HOLY CRAP (update details)

[TiyaKelth]

Yay, I want a Peacock Charm and a hairpin

You're level 68, and you had to wait for them to gimp VE so there will be no competition for you to camp him and get one? The drop rate is about 40% without any TH, 80% with TH2. I had my first Emp Pin at level 36 as a BLM. With those odds, you don't think its lazy to wait until SE practically hands you the item, and then bash people who lost 20mil in the process? Obviously your ideas in this argument are moot, as you've never worked for an item in your life.

 

[Mattaru]

This is a ridiculous change, people camp Argus for a PCC or for the gil, they earned it. If anyone is whining it is yet again the poor and lazy or as they like to call themselves "We have lives and anyone that has gil does not" type of people.

PCC should never change, and I cannot BELIEVE you people are so god damn lazy that you can't even camp an Emp pin, with TH2 it's like a 70% drop! Leaping Lizzy is the easiest NM to claim as well! Wtf people?

I'm going to agree with Vang, but tweak it a bit. The first paragraph, I agree if you are so obsessive to go and camp Argus and you get the PCC congratulations, you did earn it, you put your sanity at risk possibly, but you earned whatever someone buys it off you from. BUT if there is another means to obtain a similar item, and its rare/ex that only means that now what you have to do to get a similar item may be less (the specifics are obviously in question), so what if it takes less to earn an item? So what if there are different ways of doing it? All it means is an item is now more accessable, obviously people such as Vang dislike that, because having accessability to higher levels of succes in the game seems to devalue their attempts at getting where they are today, but what they fail to recognize in the first place is that this is a game and what you get from it is how you play it and their path has merit unto itself. Unfortunately it seems that they dont realize this if they dont get others to recognize it too.....

Anyways, if the extra items are of equal, and even just to a lesser degree, difficulty to obtain the regular items will probably maintain a slightly lesser price. But, if you obtain these items from the same NMs than the non ex/rare are just going to go up in price because the same people who were paying for them before but do not want to camp it are still going to buy it, but the supply is now limited on the original item. So I don't know what Leg is complaining about if these items will be obtained from the same NMs, because he decided to farm for it not camp it, so why would that change now if its the same?

And yeah Vang's right Emp drops it like its hot. I cant blame people for not wanting to stay in Gustaberg xD.

This isn't a "we're sad because we are lazy" nerf, its a gilsell, bot nerf for items like PCC and Archer's Ring (I must say I will miss my tarutaru bride Angle ; ., because it allows for people to still be able to obtain these items yet limits gilsellers feasability of using them to sell gil. For items like leapers and emp, i dont think gs camp these really on other servers, so I think that it is more of a way to get players around those levels a more accesable route to those items. I camped both these NM's, LL as a lvl 17-20 thf until i got the boots, and i camped emp at around 42-43 until i got the pin, I'm on my second of both (selling them was a bad idea anyway...), but im not bitter at all, these are seen as necessities to play these jobs up to par and they should be more accessable. (Im reminded of a time a guy once told my thf to farm beehive chips to pay for boots.....I was like sure ill just take a month of time to do that.....now i could do it in about two weeks for them, which are now 300k more expensive but thats because its easier to make money now). And once again, this just means that people that need the item to use are given more ways to do it/more of an advantage against higher lvl players that sell items for gil. If anything it would increase teamwork at these NM camps because people that want the item can team up and kill LL multiple times so everyone gets the item....instead of me running around casting dia on LL as thf/whm against 6 other campers or running around with my bow and arrow w/ ws and no flee >.>; , I was only able to get boots after i had WS which was accesible a good 15 levels after they are really useful (SA).

 

[meeze]

Vang, I understand your side of this arguement, but most of those people driving the 500k cars, are trust fund babies who didn't work for the money, or got dumb luck on an invention. This is comparable to somebody who struck gold by seeing an unclaimed NM and taking it, and getting drops, or someone who had a friend quit and give them all sorts of money. That's where the majority of the rich folk come from. There are very few people, like yourself, who worked hard for what they have. I know you worked your ass off for where you are, but a great majority just got lucky and now bitch because they're "losing money". You deserve all the money in the world if you sat there and farmed beehive chips till you had enough for that Scorps Harness. That's just not the case very often, it's usually lucky drops at random times.

