Hmm, let's see if I'm doing this right. Dumbamis.com

[Javir]

Mansin, Arros, ty for wasting my time. now I've got bigger and better things to delve into.

Well, I didn't say you were posting -for- him. But you still quoted something written by a member banned from the site. Something that was recently a 10day RO.

nvm, more wasted time.. getting banned for quoting something someone said is not being a proxy poster...

Anyhow, onto the bigger better things.

Incorrect. Your last run with Dumbamis was on the 7th of December. By the time you went "in the red" on Thursdays, you stopped coming completely. You went "in the red" on the 21st of December. Your "I'm ditching your shell" pm arrived on the 23rd of December. Stop trying to act like you did anything noble, as you did not.



You asked questions? All I saw was a mindless, incorrect rant.

Take notes ladies and gentlemen, because mature responsible leaders call other people names.. Oh and makes you more right.

Spoiler:

sarcasm

Oops, you're right. That means you missed 4/10 runs instead of 3/9. Thanks for the correction. Also my math was wrong on when you went "in the red" on Thursdays. It was on the 14th of December. The point still stands that you didn't attend a run without lotting privileges since you didn't come on the 21st.

So your records, or at least you ability to decipher your own records, are just utter failure? Come on Rappa, I'm trying to take you seriously, but you make it harder.

I know for sure I attended at the very least one run when I was 'in the red', cause I was setting my seacom and Chimax yelled to me saying "I thought you couldn't lot tonight", to which I replied, oh yeah! And erased it. No, I'm not trying to be noble, but I definately attended without being allowed to lot. Keep better "records" than your half assed spread sheet if you can't remember.

And yes, to be fair, I didn't ask questions. My apologies.

If you could though, please address:

- How Chimax receiving AF count towards my extensive drop list making me look like a loot whore.
- Why your BLMs not being able to do what I do, in any way, makes me an uncooperative player.

Basically, I left your shell, and you didn't want me to. That's what all this boils down to. I didn't like your shell and I left. I ran with you for 6-7 runs, missed a few runs due to other events, decided it wasn't for me, and left. If you're implying I took the loot and ran, fuck off. I got the BLM body and the MNK body. I can buy a black cloak on the AH and do the exact same thing as the BLM relic body, and I asked the other MNK in attendance 3 damn times to lot the other one before I did, which isn't much more use.

So basically, I joined your shell, tried it out, all things considered it wasn't working for me, and I left. Then the Q_Qing on your wall of shame started.

Sounds reasonable. Though that is a douche bag move to pull, I'd bet if you went strait to Rappa or other leadership, you'd be a little better off? no?

My beef was directly with you. Its your shell, your site, and your officer. Thats why the beef was brought here. Because you're allowing my name to be posted on your site with a bullshit write up under it, for anyone in the community to see. Therefore, slugger, I brought it up here, for the community.

Trying to get me banned for something the mods already agreed was good to go though to shut me up, thats a nice touch.

Recapping one more time, then would love to hear what other folks think of this.

I joined the shell. I told Rappa I'd have to leave early almost every run. He agreed.
I received an AF item, that no one else had commented.
I received a free lot AF item, that I tried to give away.
I attended several more runs after that.
I joined a salvage group.
My attendance began to suffer as I couldn't juggle both.
I eventually had to make a decision, made it, and told him upfront I was quitting.
No harse words were traded between either of us.
A month after the fact, I end up on his wall of shame, portrayed as a loot whore, someone who wasn't a team player, and a person he community should watch out for.
I bring my beef here.
Rappa's defence thus far, (at least the only part that wasn't horse shit), was my attendance was weak. Which, I've admitted, after the first couple of weeks, it was. Hense why I quit. I don't like thinking I can't be relied on, and I also didn't want to leave my Salvage group. So I quit.

So folks, read my original quote, read my explaination, read Rappa's constant hammering home of the point my attendance sucks, read how he tries to redirect this back to his site constantly to get the attention off, and tell me this:

Do you think I really did anything wrong, by joining his shell, running with it, realizing it wasn't for me, then leaving?

The question that has yet to be clearly answered is this: does attendance have a point value, which is then pooled... or is it a system where points only exist to show your lot eligibility, period.

If its the first option, I'd agree any member allowed to lot for any reason (be it free lot or w/e), then you earned it in advance.

Reading the website, its the later. So based on their rules, you can't lot until essentially your 3rd or 4th run, except free lot. It would seam to me that the only required commitment is the have 3/4 runs after an initial 2-week trial period, to lot. Nothing about what happens after you are allowed to lot it, whether via free lot or after trial is over.

