Help with SATA

Aerandir

Aerandir

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Ok, I was in a JP party last night (this morning), and they got really pissed at me because I was messing up sata.

I know the basic of sata...

Theif> Tank > Mob < 2nd Tank

In a normal situation I would voke the mob, the theif would lay Sata on him, and then mob will attack the tank, right? right.

What do you do when your the 1st voke, and your starting off a skillchain? I was using Power Slash, and he was following with Sata Viper Bite.

Do you use your WS, and then immediately voke so that the mob is facing you? That makes since to me, but they got all pissed when I did it.

Am I wrong?
 
They were probably expecting you to pull hate with Power Slash, without voke, so the THF could SATAWS onto the main tank and a crapload of hate would be on him.

With you voking to take hate, it kind of screws up the hate a bit, but I don't really think it's something for them to get overly pissed at you for, since an SATAWS will plant a good amount of hate on the tank, even if you did voke.
 
In my eyes you did nothing wrong. The voke you used is easily offset by the SATA WS onto the tank. You could voke and WS and the thf SATA WS onto the tank and the tank should not have any issues with hate the rest of the fight. (if they are any sort of good) As I have played both THF and DRK in a SATA situation I would say this is the norm and not to worry about them getting pissed.
 
IMO i think as the first provoker and most likely starter of the sc...should.. provoke > weaponskill then satavb or whatever.

it keeps things in line..so the thief can be in the proper position behind the tank... and the mob wont keep moving..
 
Yeah, that must be where I went wrong. Should have voked before doing starting the chain. It would have been easier to do also.

You'd think they would be able to use the translater enough to convey that to me, rather than using emotes.

thx again guys.
 
I have been in these "sensitive" parties before when I was NIN tanking.
Everyone had their own way...I said less talking, more killing.
I said SATA to DRG, I'll hold hate...And did. That shut them up.

Actually, it bruised some egos and a couple dropped because they HAD to do things their way, which was proving to to be very effective or efficient.

I found that, doing it their way, and having to allow the DRG's WS to turn the MOB, it didn't work 100% of the time. That's ok, if the THF is mobile enough to adjust and doesn't mind tricking to the DRG. Basically, what that meant was that I couldn't provoke every 30 seconds...

I said, do you want me to tank the MOB or try to finesse it? I told them if I voked every 30, debuffed, spammed WS where necessary, and used other ninjitsu that all DDs could expand their damage output, particularly nukers. I rarely got hit with shadows, so that wasn't an issue.

My way worked. Tank it like a badass, and let everyone beat the hell out of it. Too much finesse to get a very specific outcome proved to be too risky, inconsistent, and when a mage got hit or SATA was missed, ten I'd have to recover and try to gain hate to tank at that point...After they told me not to. :roll:

Tank should tank...And if they tank well, the THF can plant a big SATA on anyone and it shouldn't matter much. But these guys got all pissy because I voked. ><
I'm tanking, dumbshits!!
...Never met people that didn't want the tank to voke more than once right after SATA. Plus the DRG could never get hate back for the SC till after the MOB beat on some mages...

All in all, it's just too much effort and complaining for and end result that is inferior to a good setup with good tanking.
 
Sneakypants said:
I have been in these "sensitive" parties before when I was NIN tanking.
Everyone had their own way...I said less talking, more killing.
I said SATA to DRG, I'll hold hate...And did. That shut them up.

Actually, it bruised some egos and a couple dropped because they HAD to do things their way, which was proving to to be very effective or efficient.

I found that, doing it their way, and having to allow the DRG's WS to turn the MOB, it didn't work 100% of the time. That's ok, if the THF is mobile enough to adjust and doesn't mind tricking to the DRG. Basically, what that meant was that I couldn't provoke every 30 seconds...

I said, do you want me to tank the MOB or try to finesse it? I told them if I voked every 30, debuffed, spammed WS where necessary, and used other ninjitsu that all DDs could expand their damage output, particularly nukers. I rarely got hit with shadows, so that wasn't an issue.