I would have to disagree 100% with your statement. Your calling everyone with a 500k car a trustfund baby is the equivalent of calling everyone with gil a gil buyer. the simple fact is that there a lot more people bagging grocieries at the supermarket than there is rolling around in a 500k car. Just like there are more people with spike necklaces than there are with PCCs.

I farmed 500k in the same time it took my friend to camp his O kote(which were also 500k at the time). i was 45 DRK, he was 51 PLD. Meanwhilea shitload of people were level whoring their way to uber gimpness. While he was camping and i was farming we would /t each other about who was what level and how shitty their gear was.

Now you are trying to tell me that the same type of people who level whored thier way without pieces of gear that they could farm/camp are going to miracoulously(butchered that spelling) because of this update go camp these items now?

The people who level give the excuses "I don't have time to farm/camp" "My job doesn't allow me to make gil" "There is always people where i farm/camp"

Do you honestly think these same excuses aren't going to come flowing out of these retards mouths on rare/ex items?

There is already an abundance or rare/ex items that people don't go after, SE is just adding to that list. The same amount of people who camp/farm are going to be the ones at these sites, and the same lazy people who don't do either are going to remain gimp or standing at the check out counter of IGE.

 

[Taurothar]

You know what'd be great: If they made all the drops like 80-100% for the Rare/Ex, and the sellable like 5-20% all dropped off of the same NMs. That way the people camping to use the item can get invited to lot on the Ex ones dropped by the people camping for profit.

 

[vang]

One more quick point about the PCC since alot of people are not NM campers and could care less about how a few of us make or have made our gil.

6 months ago Argus only spawned in one spot, conditions were the same as far as 24-etc hour spawn with LK cancelling that alot just like it is now.

My point is, it was very tough to get a claim down there on Argus, it was easily botted, and ONLY premium or JP connections were winning the claims down there, or the lucky.

So what did SE do after everyone whined? They changed his spawn locations completeley to where it's virtually impossible to bot or turbo voke with any success giving Joe Schmo a better chance to get his own PCC, but yet once again, the masses are still too lazy to camp Argus and COMPLAIN EVEN MORE.

and thus 6 months after they change this, they are now so sick of the crying they are considering another means for you to get it...give me a fucking break.

Seriously you have to understand how pathetic this makes the whiners look to the ones who camped him and busted our ass to make the gil down there.

You guys would just have a hay day if they made Argus a forced pop would you not? :roll: Hell knowing some of this board you would probably be too lazy to get the pop items even if mandys dropped them.

 

[Rappa]

You're level 68, and you had to wait for them to gimp VE so there will be no competition for you to camp him and get one? The drop rate is about 40% without any TH, 80% with TH2. I had my first Emp Pin at level 36 as a BLM. With those odds, you don't think its lazy to wait until SE practically hands you the item, and then bash people who lost 20mil in the process? Obviously your ideas in this argument are moot, as you've never worked for an item in your life.

Nice try, except that you're wrong. That's okay though, you're already stereotyping the hell out of people in this topic, so I'm not surprised. I've had a pin before, but I sold it when I stopped playing with thief and didn't need it anymore. Now I have a chance to farm another one with less competition for when I feel like levelling up ninja (a job I really hate and don't want to spend the gil needed to buy a pin on).

But that's okay because I'm full of crap and you obviously know everything about me, right? :wink:

 

[Nifal]

On a side note... anyone who might have been loaning out their emperor's hairpin, anyone who might have been muling it might been totally screwed!

ha ha ha!!! damn that would suck if you were muling it atm XD... but wait the emperoros Hairpin isnt Rare/EX :/ just that something totally diffrent drops it.. and the emperor drops a R/E replica of it

 

[Taurothar]

You guys would just have a hay day if they made Argus a forced pop would you not? :roll: Hell knowing some of this board you would probably be too lazy to get the pop items even if mandys dropped them.

