heres an idea you everyone

Probably California, they have always had high prices. It makes me glad I dont have a car. I'll just take the bus or walk.
 
I'm in California--the very cheapest you can find around the Bay Area is maybe $2.70, and some places are at $2.95, but no one seems to have the balls to go over $2.99.:lol:
 
but lets get back to the subject at hand, lol *cough* the economy is still a problem to you people and I think you should take the AH into your own hands and create an LS just for selling/trading things. I think it'd be an awesome idea... an 'Exclusive' in-game AH LS.... The QTC (Quetzalcoatl Trading Company) :wink: Because I know in the mmo's i play they have a 'trade' channel in their chat system... so why not make one of your own?
 
Blackmagik said:
you forgot about dynamis, it takes a bunch of gil out of the system, evertime some1 buys a hourglass, there goes 1mil.
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No, I didn't mention Dynamis, because there are rewards to earn. And 1 mil divided by upto 75(?) people isn't a lot. Everyone can make that back in less than 30 minutes of Gilfinder farming Giants in Xarcabard.

I'm talking about methods that destroy gil, in order to achieve something you can just regularly do. Like yes, you can farm Seals for BCNMs, but if you had the option of buying them, I know people would jump on it, since that means more BCNMs going on, without restriction to a Seal count.
 
Sethala said:
I think the main problem is that there's too much gil in player hands.
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Aerdrie said:
alot more gil comes into our economey than leaves it
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Veteran said:
Way more gil is coming into the economy than gil leaving the economy.
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etc.

Whenever someone complains about high prices, seems most people point to "too much gil in circulation" as the reason for it. I don't claim to know anything about economics, but I don't see where all this "new gil" people complain about is coming from. There are relatively few ways that the game creates new gil: quests/missions, drops, and NPC sales. These don't usually give you a lot of money, either. I don't know how many people make their money off NPC sales, but it seems most people prefer to farm/craft items which they then sell to other players; if you sell at the AH or bazaar in Jeuno, there's a tax that takes a chunk of gil out of circulation. Every time you buy stuff from NPCs--crafting materials, teleports, airship/chocobo ride, fees, what have you, money goes out of the system. New items are dropped fairly easily by mobs, but then they are exchanged for the money that's already in the system. Gil sellers don't NPC all those archer rings, or whatever. So where is the gil coming from? Am I missing something?

ISTR Veresko had some theory about there being too little gil in circulation, but I don't think he ever elaborated.
 
There is no one thing that affects the current prices; it is a mix of a lot of different things. They each have a positive effect and a negative effect. Changing any of them can have drastic unforeseen effects on the system for good or for bad.

Gil Buying/Selling
AH Price Jacking and Undercutting
Farming/Questing Gil
Player attitudes to certain items
Item Drop Rates
Price Fixing/Market Control

All of theses things affect current prices.
 
Zhaoyun said:
They need new servers where everyone starts out at level 1 again....

To be honest this sound like a great idea but once again I doubt anything will ever happen a fresh start would be very benifitical to everyone
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anesly said:
Sethala said:
I think the main problem is that there's too much gil in player hands.
Click to expand...
Aerdrie said:
alot more gil comes into our economey than leaves it
Click to expand...
Veteran said:
Way more gil is coming into the economy than gil leaving the economy.
Click to expand...

etc.

Whenever someone complains about high prices, seems most people point to "too much gil in circulation" as the reason for it. I don't claim to know anything about economics, but I don't see where all this "new gil" people complain about is coming from. There are relatively few ways that the game creates new gil: quests/missions, drops, and NPC sales. These don't usually give you a lot of money, either. I don't know how many people make their money off NPC sales, but it seems most people prefer to farm/craft items which they then sell to other players; if you sell at the AH or bazaar in Jeuno, there's a tax that takes a chunk of gil out of circulation. Every time you buy stuff from NPCs--crafting materials, teleports, airship/chocobo ride, fees, what have you, money goes out of the system. New items are dropped fairly easily by mobs, but then they are exchanged for the money that's already in the system. Gil sellers don't NPC all those archer rings, or whatever. So where is the gil coming from? Am I missing something?

ISTR Veresko had some theory about there being too little gil in circulation, but I don't think he ever elaborated.
Click to expand...

Gil enters circulation via mob drops, quests, missions, NPC sales, and a few other things like fishing up gil or the 10 gil everyone starts with. Gil leaves circulation via airship fee, chocobo fee, NPC purchases, Dynamis runs, and other things like weddings or people quitting with gil still in their coffers. I can assure you that far more gil is entering rather than leaving or the prices wouldn't be able to jump like this. It's the same reason that your grandparents talk about buying a loaf of bread for a dime and a gallon of milk for a nickel.
 
Veteran said:
I can assure you that far more gil is entering rather than leaving or the prices wouldn't be able to jump like this.
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Really?

REALLY really?

I'd really be suprised if this is true, since the major ways money comes in are:

Mob drops (10-100gil for normal mobs, maybe 3k or so for a high-level NM per person)
Quests/Missions (100k at most, and that's for getting Rank 10)
Selling to NPCs (Which hardly ever happens anymore)

Money is taken out through:

Dynamis runs (1 million a run, I'd say at least 8 runs are done a week on this server - correct me if I'm wrong)
Chocobos (Nowadays it's hard to get a bird for less than 1k, sometimes 2k at the crags)
AH fees (Normally small, but an item like Scorpion Harness takes 100k+ out of the economy as it's listed)
NPC sales (Much more popular nowadays, especially in the consumable crafts. A stack of Wasabi and Vinegar to make Sushi eliminates 25-26k from the economy every time, since you can only get it through NPC vendors.)