My way worked. Tank it like a badass, and let everyone beat the hell out of it. Too much finesse to get a very specific outcome proved to be too risky, inconsistent, and when a mage got hit or SATA was missed, ten I'd have to recover and try to gain hate to tank at that point...After they told me not to. :roll:

Tank should tank...And if they tank well, the THF can plant a big SATA on anyone and it shouldn't matter much. But these guys got all pissy because I voked. ><
I'm tanking, dumbshits!!
...Never met people that didn't want the tank to voke more than once right after SATA. Plus the DRG could never get hate back for the SC till after the MOB beat on some mages...

All in all, it's just too much effort and complaining for and end result that is inferior to a good setup with good tanking.
Click to expand...

AMEN! :twisted:
 
Krisy said:
hmmm, seems right to me...they musta been noobs?
Click to expand...

Supposedly not. It was one of those times that rank indicated nothing.
The quiet rank 2 mage was my favorite of the bunch.
 
Sneakypants said:
I have been in these "sensitive" parties before when I was NIN tanking.
Everyone had their own way...I said less talking, more killing.
I said SATA to DRG, I'll hold hate...And did. That shut them up.

Actually, it bruised some egos and a couple dropped because they HAD to do things their way, which was proving to to be very effective or efficient.

I found that, doing it their way, and having to allow the DRG's WS to turn the MOB, it didn't work 100% of the time. That's ok, if the THF is mobile enough to adjust and doesn't mind tricking to the DRG. Basically, what that meant was that I couldn't provoke every 30 seconds...

I said, do you want me to tank the MOB or try to finesse it? I told them if I voked every 30, debuffed, spammed WS where necessary, and used other ninjitsu that all DDs could expand their damage output, particularly nukers. I rarely got hit with shadows, so that wasn't an issue.

My way worked. Tank it like a badass, and let everyone beat the hell out of it. Too much finesse to get a very specific outcome proved to be too risky, inconsistent, and when a mage got hit or SATA was missed, ten I'd have to recover and try to gain hate to tank at that point...After they told me not to. :roll:

Tank should tank...And if they tank well, the THF can plant a big SATA on anyone and it shouldn't matter much. But these guys got all pissy because I voked. ><
I'm tanking, dumbshits!!
...Never met people that didn't want the tank to voke more than once right after SATA. Plus the DRG could never get hate back for the SC till after the MOB beat on some mages...

All in all, it's just too much effort and complaining for and end result that is inferior to a good setup with good tanking.
Click to expand...

so the thf sata to drg and did 'jump' to reset hate? excuse my ignorance but im just trying to figure out whats going on here...

also i dont think a drk (the OP) can get sata'd on and not expect to be the tank for the majority of the fight? especially with a nin tank.. but this is just my opinion...
 
eiteen said:
Sneakypants said:
I have been in these "sensitive" parties before when I was NIN tanking.
Everyone had their own way...I said less talking, more killing.
I said SATA to DRG, I'll hold hate...And did. That shut them up.

Actually, it bruised some egos and a couple dropped because they HAD to do things their way, which was proving to to be very effective or efficient.

I found that, doing it their way, and having to allow the DRG's WS to turn the MOB, it didn't work 100% of the time. That's ok, if the THF is mobile enough to adjust and doesn't mind tricking to the DRG. Basically, what that meant was that I couldn't provoke every 30 seconds...

I said, do you want me to tank the MOB or try to finesse it? I told them if I voked every 30, debuffed, spammed WS where necessary, and used other ninjitsu that all DDs could expand their damage output, particularly nukers. I rarely got hit with shadows, so that wasn't an issue.

