Here's the deal....

P

Padington

Windurst's King in Exile
Adventurer
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Messages
379
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Ontario, Canada
I'm not sure where to post this now since we don't have a Flameboard anymore...and it's not really a flame either...so you all decide.

Like the title says...Here's the deal.

I defended my friend Cinder against the tirade people were launching against him on the NW forum section because he's my friend. After I did this he came on and said what seems to be opposed to what I said in his defence...I feel foolish because I stuck by him since I attributed less malicous motives to alot of the people concerned (him included). I failed to take into account the penchant for drama everyone has over things like this and tried to be loyal to a friend. I still trust Cinder to return borrowed items or pay-back a loan, which he would never take because he's too proud, but from now on I won't bother defending anyone since it's either unappreciated or missunderstood. All I can say is that he's been cheated and screwed over alot in the past in this game and I guess he reached his breaking point...that's not a justification just an explanation as to how I imagine he must feel.

Not much more to say since nobody reading this will see anything they don't want to see...Sorry if that seems a little harsh but it's my experience that people always assume the worst of other's motives and intentions. Thank you.
 
Padington said:
I won't bother defending anyone since it's either unappreciated or missunderstood. [...] an explanation as to how I imagine he must feel.
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This is actually the best example as to why those who are not directly involved should stay out of the NW threads. This is more so of a general statement, but it just happens to fit this particular case as well.

Fact is, no one can possibly know for sure how, why, when, and where someone else did something. Imagining the answers really doesn't help for the most part and often leads to an unneeded escalation of the situation.

Sticking up for a friend is great, that's what friends are for. IMHO the best thing a friend can do for a friend is to bring up whatever issue becomes known to the affected player in person via /tell, email, PM, chat, whatever, and let them decide how they want to proceed.
 
Padington said:
I'm not sure where to post this now since we don't have a Flameboard anymore...and it's not really a flame either...so you all decide.

Like the title says...Here's the deal.

I defended my friend Cinder against the tirade people were launching against him on the NW forum section because he's my friend. After I did this he came on and said what seems to be opposed to what I said in his defence...I feel foolish because I stuck by him since I attributed less malicous motives to alot of the people concerned (him included). I failed to take into account the penchant for drama everyone has over things like this and tried to be loyal to a friend. I still trust Cinder to return borrowed items or pay-back a loan, which he would never take because he's too proud, but from now on I won't bother defending anyone since it's either unappreciated or missunderstood. All I can say is that he's been cheated and screwed over alot in the past in this game and I guess he reached his breaking point...that's not a justification just an explanation as to how I imagine he must feel.

Not much more to say since nobody reading this will see anything they don't want to see...Sorry if that seems a little harsh but it's my experience that people always assume the worst of other's motives and intentions. Thank you.
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Defending your friends is not a bad thing to do, in fact it's admirable to be that good a friend; but all you did was say "at least he was honest and he's a good guy" without really defending him.

Sculli said:
Fact is, no one can possibly know for sure how, why, when, and where someone else did something. Imagining the answers really doesn't help for the most part and often leads to an unneeded escalation of the situation.
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This is why the friend defense doesn't work. Just because someone's nice to you doesn't mean they're not an ass to everyone else and doesn't mean they're incapable of doing the wrong thing. Defend your friends, but actually defend them, don't just say that "it couldn't happen" for no reason.
 
Sculli...true words...but when when the trolls are breaking out the steaksauce it's hard to sit back and do nothing, more so when it's a friend. The constant stream of social-pressure and heavy-duty BS people pour over other's on our server has reached insane levels and I'm serious when I say I despair for people who just want to have fun. It used to be fun but with everyone at 75 and people lusting after AF2 and other material things everyone is acting like damn fools.

Bajaratt...You are overly-cynical and really need to stop attributing the absolute worst motives and intentions to everyone. You read people's posts and then try and "spin" them to change the writer's original intent. Have you ever written a post that wasn't negative or took a shot at someone?
 