I think the real cause for prices going is, simply, the player base is getting better at the game. Looking at the latest Census (and disregarding all characters below 10, which are more mules than anything else) about 35% of the player base across all servers has a job 50 or higher. Over 12% are 71+. Plain and simple, compared to a year ago, players can do more and earn more valuable things as opposed to a year ago. I remember at this time last year thinking 25k was a king's ransom. Now I carry around gear in the tens of millions and don't think twice about paying 2,3, 500k for something because I know I can make it back.

Those who complain about the economy, I think, are the ones who haven't figured out how to use it yet.
 
Actually Cubswoo you overlook one thing. I have long suspected that a large chunk(maybe majority) of the gil via gil-sellers is gardening related. As any gardener can tell you, with some crystals, you will wind up with "failures" that NPC more than any other item than the game. How many are gardening... who knows? How could anyone know? Even if you were a GM and gave a shit, how could you tell which mules were belonging to honest players and which to gilsellers? All the mules would send money out continously so you can't really track it.
 
The only real gardening 'failure' I can think of is Platinum Leaves (about 40k/stack to an NPC) and that's from Saplings. Assuming 10 pots, none of which yield Ice Ore or Wind Clusters and ~1 stack of Plat Leaves each, that's 400k every 20 days or so per character.
 
Well if every character is $1/month... that's 600k/1$... and those are failure. If one is financially worth the reward/cost ratio there could be 4 hundred for all we know. How much gil is that being pumped into our economy?
 
Right, and the successes/non-NPCable fails (which, from my gardening, are 6-7/10 if you do it right) are all sold to other players, which takes out more gil through the AH fees.

Might want to re-crimp the tinfoil hat, Fire.
 
If they are targetting success, which they could very possibly not be. If you flooded the market with ores all you're going to get is a whole bunch of worthless ores. What if instead they gardened simply for the Platinum Leaves? They might not even require an entire 20 days if they don't want the ore.
If they did get the potential, full Leaves, and they did it with 400 mules... let's say you had 4 people managing it, so they could log on at once you had 4 accounts with 100 characters each. That's ((12+99) * 4) = 444 dollars a month... to create 240 million gil. If you went directly for ores on an operation on that scale, all you'd do is collapse the market... because the players don't need that many ores and they'd become worthless. But if you went straight to NPC them you've created a steady unchanging supply of gil.
 
As an aside, think of things as simple as renting a chocobo. This is just a guesstimate (and a conservative one) but I'd say in a given day, our server has 10,000 seperate chocobo rentals. I'd wager it's double that on more populated days. And let's put the average chocobo rental fee at... I dunno, 500 gil.

Just from that, 5 MILLION gil is being taken out of the economy every day because people need to get from point A to point B. This doesn't take into account airships (4 ships, 4 flights/hour, 2 routes, 200 a ride minus the people that do Discerning Eye on the return to Jeuno = more gil out,) outpost warpers, ferry riders, even small stuff like the Moblin NPC who gets you out of Newton.

The 'new gil' argument, imo, is one that doesn't hold water when you step back and look at the big picture.
 
Firestreak said:
If they are targetting success, which they could very possibly not be. If you flooded the market with ores all you're going to get is a whole bunch of worthless ores. What if instead they gardened simply for the Platinum Leaves? They might not even require an entire 20 days if they don't want the ore.
If they did get the potential, full Leaves, and they did it with 400 mules... let's say you had 4 people managing it, so they could log on at once you had 4 accounts with 100 characters each. That's ((12+99) * 4) = 444 dollars a month... to create 240 million gil. If you went directly for ores on an operation on that scale, all you'd do is collapse the market... because the players don't need that many ores and they'd become worthless. But if you went straight to NPC them you've created a steady unchanging supply of gil.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that the recipe for Ore is the same one for Leaves, with the same gestation period. And you can only have 16 characters/POLID, so to get 400 mules you'd need 25 accounts at $29 a month, or $725/month. And each mule has 10 pots, so 4000 pots.

Not even counting the tremendous expense of getting 300+ stacks of Saplings (time or gil) and they somehow get 1 stack of leaves from each pot (no clusters, no ores, nothing else) that's 160 million 'new gil' minus the 47 million or so you'd need to start up such a venture (unless, of course, the gilsellers can also grow cuttings -> saplings at the same time, farming up hundreds of stacks of those at a time.)
 
CubsWoo said:
As an aside, think of things as simple as renting a chocobo. This is just a guesstimate (and a conservative one) but I'd say in a given day, our server has 10,000 seperate chocobo rentals. I'd wager it's double that on more populated days. And let's put the average chocobo rental fee at... I dunno, 500 gil.

Just from that, 5 MILLION gil is being taken out of the economy every day because people need to get from point A to point B. This doesn't take into account airships (4 ships, 4 flights/hour, 2 routes, 200 a ride minus the people that do Discerning Eye on the return to Jeuno = more gil out,) outpost warpers, ferry riders, even small stuff like the Moblin NPC who gets you out of Newton.

The 'new gil' argument, imo, is one that doesn't hold water when you step back and look at the big picture.
Click to expand...

But how many people are doing repeatable quests to bring new gil back into the game. I know I’ve brought 50k onto our server in a single day. There is on average 2500 people online, let’s say a eighth of them (312 people) are doing repeatable quests and bring in 5k an hour (which is easy to do). In 10 hours 15,600,000 new gil will be created. There is too much gil moving around for us to even speculate on it. Such a statistic would require SE to give us that information.

But either way I degrees, too many people are trying to point at a single cause for price inflation. It is the same for the people who want to blame the cost of gas simple on SUV’s only. It is a lot of contributing factors causing the inflection, and the only thing that is going to fix it is for us to stop buying over price goods, stop price jacking, and start undercutting prices.

But if you really feel you must point at a single cause, it is this; too many people want to be rich on our server, but don’t want to pay high prices.
 
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