How does weapon delay translate into the actual time between

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billytibbetts

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swings? I just picked up my Mighty Sword and the idea that I could do the same damage as my Nagan (once a week) with a delay that's 36 less really appealed to me. What percentage haste would it take to have the Nagan swing as often as the Mighty Sword? (Nagan= 480, Mighty Sword= 444)?\

Thanks
 
Euphacent said:
100 = 1 second
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People believe it's 60 = 1 second.

Though it's pretty absurd in my opinion, as it no way takes me 5 seconds to attack.
 
Isn't there a base delay? Like if you were to use a weapon with 0 delay, you wouldn't be hitting non-stop (but almost)?

Thanks for posting
 
billytibbetts said:
Isn't there a base delay? Like if you were to use a weapon with 0 delay, you wouldn't be hitting non-stop (but almost)?

Thanks for posting
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There probably is, loosely based on a certain stat or combination of stats. This is pure theory but since h2h weapons say + x Delay not Delay: x it makes one wonder what the delay is being added to. Maybe theres just a natural h2h delay due to being able to use it without a weapon at all and the other weapons don't get factored into it. I'd like to see some hard evidence saying something like _____ decreases the delay because of _____ or just a hard equation of how long in seconds it takes to swing taking into account delay, haste/slow, natural delay, dual wield bonuses and such.
 
Would I be incorrect in assuming that something with a delay of 240 would swing twice as often as something with a delay of 480? If so something with a delay of 444 would swing 1.081 times as often as the weapon with a 480 delay, right?
 
Yes. Only Hand-to-hand has a different method of calculating delay, but for every other weapon, the lower the number, the faster it'd swing.
 
333 delay dual wielding 2 knives + bravo subligar + rapparee harness 4tw!!!!!

~nib

p.s. toss me a haste and i'll get 100% tp in 30 seconds ^.~ toss me haste + 2x bard haste songs and it'll be ALOT lower.. (not to mention my utsusemiNi recast would drop down to 25 seconds) ..wish more bards used haste songs <,<
 
60delay = 1 sec is the correct delay for melee weapons. 100 delay = 1 sec is for ranged weapons. Despite how slow that might seem to you, it is correct. It is easy to test (as I have done in the past). Go see how many swings you do in one minute, then see which correctly prediced the number attacks in 60 seconds. Be sure to not have on haste equipment as that changes the delay (obvious, but easy to forget).

To understand more and how haste changes it, read here.
toss me a haste and i'll get 100% tp in 30 seconds ^.~ toss me haste + 2x bard haste songs and it'll be ALOT lower
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No you won't unless you are a leprechan and get triple/double attack to go off at least 5-6 times in 30 seconds. You can read why here. Very lengthy discussion.

As for brd haste songs...the +accu and +attk results in more dmg than a slightly faster attack rate. That is why no brd wastes time using those songs.
 
actually i get 100% tp in 30 seconds all the time with haste on.. RELIC BOOTS 4TW!! (tripple attack +1)

i shoulda posted that earlier <,<

~nib

[Edit] i also wanted to note that, this is on IT mobs.. 100% tp in 30 seconds..
 
Did you even open the thread? Get a stopwatch, 30 seconds goes a lot faster than you think. I don't want to repeat everything that I already explained that thread, you can look at it yourself. I suggest you supply more than your opinion as an argument.
 
i dont need a stop watch.. i have SATA timer..

activate SATA, use DE.. watch SATA timer via CTRL+J.. and watch tp from top left of screen..

~nib

p.s. i dont believe this is uncommon for thiefs? is it? lol..

[Edit] also as far as supplying only my opinions.. IVE DONE IT.. maybe its only you who are giving the opinions? go test it.. get your thf tripple attack and watch your TP soar..
 
Ok, was hoping I wouldn't have to start repeat all this.
Rones said:
For a thf example, take the fastest dagger you want, let's say Beestinger with 150 delay. As Ruic has shown in his thread here and supported by many other forum members, 150 delay is the smallest you can get. Thus we work from the basic forumulea 60 delay = 1 sec. 150/60 = 2.5 secs delay between each attack. In 30 seconds that gives you time for 12 attacks. At 5 tp per hit, that's 60% tp max assuming 100% accu and no triple or double attacks. If you want to claim 4-5 extra attacks per 30 seconds from triple or double, that is fine because you still won't have 100tp and you are not going to have 100% accu against IT mobs.
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Now please explain to me where your problem is? Do you disagree with the delay formulea? The haste formuleas? Unless you can disprove one of them, what you are claiming is impossible to do one a regular basis (getting 6 triple attacks in 30 seconds one random time out of 3 months does not apply).
 
i can show you when i get on ffxi tonight.. however.. only on too weak or EP because i dont feel like dieing to an IT for you..