Padington said:
Bajaratt...You are overly-cynical and really need to stop attributing the absolute worst motives and intentions to everyone. You read people's posts and then try and "spin" them to change the writer's original intent. Have you ever written a post that wasn't negative or took a shot at someone?
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You're definitely confusing me with someone else or you're just upset about how I didn't care about Cinder's "good nature" because that entire response is dead-wrong. I'm sorry if me not thinking that because someone who cheats/screws someone over is nice to you that it exonerates them from any wrong doing. I've had friends who messed up and did something wrong, but I didn't try to defend them by just saying they were nice to me so they should be forgiven, I'd actually bring something to the table in terms of defense.

I'm sure that everyone who has stolen/mpk'd/been a prick in general has friends who he's nice to, but it's pointless to the discussion of what happened/were they right to bring it up. You're presenting irrelevant information to the discussion and trying to pass it off as a universal band-aid for people's errors; you could have just said "his favorite color is blue" and would have defended him on the same level.
 
Padington, lemme put it into terms you can understand...
Moneyman: "Wanna loan me 4mil? I swear I won't pay you back."
Would people be bad for not loaning this guy money because he's honest? Hell no, and the guy/Dynamis situation is the exact same thing.
 
This still presupposes he's done the things people say when I know from direct observation he hasn't. Everyone is too quick to start building a fire the second someone yells "Witch!" these days. He shouldn't have said what he did when you stop to consider the attitudes of people in these sort of Linkshells...but...maybe he just wasn't paranoid enough to consider how much drama would arise from it. You also never answered my question about you posting something that wasn't negative. Skip it..I'm too tired to argue anymore.

Mish...I see where your coming from and I agree that your analogy is an appropriate one but my complaint was that people are so quick to attribute evil to him for some badly chosen words. Someone said "Deeds, not words maketh the man" but all it takes is someone attacking him on here and it's a feeding frenzy for the trolls. If people had talked it out instead of flying off and acting like some enraged gibbons this need not have even started.

I'm sorry if people don't agree with me but all I can say is...I've never stolen from or cheated anyone but I've been cheated and stolen from and I still try as hard as I can to not let it colour my view of others. I wish other people would be more willing to do this before lighting another fire.
 
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Cinder admitted that if he gets to Xarcabard that he'll still lot on the RDM Hat
Cinder admitted that he tried to take the Sandy AF2 even though he was told to pass...

You don't need as much direct observation, when the accused happily admits to the charges :P
 
Padington said:
This still presupposes he's done the things people say when I know from direct observation he hasn't. Everyone is too quick to start building a fire the second someone yells "Witch!" these days. He shouldn't have said what he did when you stop to consider the attitudes of people in these sort of Linkshells...but...maybe he just wasn't paranoid enough to consider how much drama would arise from it. You also never answered my question about you posting something that wasn't negative. Skip it..I'm too tired to argue anymore.
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I didn't answer your question about me always posting something negative, because it was stupid. I honestly figured you weren't even expecting a response to it, but since you evidently did: yes I do post positive things. Most of my posts are not negative, they're informative. I can post links to a few hundred non-negative posts if you want.

Padington said:
Mish...I see where your coming from and I agree that your analogy is an appropriate one but my complaint was that people are so quick to attribute evil to him for some badly chosen words. Someone said "Deeds, not words maketh the man" but all it takes is someone attacking him on here and it's a feeding frenzy for the trolls. If people had talked it out instead of flying off and acting like some enraged gibbons this need not have even started.
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Daveman posted screenshots of the chat logs where Cinder admitted that he would ignore the rules and steal from the shell. There's no twisting of words, there's no trying to lynch an unjustly accused person, he's fucking guilty, and he at least had the balls to own up to it. There's no drama in not wanting someone who admits they will steal from your linkshell, people weren't jumping at the bit to flame some innocent person, stop making everyone else out to be the bad guy. Cinder is not a hero, he's your friend but that doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong. He admits he will not follow the rules and will act purely in his own self-interest without regard for others; it doesn't matter if he gives his gil to tarutaru orphans, very few people will want someone they cannot trust with them.