Really, the gear is honestly a moot point in this entire argument. He earned it fairly by your rules. It may suck and people like this I can understand being considered as disrespectful (hell I would), but none of the Dumbamis members owe any leader/officer/member of Dumbamis anything after they get their gear. This is the case in most cases, especially in non-HNM. Obviously the ones who are truly thankful and mindful of your collective effort will stay and/or show some method of appreciation. Kudos to those of you that do.

Well since it looks like you finally posted where you're supposed to, there's nothing left to say here. You said your take on your time in our shell. People are welcome to read what you said, read what I said, and decide if you are worth the risk or not. Like my sig states, I urge people not to invite you. Whether they do or not is beyond my caring. Good luck in whatever you do, "slugger". Despite the fact that you've been nothing but rude to me personally in this topic despite my general neutrality in the whole situation speaks volumes, in my opinion.

I'd hardly say you've been neutral, or you have a very sewed view of neutrality (maybe even reality, but this isn't what this thread is about.. I don't think).

My emphasis in Bavaria's post. He committed to us and then after doing so started a salvage group he admits caused him to miss more than one run. He created the "scheduling conflict", my shell isn't to blame for this. Again, this is all freely admitted to in the OP. He can't use salvage as a defense when he's the one who put himself in that situation. If he wanted to do salvage at a time that conflicted with the shell he committed to, he should've left us first or found a better time to do salvage. But then again, as you can see that doesn't matter to him.

Ah, see... there's that committed word again. I think I hardly need to repost in the same thread my thoughts on that. Bavaria did handle this like an ass as far as not coming to you right away. So there is a glimmer of hope for you, well spoken.

You made a choice to leave a group after getting gear (2 pieces is still 2 pieces) that you committed to before your second group. If there was a conflict, the responsible thing would have been to leave the second group, not the first. You left for greedy reasons, which again to quote your IM to me, were "to work on some low man things, focusing more on Xarc and CoP areas." That implies less and less that it was so much a conflict of times and more and more that you joined salvage as an excuse to leave dumbamis and go play with your friends instead.

Bumblebetuna has already been answered. Jamal didn't leave a very detailed post on the WoS. I've since elaborated to make it more clear why you were chosen to be added rather than just ignored when you left. If you really want me to keep adding more to the topic, I'd be happy to. I haven't mentioned that quote about you leaving us to lowman north/dreamlands with friends yet, I'll add that as well to your entry if you'd like.

It's funny, almost no one actually read that topic before you came here about it. Now it's been read by tons of people. You've actually drawn attention to something that was generally ignored. So grats, I guess.

Rappa, I only point this out because the bold part just doesn't work. Again your own rules clearly state that he was right to lot those items, and you've not argued his right to lot, just that he got them and ran. That should be the focus here, to warn others that he might earn gear and run off. And has a shitty attendance record.

Nice try, but no. You joined my shell before you started salvage. You knew our runtimes. You went ahead and did salvage after the fact. That makes them your second group. I've talked about doing salvage for a long time, since before I created both of my shells. If I decide to start running tomorrow, that doesn't mean my salvage shell was my first shell.



"Lotting gear and ditching is okay, as long as it's not important gear." Right on. Tell that to your potential ls leaders in advance and see what they think about it.

Oh btw, if what you say is true and you really were talking in advance about starting a salvage shell which you presumably knew would interfere with our runtimes, why did do a) join our shell and b) lot on your first run?

First bold: I agree as far as I challenge him to tell other leaders that he feels its ok to get gear and leave. unimportant or important are improper words however, again citing the "he earned it per your rules with no rules about commitment on freelot items".

I hope not, we need Mansin aka Frostedbutts (seriously? that's your name? explains why you go by "Mansin" here) to repeat himself another couple times. The funny thing is it came within two minutes of Bavaria posting he was done again or whatever. I can actually literally picture them sitting on an IM or skype or something...

Bavaria: Okay, I'm about to hit enter.... get ready for your hilarious reply!
Frostedbutts: lololol I'm ready!
Bavaria: Go!!!!
Frostedbutts: Sec. God we're gonna GET him!

etc

Um... kay? funny yes, help your argument? no. And Mansin, god what a waste of posts he has been.



Anyhow, having co-lead several shells now, I can safely conclude that the unfortunate reality is that there are Bavaria's out there, and they suck. But when you run into this situation as frustrating and angry it can make you, the most you can do is note for others that "he walked after earning free lotted gear and is an ass wipe for being irresponsible with his attempt to be a part of the shell".

