How To Make a Good Party: A compilation of notes...

decidence

decidence

Genkai Conqueror
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Firestreak posted something similiar to this I recall.. if he can digup the thread and repost it, that would be cool.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that Im frustrated at the parties Im getting lately that have really bad setups.

When you go out to EXP the goal is the get as much XP / Hour as possible. Personally I lose interest in a party if its getting much less then 5k /hr, some people have lower expectations then that, but for someone thats on his third job through the high 60's now, I really dont wanna diddle daddle with a slow XP/Hr PT.

I have made pretty much every PT Ive been in from Lv25-65+ so far on my current job and I would have to say that out of all the PT's Ive made, few have gotten less then 6k/hr. These are the steps I take when assembling a Party, from the beginning to the end.

1. Start messaging the big jobs first (this is the jobs that have most influence on XP/hr). So RNG, BLM, NIN, BRD... and tell them your starting a party, what you plan to set it up like and if they would be interested in joining when they are needed. Give them a timeframe and keep them updated.

2. Dont limit yourself to the people with invite flags up, I find most my PT members are people that dont have flags up but will party with you if you have a good setup in mind.

3. When you message someone for a party make sure to tell them the jobs you have and what level range the PT will be. My common message looks like this "<Party> <Interest>? LV65-67 -- NIN, RNG, RNG, RNG, WHM, BRD"

4. Dont invite jobs that dont skillchain well with eachother! This is like shooting yourself in the foot right off the bat.

5. If using a NIN tank, you need melee damage > blm damage. I played BLM and Im playing NIN now, I know that as a BLM I hated NIN tanks because I couldn't go all out as much as I could with a PLD, and limiting a BLM's damage is just gimping your XP/Hr. And THF's are NOT required to have an effective NIN tank... The only time you need a THF for your NIN to tank decently is if you have 1 or more BLM's, and as we discussed, BLM's are not 100% effective in NIN tanked PT's.

6. Invite melee last! Unless they are a RNG (only melee job I will invite before the essentials) you should find your tank first and build around him! If you cant find a tank first then make sure you either have NIN or PLD in mind before inviting anyone else to the PT.

7. A NIN tank does not require WHM and RDM in the same PT. However a WHM will struggle more then a RDM without the other partner. Good WHM's will have Juice and/or Vermillion/Noble to counter this side affect of not having refresh.

As a NIN my Ideal PT would be NIN, WHM, BRD, RNG, RNG, RNG. Of course you will say "Its impossible to get 3 RNG's most of the time". But this is just my ideal PT, what Im basically saying is I want 3 High Damage Melee with me that will drive the effectiveness of our XP/HR. In some areas 3 MNKs will do the job, or a combination of RNG's, and MNKs. RNG's and DRK (Spinning Slash) also is very effective.

8. A PLD tanked party is more mage driven then melee. PLD's need refresh, so a BRD or RDM is almost required to have an effective PLD PT. PLD's can argue they dont need refresh, but its a simple fact that they do... because if they for some reason DONT need to use MP to keep hate then either their not keeping hate or the PT is lacking so much damage that the PLD isn't losing it.

I have never played PLD but I can assume that the ideal PT for them would be as such... PLD, WHM, BRD or RDM, BLM, RNG, MNK or THF or DRK. This allows for a good skillchain, healing support and refresh.

9. Make sure to ask everyone before they join how long they can stay for, and what areas they dont have unlocked/available yet. This not only gives you an idea when to look for replacement but also makes it hard for a player to ditch you if the PT isn't going so well at a certain point and his time isn't up yet.

10. When the PT needs a replacement, make sure there is over 1.5hrs left of XPing once the person gets to the PT, there is no sense getting a replacement only to piss him off by disbanding in less then an hour. Also dont pickup any ole' replacement, wait for a job that will mesh well with the PT's current setup.

11. BEFORE LEAVING JEUNO, make sure to checkout ALL possible areas to XP in and dont overcrowd areas! Scout places out before you leave and choose the place that is least crowded that will still give good potential.

12. After the Party make sure to do some reconaissance with the members, ask them when they are usually online (if you liked PTing with them), and suggest setting up a PT the next day around a certain time... this will cut down on a lot of the time setting up parties day to day. Statics are not required, but having a few people that are consistently on around the same time that PT well together makes things easier on you.

Melee's that dont LV3 Skillchain with eachother and are good indicators that your PT isn't gonna be that good if their in the same PT as eachother:
MNK and THF (Howling First > Dancing Edge is all you have to work with)
DRK and THF (Shark Bite > Cross Reaper does this even work?)
RNG and DRG (No Viable SC)
RNG and WAR (Arching Arrow > Steel Cyclone is alright I guess...)
Feel free to add... those are the ones that stick out in my mind.

And how about all the jobs I didn't mention? When are they at their most effective?

WAR: A very good WAR can dish out damage and is a good tank but is not the best at either, thus putting this job as a good 3rd Melee in a NIN tanked PT.

BST: Stick to soloing... when BST's start PTing they are like gimped WAR's.