And on that note: Vang, care to help me get some pop items? :lol:

I honestly don't care much about this update as not 1 of the things they're changing directly effects my char at all. Maybe I'll get a Empy and a PCC but if I wanted an Emp pin, I woulda kept my 2 drops that I already got. And a PCC was never in my mind to be something I'd camp for seriously, let alone keep, but now I *might* get one for my RNG if this Ex business plays out nicely.

And to those who claim I said ALL people with 500k cars are trust fund babies, read it again, I said most. Most of the upper crust of society are family rich, and not work rich. Historically, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This happens till the poor just can't stand it and revolution occurs. I'm pretty much citing the example of the French Revolution here. SE is merely making it so that the poor don't look quite so poor, and the rich, well don't look quite so rich. Yay now people can spend money on the other expensive gil sinks like crafting, or cursed gear -1.

I'm appalled by everyone who thinks that the money spent is money wasted before this update even comes out for us to see how bad it is. Give it time, I don't think that it will be *that* bad, and if it turns out the be horrible, go play a diff game, because SE obviously ruined yours. :roll: MMO's are filled with nerf sticks because the developers can't anticipate how the community will react to given situations, namely in FFXI the Ninja tanks. SE had NO IDEA NIN would be a tank, historically it's just not likely, but that's what happened, so they made efforts to fix that. Now people cry when they're trying to balance out the classes a bit, so that people have some choices instead of being drones.

 

[Firestreak]

I'll say my opinion though you all probably know what I was going to say in the first place. This would have been nice had it been the way FF was INITIALLY set up. However this is years post release this is not beta and I feel they owe some obligation to the people who have invested enourmous amounts of time into certaint items.

I did notice a 2 fold double whammy, by the way. They made it up to 5 times more expensive to try to buy from NPCs for your guild items, while they gut 'n slashed the NM camp in one giant swoop. So basically if pre update you aren't a 100 crafter consider yourself fucked.

I think all NMs should be force pops really or fast respawn but that's how it should be set up initially, I don't agree with sudden and drastic change fucking everyone out of hours and hours of work.

Before you call me biased, I don't have anything like PCC. I've got some lizzy boots and a hairpin but that's no big deal only like a day's work. All of my expensive items are from ENMs, crafted or dropped from gods. But if I had a PCC I'd be spitting blood at this moment in time.

Well Vang I guess you can just be happy you invested a lot into crafting cause it looks like from here on out that's the ONLY way to make serious cash.

 

[Rashyyyk]

If you actually think about it... The drop rate on the Valkrum Emperor and Leaping Lizzy aren't exactly the worst, so I don't see why the actual tradable Leaping Boots and the tradable Emperor's Hairpin will go down in value at all, if anything, they should go up (If we are meant to believe they will be added to a BCNM rather than the current way they are obtained). The people who actually buy the Leaping Boots and the Emperor's Hairpin (Not the people who just complain about not having them) are the people that aren't interested in camping for the item, and now that you need to put together a whole pt to get the Leaping Boots or the Emperors Hairpin to sell...

As far as the Peacock Charm goes, this is a different story... People buy this because of not only the competition but the fact that you could sit around camping for 12 hours and not get the claim at all, let alone get the claim and then get no drop. This is something people will go out of their way to get a group together and do BCNM 15 times so that everyone can get one, or even 30 times if it takes that long! Peacock Charm prices will suffer greatly IMO.

 

[Ezikiel]

I'm gonna laugh when Snipers shoot up to over a million, and the gillsellers move into more of the "honest" profit making areas, so we can bitch about that. Think about it.. a team camping an item 24 hours a day, or a BC that some people randomly do. I feel bad if you havent bought your snipers yet :lol:

Oh, and when you decide you want those leaping boots, or emp pin for that melee job that you started leveling... and you show up to camp to find even more people there due to them skyrocketing at the AH, cause its a new BC drop. (see astrals from 200k to 800+). Yes, making things BC drops helped some items.. but it hurt others, and you can count that its gonna be another low level BC like astrals, due to the low level req to use the items (boots and Pin)

Oh, and dont give me this "Now that the PCC is rare/ex I can finally go camp and get one" I did not see you there camping when it was worth 20 mil, but now you are gonna go spend a week there camping :roll:


Personally I am discusted with this change. SE just took money out of my pocket because of all you lazy whiners. You want to be 1337 work to get there.