Bavaria, you're an inconsiderate ass, but good luck

Rappa, you get riled up too easily and your consistent need to find a way to mock someone who you don't like or challenges you discredits you a great deal more than really has to be necessary. It also tends to get you to stick your foot in your mouth every so often.

2nd biggest clique, I just don't get this. I see at least 4 people with it (late night, may have missed others), and I know Jamal would be a 5th (if he wasn't banned). Only thing to say perception is key, and while I can't judge for myself not knowing you all, the perception I've been given is that you guys get very cocky and needlessly condescending... even if you get your own foot in your mouth. I just want to say, as seemingly smart individuals, that you take to heart what each other says and how they act on your behalf.


final note: I took screen shots of the rules, just in case they conveniently change. just simple print screens.

 

[Princemercury]

Post.

After holding off on this thread and now just reading everything, this sums it up nicely.

 

[Bumblebetuna]

this thread needs more shamwow

Ok this Made me lolz/WTF at the same time....why?..Because for one its "Shamwow!" Now the Fucked up part you said it wrong or you didn't even try to say that shit with Feeling. The Right way to say it..

SHAMWOW!!!!!!!!

Now i got that out the way! back to the topic. No one on here likes me and i know this and i could give two shits, but the point of this matter is really pointless, Rappa i seen you around for a very long time and i know you really like to get shit done and i envy you for that!? but here you're letting me down, Yeah Bav left you're ls, you're pissed and Yes you have every right to be, but has many years i been here i seen you move forward, And never stoped Moving Forward to be the best at what you do.

Now why this has stoped you is beyond me, cut you're loses and move on, So dude got two Relic, thats his gain and you're lost(i'm Sorry) from the looks of if you lost Drama and not face of you're ls.

 

[Silenus]

Holy crap that post is full of retard.

Rappa wins.

Rappa always wins.

 

[Ata]

Rappa, you get riled up too easily and your consistent need to find a way to mock someone who you don't like or challenges you discredits you a great deal more than really has to be necessary. It also tends to get you to stick your foot in your mouth every so often.

The 'Wall of shame' you've produced is just pointing out flaws in your lotting rules.

 

[Redshift]

Why is Rappa and Audino so obsessed with Mansin and Arros? You'd think they had stolen their pasaphires as little kids. It's cute and all, but I think they're taken guys.

 

[Morcheeba]

Why is Rappa and Audino so obsessed with Mansin and Arros? You'd think they had stolen their pasaphires as little kids. It's cute and all, but I think they're taken guys.

Really?? You don't think that's an incredible exaggeration?

 

[Javir]

The 'Wall of shame' you've produced is just pointing out flaws in your lotting rules.

It's not my wall and they're not my lotting rules.

I can't say I agree with having a wall of shame, but that's my opinion. from reading them all, I'd say Rappa's posts on the other 'Wall of Shame'rs hasn't been riddled with speculative information. Jamal's post shouldn't have made reference to server transfer or him being Amerie's friend. It should have stuck to the facts of the shame he caused.

alternate rant, but kinda goes with it a tiny bit

Spoiler:

And server transferring it self shouldn't be a shameful act, because I'm sure there are a large number of transfers that sneak under the radar. Only a few who get criminalized because they try to jump too high too soon onto the big players scene, and often these players also did have some sort of Drama they were escaping elsewhere.

As for the rules on lotting, there is no perfect system in a game where you have no way to recover items once they drop. Even if they weren't Exclusive, if the player who has them won't give it back up, there's nothing more they can do but complain. The only flaw is the lack of someone to accurately quantify the efforts of others to repay them in similar efforts. The best way is using points, but this is also the least trusting way. Rappa's system is a good system based on faith that people will stay for a solid amount of time. The only thing most shells try to not put out there is what is considered quantifiable time.

Typically its judged that a good player who solidly benefits the shell and spends about 6-8 runs per item they get, and reliably so. Obviously this number varies, an HNM shell for example would expect 4-5 months of quantifiable service for even an ok drop. Lets say an A.body would fit this group. Obviously the shell can never get this back, but their efforts aren't badly wasted if they get 4-5months after you get the drop. Obviously the more you get, or the more rare the drop you should help more. An Ebody you might argue should be 6-8months after getting, if it's the only drop you get. Normally members stick around for this reason and likely more gear as well. Some also stay for friends. Regardless of the reason, these people make everyone's efforts worth while.

Most people reading this will say 'duh' but hopefully this clues you in Ata. Rappa has a legitimate grief against Bavaria. Bavaria threw Rappa's faith into his face without concern. Rappa's only negative point in this post is that you can't make it seam like he didn't earn the pieces, only that Bavaria's ability to quantify his service in return for the items he earned was lacking. And fairly warn shells that the key character trait a good shell hopes for wasn't portrayed by Bavaria.

