the ones who steal our land , this shit wont have happned

so you calls us inhumans, like America history isnt perfect too

Larry Miller said:
LARRY MILLER EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ON THE MID-EAST CONFLICT:

A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need. Don't thank me. I'm a giver.

Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that:

There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention.

Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."

Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun.

No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course-that's where the real fun is-but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel-or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it-for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast.

Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab state into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some.

After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint. If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan. (Hey, wait a minute, that's actually not such a bad id...uh, that is, what a horrible thought, yeah, horrible.)
 
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