And the trust fund baby comment? What world do you live in? The majority of wealthy people did not get that way by some stroke of luck.. thats bullshit. So because I drive a nice car, and have a big house, I'm lucky now? I dont deserve it? WTF....

 

[Nifal]

Vang, I hate to say it, but people like you are the reason this stuff happens... This game is at the point where if a theif doesn't have Leaping boots, Emp pin, +2 rings, and a pair of obnoxiously priced daggers, you think of them as a gimp and their not worth a slot in your pt. Same goes for almost every job now, everyone has to have the best equip all the time, every single spell (namely whm's ~na spells that almost NEVER get used yet cost 100k for a scroll) and yada yada yada for 10 levels past where they are now. All this gear dependancy led to too many people bitching about having to farm for MONTHS to buy the equip to get 5 more levels.

SE saw this and is now trying to make the equip they made severely overpowered, less difficult to obtain. Astral rings and leaping boots are made to help balance out the stats lost by different races, and yet, we see Tarus in the dunes with double Astrals and 10 HP, and we see Mithra theives with boots/pin on. It's all because people see uber gear and expect people to have it, and if they don't, cry GIMP GIMP GIMP. I understand where yes, people like to feel like they have the best and what not, but 800k for 25 mp, or 3 dex/agi is just obnoxious.

And people complain about the economy, well I'll be damned if it's not all of our fault for where it is today. For everyone who DID NOT undercut the AH or at least matched the current going price, for ever person who ever overpriced something on the AH, for anyone who talked down to someone for having lesser gear, YOU ruined the economy because people will pay what they must to stop hearing people call them a gimp, even if it ends up meaning they hafta buy gil to do so. I admit openly that I don't follow what I'm preaching entirely, but hell, 90% of what I list on the AH is at lower than current going rate, because I like fast sales. This update is not gonna fix or ruin the economy, it's only going to increase the options for the other 80% of us who simply don't have the will to farm up 25 mil for a single item while trying to play a game.

And to say "then go play WoW if you can't handle FFXI" is just stupidity, anyone who wants to play FFXI, should play FFXI, and it shouldn't be an elitist game. I hate WoW with a passion, but it's not a bad game for some people. SE is obviously seeing the success of their methods and trying to incorperate some of them to make money. We have made this game to the point where newbs are scared to lfp because they get laughed at by the 1337 players who don't want to waste their time in a shitty dune's pt. This makes them quit early and makes SE lose profit. Updates like this are to make it so that people can start the game, and not go around like an idiot for 6 months.

[/endrant]

Your My hero ^^ that is exactly what i have been trying to say for a very long time I just didnt know how to say it. With the way things were going up until this update the rich only got richer and the poor poorer... this makes this a LOT more fair for everyone out there.... now SE about that Penitent Rope/Elemental Torque help me out !! lol (however they ARE kinda BCNM lol just getting a group to give them to you instead of selling is a problem here , but thats a diffrent discussion )

 

[alanon]

I did notice a 2 fold double whammy, by the way. They made it up to 5 times more expensive to try to buy from NPCs for your guild items, while they gut 'n slashed the NM camp in one giant swoop. So basically if pre update you aren't a 100 crafter consider yourself fucked.

I agree with your post for the most part, except the guild thing I dont think will hurt crafting that much more. I dont know how other guilds are, but with woodworking, there are only 3 things worh getting there anymore: Elm logs, and Ash/Arrowwood lumber, and none of there are ever in stock. I think they are trying to hit the guildcampers.

 

[Sabia]

I'm with Leg, and vang on this one dispite the fact I'm one broke ass'd taru. Do I agree with SE making some alternatives that are easier to obtain (IE RA/EX) for more casual players like myself? Damn rights, do I think they should be as good as the items (PCC) that peeps have just blown 20 mil on? Nope! Yes make some alternatives to make casual players not look like noobs but for the love of god don't make the stats as good as the items that peeps paid 20 mil to get. You want an alternative to an astral for free? Fine but make it +20 MP or +15 rather than +25, that way the people who yes, did work their asses off to get all that amazing gear still have every right to feel just as proud and confident in their parties as they did before while still allowing the rest of us to participate to the best we can in the groups also.

