Haste VS ATK VS ACC Your view ?

[Dayner]

i was thinking of new setup for drk

DRK/SAM with scythe

head : Homam Zuchetto / Walahra Turban 3%/5%
hand : Homam Manopolas / Dusk Gloves 3%
legs : Homam Cosciales 3%
feet : Homam Gambieras 3%
Waist : Speed Belt / Swift Belt 6%/4%

Last Resort recast merit 5/5 shortened by 10 seconds for every merit
Desperate Blows merit 3/3 delay cut 5% for every merit
hasso 5% delay cut

stats

Haste : 16% ~ 20 %
delay cut : 20% with Desperate Blows *every 4 min or so but last for 30 sec ..*

Acc : 20 / 17
ATK : -3

*notes*
i didnt include other Items slot stats

so what you guys think ? you think its going to work out ?

 

[Tagrineth]

Desperate Blows isn't worth the points. I'd go Diabolic Eye / Muted Soul if I was a DRK.

Other than that.. yeah, haste is good.

 

[Legomyeggo]

what food?

Edit: Food would be dependant on the rest of the equipment. I don't think any can judge it properly unless you add... uh, everything else.

 

[Astyanax]

Wouldn't the Hasso Delay cut be for SAM Main, only? =P

 

[Tagrineth]

Wouldn't the Hasso Delay cut be for SAM Main, only? =P

Why would it?

 

[Skaw]

Wouldn't the Hasso Delay cut be for SAM Main, only? =P

No. But you get sub levels scaled effect only.

 

[Rappa]

Desperate Blows sucks. You honestly won't even get one extra hit in with it fully merited, it's been debated before. Haste is good, but piling on haste while giving up str and atk is counterintuitive for a drk. You're there to do big spike dmg hits, not to attack really fast. Leave that to other jobs or just get a kraken club and be a suicide drk, don't try to be something you aren't.

 

[Dayner]

ty guys for feedback but i want to try something new
the ppl who know me know that iam str and atk whore

 

[Dayner]

what food?

Edit: Food would be dependant on the rest of the equipment. I don't think any can judge it properly unless you add... uh, everything else.

well i use meat dish food *bison and red curry*


bomb core
body huaby
neck chiv chain
back Amemet Mantle +1
ring raja and flame/woodsman
earrying Abyssal/ Brutal

 

[etchdog2000]

I am not sure if this is for a Merit pt setup, or a cannon setup. I know that for a 1minute fight a DRK with scythe needs about 15% haste to get an extra hit in, 30% haste to get 2.

That is why I stick to attk/acc setup on DRK. Seems a DRK gives up way too much to get a haste setup. Especially when a DRK can get over 500 base attk pretty easy before food or abilities.

However if you have all that equipment, I would be interested in seeing the parsed results of a full attk build vs haste build.

 

[Dayner]

yes i hope that too
stll one thing iam not sure of that , why we drk need haste gear
i mean if it for tp then Meditate and 2 hit of scythe well get you to 100%

guess its back to the drawing borad for me XD

 

[Lavi]

I am not sure if this is for a Merit pt setup, or a cannon setup. I know that for a 1minute fight a DRK with scythe needs about 15% haste to get an extra hit in, 30% haste to get 2.

That is why I stick to attk/acc setup on DRK. Seems a DRK gives up way too much to get a haste setup. Especially when a DRK can get over 500 base attk pretty easy before food or abilities.

However if you have all that equipment, I would be interested in seeing the parsed results of a full attk build vs haste build.

Having less than 15% haste doesn't make it worthless. While you are probably correct in your numbers, the idea isn't to get an extra swing in, it's to reduce delay and increase your own numbers relative to your own party. The same concept works for all jobs. You don't need the full 15% to get an extra swing either, you just need enough so that when two people engage, your last swing gets in before a mob dies whereas without the +haste, the other player's swing would make the finishing blow. If you think about it, when you are parsing, the only thing you are trying to do is increase damage relative to your own party. A good way to do this is to get a single swing more in before another party member does. Imagine a party full of DRKs and they all have the same race, weapon, gear, and subjob, give one 1% haste and it's very likely if they all engage preciesly the exact moment, the person with the 1% haste will probably get the final blow just because their last hit will land prior to all the other DRK's.

Wouldn't the Hasso Delay cut be for SAM Main, only? =P

Yah, I have also heard job specific merits only apply to the job when mained. Seems if this was true, all players would benefit greatly from meriting subjobs if they sub's merits are worthwhile for damage.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Yah, I have also heard job specific merits only apply to the job when mained. Seems if this was true, all players would benefit greatly from meriting subjobs if they sub's merits are worthwhile for damage.

I'm really not sure how to respond to that... Maybe you have it confused with Ikishoten? Hasso is a low-level SAM JA. >_>

 

[Lavi]

I'm really not sure how to respond to that... Maybe you have it confused with Ikishoten? Hasso is a low-level SAM JA. >_>

When I asked my linkshell a long time ago about meriting, I asked if I merited job specific merits would it come into effect if the job was subbed and I was told no. I have no way to prove or disprove it as I have no job specific merits with which to test it so I took it as fact. So I am kinda curious who is right? Would meriting something to reduce timer (easiest merit to test vs stat increase like DA/TA) effect it when subbed? Such as meriting Divine Seal on WHM would reduce the time even when I am BLM/WHM?

 

[Klank]

When I asked my linkshell a long time ago about meriting, I asked if I merited job specific merits would it come into effect if the job was subbed and I was told no. I have no way to prove or disprove it as I have no job specific merits with which to test it so I took it as fact. So I am kinda curious who is right? Would meriting something to reduce timer (easiest merit to test vs stat increase like DA/TA) effect it when subbed? Such as meriting Divine Seal on WHM would reduce the time even when I am BLM/WHM?