Anyhow, I'm ranting and I could go on and on, but I think I've said more than enough.

 

[Javir]

Why is Rappa and Audino so obsessed with Mansin and Arros? You'd think they had stolen their pasaphires as little kids. It's cute and all, but I think they're taken guys.

Ok man, seriously. I've never had a problem with you before... but this has nothing to do with the OP, and you seam as obsessed about Rappa and Audino as you claim they are about Mansin and Arros. I see little difference. If you are such a better person, don't you think you'd not play they game you claim that they're playing?

Spoiler:

or did they steal your pacifier? o.o!

 

[Miros]

Rappa, you get riled up too easily and your consistent need to find a way to mock someone who you don't like or challenges you discredits you a great deal more than really has to be necessary. It also tends to get you to stick your foot in your mouth every so often.

2nd biggest clique, I just don't get this. I see at least 4 people with it (late night, may have missed others), and I know Jamal would be a 5th (if he wasn't banned). Only thing to say perception is key, and while I can't judge for myself not knowing you all, the perception I've been given is that you guys get very cocky and needlessly condescending... even if you get your own foot in your mouth. I just want to say, as seemingly smart individuals, that you take to heart what each other says and how they act on your behalf.

Man the more I read your posts on this board, the more I want to sever the ties. How can you sit there and try to put shame on Dino and Rappa about being very cocky and needlessly condescending when on your post we see:

Mansin, Arros, ty for wasting my time. now I've got bigger and better things to delve into.

nvm, more wasted time...onto bigger and better things

Take notes ladies and gentlemen, because mature responsible leaders call other people names.. Oh and makes you more right.

Spoiler:

sarcasm[/sarcasm]

Spoiler:

Come on Rappa, I'm trying to take you seriously, but you make it harder.

I'd bet if you went strait to Rappa or other leadership, you'd be a little better off? no?

And Mansin, god what a waste of posts he has been.

Anyhow, having co-lead several shells now, I can safely conclude that the unfortunate reality is that there are Bavaria's out there, and they suck. But when you run into this situation as frustrating and angry it can make you, the most you can do is note for others that "he walked after earning free lotted gear and is an ass wipe for being irresponsible with his attempt to be a part of the shell".

This last quote just for some reason pricked me in a poor spot. I guess I'm just tired of hearing the whole pompous attitude of "Oh well I have co-lead shells and my farts smell better then yours." I basically came to that conclusion after reading the post and seeing all the cocky and condescending replies you had.

 

[Bedwarmer]

this thread needs more shamwow

All the Shamwow in the world won't dismiss the fact that Bavaria basically said thanks for the AF and bailed. The reason can be sugarcoated all day long with "scheduling conflict," but the fact still remains he left to do Salvage. When the concept of the Salvage shell was originally conceived is less than a moot point, as is the quality of the AF received.

I query Rappa:

If your shell is attendance/point based, why was he allowed to lot the BLM body on his first run?


Did anyone EVER, during a run when the actions were taking place, express that they were displeased with how Bavaria was performing his duties as BLM?

 

[Mirewen]

I think it was said that it went free lot?

 

[Bedwarmer]

I think it was said that it went free lot?

I remember for sure the MNK body was free lot. Idk for sure the BLM body.

 

[Mirewen]

I remember for sure the MNK body was free lot. Idk for sure the BLM body.

You're right.

Glacier run, I was the only one there with BLM commented, and won the body by default.

Kinda the same though I guess lol.

 

[Morcheeba]

You're right.

Kinda the same though I guess lol.

It was stated that Bavaria asked 'meeze' 3 different times but to no avail, 'meeze' did not respond so yea, by default.

 

[Mirewen]

It was stated that Bavaria asked 'meeze' 3 different times but to no avail, 'meeze' did not respond so yea, by default.

That was the MNK body silly

 

[Bedwarmer]

You're right.



Kinda the same though I guess lol.

Good times.

I have difficulty believing that with a squad of already admittedly new BLM's that a body item would go to a default lot.

 

[Morcheeba]

That was the MNK body silly

My bad >.>;

 

[Mirewen]

I hate you!! :dur:

 

[Morcheeba]

Glacier run, I was the only one there with BLM commented, and won the body by default. Same run, MNK body drops, it goes down to free lot 50+, I speak up and tell them I have it, but I see a guy named Meeze there on MNK.

Yea whatever that means lol. I won't pretend to know shit about these types of ingame commitments as I have nooo interest.