This also has nothing to do with your complete lack of defense for him. I'm sure he's a great guy to you, but that's completely irrelevant given the context of the thread. You're not even defending your own position, just trying to make me look like a troll because you don't have any ground to stand on. Again, defending your friends is fine, but actually defend them; saying "I know him, he's a great guy," is not a defense, it's unimportant fluff.

Padington said:
I'm sorry if people don't agree with me but all I can say is...I've never stolen from or cheated anyone but I've been cheated and stolen from and I still try as hard as I can to not let it colour my view of others. I wish other people would be more willing to do this before lighting another fire.
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More rhetoric designed to make you look like a saint while the rest of us are trolls. I'm not apologizing or going to feel sorry for not wanting to deal with people who aren't willing to play fair. You can play with them, I don't care, but stop acting like it makes you better than everyone else.
 
Assuming QCDN Cinder = FFXI Cinder.

Not saying it's not true, I don't even know the guy. Just pointing out QCDN admission from someone who has 2 posts total on this board should at least be confirmed.
 
Unless this is another doppleganger like the Deniro-Shaw incident, I'd say your defense of Cinder has very weak grounds, Padington. I don't think anyone thinks any ill of you, though. You're just defending your friend. That's by and large considered a good thing. What I do when my friends are guilty of something they're accused of, is say nothing. I'll defend my innocent friends, and I won't condemn my guilty friends, but I won't defend my guilty friends either. I won't lie for anyone. Anyhow, don't worry about your own rep, Padington. Just realize Cinder brought his fate on himself. All you can do is try to persuade him to act more in line with community values. I mean, in all honesty, he screwed up, yes, but he's hardly the next public enemy #1 like Colbwa or Roofie. In a few weeks, maybe a few months, if he hasn't done anything notorious, his misdeeds now will be largely forgotten. Sure, the prominent Dynamis LS will still have him blackballed, but not every Dynamis LS frequents QCDN. If Cinder takes care not to ruin his name outside of QCDN (a seemingly difficult task considering the people I see continuing to advance), he'll be just fine, and so will you.
 
Padington said:
Sculli...true words...but when when the trolls are breaking out the steaksauce it's hard to sit back and do nothing, more so when it's a friend. The constant stream of social-pressure and heavy-duty BS people pour over other's on our server has reached insane levels and I'm serious when I say I despair for people who just want to have fun. It used to be fun but with everyone at 75 and people lusting after AF2 and other material things everyone is acting like damn fools.

Bajaratt...You are overly-cynical and really need to stop attributing the absolute worst motives and intentions to everyone. You read people's posts and then try and "spin" them to change the writer's original intent. Have you ever written a post that wasn't negative or took a shot at someone?
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Overly-cynical?
LOL

I've known Baj for 2+ years and Baj is one of the most selfless people I have ever met.

Just stickin' up for my friend.
 
Overly-Cynical is just what it says...Baj has a dark and untrusting view of just about every person I've ever seen him (or her) post about. I haven't seen a single post that wasn't negative in one way or another, it's possible I missed one but I can only speak from my own experience reading those posts. I didn't say anything about Baj being selfish or mean...plenty of people can be cynical and still helpful...they aren't mutualy exclusive.
 
Overly-Cynical is just what it says...Baj has a dark and untrusting view of just about every person I've ever seen him (or her) post about. I haven't seen a single post that wasn't negative in one way or another, it's possible I missed one but I can only speak from my own experience reading those posts. I didn't say anything about Baj being selfish or mean...plenty of people can be cynical and still helpful...they aren't mutualy exclusive.
 
Please check the definition of cynical...it doesn't involve someone's ability to be helpful. I never implied Baj wasn't helpful. At least you stuck-up for a friend...let's hope your appreciated.
 
OMG...lag hell...someone please delete those two identical posts...I don't know how that happened when I tried to delete it in favour of the short one. /blush
 
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