Fact being unless you bought the gil for your gear, and I know leggy didn't you should look better than everyone else out there because you worked a hell of a lot harder than everyone else to be like that. If you want to get pissed at people for being more dedicated than you are well you should probably stop playing because I know all of us are guilty of doing this. I'm that level 10 Taru with dual astrals and hell, I did my bcnm20 to get them! (and thanks to palum ^^), you're more than capable of making 20 mil in gil, the only thing that's stopping you is wanting it that badly and others shouldn't be punished because they did.

 

[Mattaru]

I think iI'm guilty of this as well, but seriously, these posts are so full of conjecture that its wasted typing unless your fingers need the work out. If they become BC items or like the ENM items etc. one thing may possibly happen, but we don't know how they are going to do it, so its hard to dictate an outcome. Anyways, its a video game that gets updated, yet has an economy so of course its only natural that shit can happen. Whne you make a major change in an economy it has to be phased in/out to reduce the damage....that luxury isnt completely here in ffxi, the best you can do is hope more people do the ENM/BCNM type things to create a greater supply of an item so the price is adjusted into the market.

And btw it would be nice if someone responded to the fact that this doesnt hurt people with these items, it probably makes them richer. Unless PCC becomes like a Summerfest Moogle Quest.

 

[Parnnotthelegend]

Damn you SE!! Leaping Lizzy is how i make my money sometimes ;_;

Of course now i'm gonna have to hunt all of the monsters listed and get the rare/ex gear since i'm a damn collector...

Edit: W00T Page 10 is mine!

 

[Dowzer]

Hmmmmmmmmmm


Maybe I'll get to stop kicking myself in the ass....

...for selling PCC at a small price of 7.4 mil just over 6 months ago.






lol. Goddamnit.

 

[decidence]

I think people have the wrong idea about these rare items....

Put yourself in end game shoes and think how much you will care about this game if you dont have any rare expensive gear because there is no such thing anymore and everyone can run around with uber gear with not too much effort...

Players stay in the game to gain rare, expensive armor that only a small part of the community has, there is nothing else really to be proud of.

 

[Raesvelg]

Damn you SE!! Leaping Lizzy is how i make my money sometimes ;_;

Which is why the change is being made.

Let's be honest here: Thus far, this is all rampant speculation. We've got no idea how much more/less common the tradeable versions of the items are going to be, or how common the new drops will be either.

However.

I fail to understand the mentality that the rare/ex versions are somehow going to be "easier" to obtain. There will still be swarms of people mobbing the spawn points of these mobs for a good long while yet, the only difference is that the people involved will be the people that would otherwise be spending money on the items, rather than the people who insist on camping the same NM over and over again to make their gil.

And in addition, we don't know how what the new methods of attaining those items will be, how rare the drops will be, and how difficult the fight will be assuming that's what it is.

In other words, untwist your damn panties already. At absolute worst, people will now be able to get 5 friends and go do a run and snag an item that they can sell on the AH, and yes, in that case, PCC prices are going to absolutely PLUMMET. And I won't feel particularly bad for the people that insist that a dinky +10 ACC is worth 20 million gil. Alternately, you'll have a situation where the fight will either be incredibly hard and restrictive, or the drop rate will be obscenely low, and the items in question will either not drop in price (PCC) or possibly even go up (AR, EP and LB).

Though I have to say, I suspect that the BCNM/ENM that will drop these items won't be impossible, that you'll be able to get one if that's what you're looking for, and that the prices WILL drop as a result. SE tends to put more emphasis on group play over individual play as a general rule, and while the new NPC buddies are a significant departure (as are the new XP rules governing weaker enemies), I doubt that they'll change that all that much.

 

[vang]

this makes this a LOT more fair for everyone out there....

Please don't include me in your post Nifal by saying "everyone".

and how is any of this making it more "Fair" to you?