My way worked. Tank it like a badass, and let everyone beat the hell out of it. Too much finesse to get a very specific outcome proved to be too risky, inconsistent, and when a mage got hit or SATA was missed, ten I'd have to recover and try to gain hate to tank at that point...After they told me not to. :roll:

Tank should tank...And if they tank well, the THF can plant a big SATA on anyone and it shouldn't matter much. But these guys got all pissy because I voked. ><
I'm tanking, dumbshits!!
...Never met people that didn't want the tank to voke more than once right after SATA. Plus the DRG could never get hate back for the SC till after the MOB beat on some mages...

All in all, it's just too much effort and complaining for and end result that is inferior to a good setup with good tanking.
Click to expand...

so the thf sata to drg and did 'jump' to reset hate? excuse my ignorance but im just trying to figure out whats going on here...

also i dont think a drk (the OP) can get sata'd on and not expect to be the tank for the majority of the fight? especially with a nin tank.. but this is just my opinion...
Click to expand...

No. THF would SATA to me (NIN) after DRG took initial voke. Then they wanted me to voke only once after the SATA landed for the duration of the fight. We tried many times, and it sucked...Repeatedly. They didn't like that I spoke up. But I finally just started doing things my way, and got responses like, "WHOA! How the hell did you hold hate through my uber SATA+VB?!?!", and, "This party rocks, because I put it together."

:roll: :roll:

Losers.


I recommended that the DRG get SATAed onto for the SC. Most he got hit then was once or twice, versus ending up consistently in double-digit red health doing it their way.

They said I couldn't tank right...So I did it my way, tanked like a bastard, and they couldn't take hate when they tried. I won't sit idle ad silent as long next time.
 
First of all, thank you for subbing warrior in a thief party. Until level 70, most meleers cannot hope to rip a mob off even a slacking tank unless they both provoke and use a weaponskill to turn it.

I prefer that meleers provoke first, weaponskill second.
Why?
Because usually when they weaponskill first they look to see if the mob is turning or not. Then when they see they didn't do it, they provoke.

Meanwhile you have to understand that my timers and abilities are being evoked like I'm a one-man manaburn party. I can't have you seeing if it worked. I'll do that. I'd rather you just try your best, and at the end of your best effort, blow the weaponskill.

Then if the mob turns, I'll catch him with a SATAWS. If it's still not enough I'll have to use TAWS. If you provoke second, I have no time to react and my reacting is the saving or the wasting of 150-300 damage in the fight with a spared sneak attack.

To review, the superior tactic is to first provoke, then use weaponskill.
 
Also to EMPHASIZE:

If your thief is weaponskilling onto anyone but the tank or a dragoon, I'm sending you a Thief Noob certificate. If anyone but the tank is provoking first, I'm sending you TWO. And if they're weaponskilling onto a dragoon you were better off inviting any other meleer than a thief. Seriously, the days of trick partners are dead. Trick the tank or play warrior. I've killed dark knights who said they could take it. I've made tanks eat their hats who said they can hold it. A thief worth their salt will be the death of your team if they don't trick the tank.
 
Peregrine said:
Also to EMPHASIZE:

If your thief is weaponskilling onto anyone but the tank or a dragoon, I'm sending you a Thief Noob certificate. And if they're weaponskilling onto a dragoon you were better off inviting any other meleer than a thief. Seriously, the days of trick partners are dead. Trick the tank or play warrior. I've killed dark knights who said they could take it. I've made tanks eat their hats who said they can hold it. A thief worth their salt will be the death of your team if they don't trick the tank.
Click to expand...

They weren't WS onto me, they where needing me to turn the mob so they could WS Sata onto the tank. They just didn't like the order in which I did it.

Now, I know, and knowing is half the battle. It is very frustrating being in a JP party, and having no idea wtf they are asking you to do, because the have not mastered the complexity of the translater.

<Provoke> <Skill Chain>
 
Voke then WS is a much better tactic, I agree. But you didn't know and came here to ask, which was smart of you.

On a note about thf in general and SATAWS,

Fast, intelligent thiefs make parties very steady and relaible

Slow-weak-stubbern thfs are the bane of the party
 
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