I believe Dayner means Hasso cuts delay from 2h weapons by 5%, not meriting it to lower recast. Also, no, meritted abilities do not take effect on SJ. If it did, my Zerk wouldn't be 5 mins on NIN.

 

[Lavi]

Wow, I totally misunderstood that. He had Hasso listed with the merited traits so I mistook it for another merited trait.

 

[etchdog2000]

Having less than 15% haste doesn't make it worthless. While you are probably correct in your numbers, the idea isn't to get an extra swing in, it's to reduce delay and increase your own numbers relative to your own party. The same concept works for all jobs. You don't need the full 15% to get an extra swing either, you just need enough so that when two people engage, your last swing gets in before a mob dies whereas without the +haste, the other player's swing would make the finishing blow. If you think about it, when you are parsing, the only thing you are trying to do is increase damage relative to your own party. A good way to do this is to get a single swing more in before another party member does. Imagine a party full of DRKs and they all have the same race, weapon, gear, and subjob, give one 1% haste and it's very likely if they all engage preciesly the exact moment, the person with the 1% haste will probably get the final blow just because their last hit will land prior to all the other DRK's.



Yah, I have also heard job specific merits only apply to the job when mained. Seems if this was true, all players would benefit greatly from meriting subjobs if they sub's merits are worthwhile for damage.

Actually its all about getting an extra hit.

15% haste on a 1 minute fight 7 attk rounds
15% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
8% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
8% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds


So if you fight less then 1 minute all the slots you used up on your haste setup were in a since wasted. It all depends on how quickly you are killing the mobs.

Now why dual wielders are much better off(esp with DW DM earring) is a WAR for example only needs 7-8% haste(approx, i dont know the exact number) to get another attack round in on a 1 minute fight, so if you get 16% haste a WAR gets an additional 2 attack rounds. So a WAR would look like this.

16% haste on a 1 minute fight 8 attk rounds
16% haste on a 58 second fight 7 attk rounds
8% haste on a 1 minute fight 7 attk rounds
8% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds

My numbers may not be exact, but you get the point.
Its actually very elementary if you break it down like this.

 

[etchdog2000]

I went a head and added one for 0% haste to even further demonstrate how haste doesnt help at all until you reach a certain amount.

 

[Lavi]

Actually its all about getting an extra hit.

15% haste on a 1 minute fight 7 attk rounds
15% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
8% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
8% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds


So if you fight less then 1 minute all the slots you used up on your haste setup were in a since wasted. It all depends on how quickly you are killing the mobs.

Now why dual wielders are much better off(esp with DW DM earring) is a WAR for example only needs 7-8% haste(approx, i dont know the exact number) to get another attack round in on a 1 minute fight, so if you get 16% haste a WAR gets an additional 2 attack rounds. So a WAR would look like this.

16% haste on a 1 minute fight 8 attk rounds
16% haste on a 58 second fight 7 attk rounds
8% haste on a 1 minute fight 7 attk rounds
8% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 1 minute fight 6 attk rounds
0% haste on a 58 second fight 6 attk rounds

My numbers may not be exact, but you get the point.
Its actually very elementary if you break it down like this.

You miss the point. You're comparing yourself to yourself and that's not how most people play, they play and parse by comparing themselves to others.

2 DRKs in a party and are fighting a mob with 500 HP. Each swing of the scythe does ~100 damage so it basically always takes 5 swings to kill the mobs.

Scenario 1: No haste:
DRK 1: 2 swings - 200 damage
DRK 2: 2 swings - 200 damage
Last hit is random and each has an equal change of kill blow (100 damage) when they both engage at same time.

Scenario 2: DRK 1, no haste; DRK 2, 1% haste
DRK 1: 2 swings - 200 damage
DRK 2: 3 swings - 300 damage
DRK 2 always gets the last hit because he now has a lower delay. He parsed higher and is greater than DRK 1. This is parsing. All you need to do to pad the parse (as far as haste is concerned) is make it so your last hit lands prior to someone who would normally make a hit at or before yours. Well there is more to it like will equipping the haste gear at the loss of another gear slot be detrimental to your performance (Ohat vs. Wahalara, swift vs life belt), the idea still remains the same. That's what parsing is, improving your performance versus other players as a reference to improving your own damage.

 

[etchdog2000]

You miss the point. You're comparing yourself to yourself and that's not how most people play, they play and parse by comparing themselves to others.

2 DRKs in a party and are fighting a mob with 500 HP. Each swing of the scythe does ~100 damage so it basically always takes 5 swings to kill the mobs.

Scenario 1: No haste:
DRK 1: 2 swings - 200 damage
DRK 2: 2 swings - 200 damage
Last hit is random and each has an equal change of kill blow (100 damage) when they both engage at same time.

Scenario 2: DRK 1, no haste; DRK 2, 1% haste
DRK 1: 2 swings - 200 damage
DRK 2: 3 swings - 300 damage
DRK 2 always gets the last hit because he now has a lower delay. He parsed higher and is greater than DRK 1. This is parsing. All you need to do to pad the parse (as far as haste is concerned) is make it so your last hit lands prior to someone who would normally make a hit at or before yours. Well there is more to it like will equipping the haste gear at the loss of another gear slot be detrimental to your performance (Ohat vs. Wahalara, swift vs life belt), the idea still remains the same. That's what parsing is, improving your performance versus other players as a reference to improving your own damage.

el oh el.

You do realize 1 percent haste will add another attk round like once every 5 some odd minutes right? And that is if you are meleeing somthing non-stop.

It doesnt matter who is in your party, or who you are exping with, all that matters is how long a fight is.

if you are in a sucky party and it takes 2 minutes to kill somthing, yes with 8% haste you will get another hit and with 16% you will get 2.