~nib
 
Well, I would get on to watch, but ffxi has decided my last two installs are bad. So I have to spend another 12-24 hours reinstalling and updating ffxi only to have the server have maintence again causing another corrupted update. If you are going to test it, I strongly recommend using a job combination that does not have thf or war. That way you can avoid having triple/double attacks going off for testing purposes and see how many attacks you do as a base amount for 30 seconds. It is important to rule out outside factors first.

However, unless you are planning on disproving 60 delay = 1 second, you will find that you do not attack fast enough even with a 150 delay weapon. To get 100 tp in 30 seconds from a 5 tp weapon, you will need 20 hits (or 10 with dual wield). However, as I already explained 150 delay = 1 attack every 2.5 seconds or 300 dual wield delay = attack every 5 seconds. Either way, in 30 seconds you will only get 12 attacks (60%tp) without triple or double attack. Getting 8 attacks (40%tp) in 30 seconds from triple and double attack is very uncommon. That's nearly doubling your attack rate which doesn't happen.

Also, what the mob cons doesn't matter in the slightest. What we are corcnered about is your attack rate and how many attacks you can over a set period of time as it is highly unreliable to try to count the time between individual attacks. So as long as the mob lives 1-2 mins, it is a good canidate (elementals work well).
 
Rones said:
Getting 8 attacks (40%tp) in 30 seconds from triple and double attack is very uncommon. That's nearly doubling your attack rate which doesn't happen.
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Not sure that it takes away from your point at all, but isn't it actually just a 67% increase? I could see that happening with some gear mods. Maybe not on IT, but ep-T with monk, I get double attack or kick attack fairly frequently. Maybe eating Tentacle sushi?
 
Rones said:
Ok, was hoping I wouldn't have to start repeat all this.
Rones said:
For a thf example, take the fastest dagger you want, let's say Beestinger with 150 delay. As Ruic has shown in his thread here and supported by many other forum members, 150 delay is the smallest you can get. Thus we work from the basic forumulea 60 delay = 1 sec. 150/60 = 2.5 secs delay between each attack. In 30 seconds that gives you time for 12 attacks. At 5 tp per hit, that's 60% tp max assuming 100% accu and no triple or double attacks. If you want to claim 4-5 extra attacks per 30 seconds from triple or double, that is fine because you still won't have 100tp and you are not going to have 100% accu against IT mobs.
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Now please explain to me where your problem is? Do you disagree with the delay formulea? The haste formuleas? Unless you can disprove one of them, what you are claiming is impossible to do one a regular basis (getting 6 triple attacks in 30 seconds one random time out of 3 months does not apply).
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You forgot dual wield. As I assume she is /nin, there is a loss in delay over the sum of both weapons. Nibble probably has Dual Wield II(-15%) which will significantly reduce delay and thats if she does not have any +dual wield equip(Suppanomimi or Sarashi Belt) which some people do. And from what I have seen, double and triple attack occur quite often without +double or triple attack so that might also have a huge part to do with why you disbelieve her. You also neglect the huge part of her statement which is she starts the 30 seconds at the begining of SATA and uses the WS Dancing Edge. A WS alone will give some TP plus this is a multi hit WS, so she gets quite a bit more than the standard 5%.
 
Lavi said:
You forgot dual wield. As I assume she is /nin, there is a loss in delay over the sum of both weapons. Nibble probably has Dual Wield II(-15%) which will significantly reduce delay and thats if she does not have any +dual wield equip(Suppanomimi or Sarashi Belt) which some people do. And from what I have seen, double and triple attack occur quite often without +double or triple attack so that might also have a huge part to do with why you disbelieve her. You also neglect the huge part of her statement which is she starts the 30 seconds at the begining of SATA and uses the WS Dancing Edge. A WS alone will give some TP plus this is a multi hit WS, so she gets quite a bit more than the standard 5%.
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All ready explained. Once you hit the breakneck delay(150 single, 300 dual weild) you cannot get any faster.
 
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