SAM: I have a lot of respect for SAM's and I enjoy PTing with them... if their good. A good SAM that is smart and sets up multiple skillchains and macro's who organizes the other 2 Melee's in the PT can make for fast XP. A SAM/RNG can be devastating with the right equipment and spamming Sidewinder. SAM's are also VERY effective when partied with another SAM, as they can time their meditate to do 2 SC's almost every 2nd-3rd fight.

SMN: Summoners are the pinnacle of support. A very good substitute for a WHM and in the higher levels they are even preffered. Unfortunately they do not have Haste which can burn a NIN tanked PT if you dont partner them with a RDM.


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In Summary: Scout out your members before inviting people, communicate a lot and be organized. Make sure people know your setting up a party, and give them the when, where and how! Dont chince out on the setup, and get the people together that work best, and will give you the optimal chance for the best XP/Hr possible.

If you dont care about XP/Hr and can only logon for a couple hours at time because you dont care that much about the game and yadda yadda yadda... LET PEOPLE KNOW THIS BEFORE YOU INVITE THEM, and expect that I will say NO!

And really.. tricking people to joining your party doesn't help, if its gonna be a shitty, rushed assembly party, tell people its gonna be shit, cuz they they wont get pissed off and leave and never join a PT with you again like I have many times.
 
My advice would be to not take invites at all if you're going to do nothing but complain for an hour and a half that 5.5k an hour is terrible when you have us camped in the middle of linking dhalmels, that the levels are screwed up, the chain 5's are slow, that you only see two dhalmel, and that we're all for the most part not fit to wipe your shoes because we're not multiple rangers, then leave on a moment's notice when a member was at 4000 to level 70.

But that's just me.
 
Good post for those that don't pay attention to certain to these things you mentioned. I'll just add a few things about jobs and optimal setups.

-You covered this one somewhat in the smn section but it probably should've been given its own section. Ninja tanks most definitely should have a rdm or whm so they can have their version of haste, it's absolutely needed.

-A pld will be fine with a brd or rdm, but as a general rule of thumb, it's easier to just get rdms for pld parties, and brds for ninja parties. Brd in pld party requires | DD DD <ENEMY> Pld Mage Mage Brd | it can be done ok, but may be a pain for parties with thf and /thf post 60. Unless you use a cannon party of blms such as blm,blm,blm,blm,brd,pld then it's a very different situation.

-A ninja is going to benefit alot less from a rdm. First of all refresh has no use for a nin obviously, and one of rdms other functions is enfeebling, slow,para especially, yet ninja can handle these himself just as well and gain hate for it. Rdms are best used as healers in ninja parties, infact in many ways they outperform whms as healers with ninja tanks, unless stona or high lvl curagas are needed, or something whm exclusive of that nature.

-Ninjas simply gain more from brds than rdms. Brd standard attack/acc mix really helps a ninja chip in with the damage, as well as hold hate. But I'd like to note something note as obvious to everyone here. Bards with their elegy songs and the horn +1 by far the best at the slow enfeeble in the game. Not even taking the 60 slow ( carnage elegy ), bard has the best slow in the game, and this REALLY helps a ninja tank out. Carnage elegy with horn+1(which is only 20k or so I might add) is so powerful, a war/nin could tank rather well with it.

If you have a thief in the party optimal setup to me is the following

Ninja
Thief/
Ranger/
Bard/
Redmage/ or Whitemage/ depending on enemy type
Blackmage/

Thieves perform best in very unoriginal parties, it's how we work. Since you can have any type of tank work well with a thief, thief is unique in that you build much of the party around the thief when working toward a good setup. Thieves belong in parties only inwhich they end the SC or one of them, and since hate is not even a thought with thieves, you might as well get the most cannon like jobs you can find since you can use them and not hold back obviously.

Here is the range we can work well in SC with other jobs

Samurai -3-65 and then 71-75, we can't make lvl 3 SC 66-70 until we get our 71 WSs, then we can make dark or light again, and before 66, it's distortion, and scission is a nice option in the lower 60s with our lvl 200 WSs against tomoras.

Dragoon- 3-75, we make distorition the entire game, and at 66 we can make light SCs. We can't ever make dark together though.

Ranger-3-75-Same deal as Dragoon

Darkknight- If drk has greatsword we can sc a worthwhile SC 12-59
-Drk with scythe 49-65 we can do ok, we work rather well 49-59 though, but there are better options. At 71 we can make lvl 3 dark SCs together, but having 2 spike damage dealers normally doesn't lead to as good xp as does having a spike damage job( drk or thf) and a damage over time job matched with it that opens good SCs for that spike damage job (drg,rng)

Warrior-Assuming they're using their prime weapons axe and GAX, our options suck until 66 when we can make lvl 3 light SC with their 1handed axe. At 71 I believe we can make lvl 3 dark with GAX, although this option is meh.

Monk-Backhand blow--->viper bite is an ok option unless you're fighting beetles since it's scission. 60-65 we're very very good together though with dancing edge--->Howling fist. I partied with a monk named cami once, mnk/war, 300-500 Howling fist followed by my Dancing edges, and his good damage over time, good times.

Once level 3 light SCs come into play, and you have a drg or rng, I'd really consider a thief since they'll keep up in to with these jobs. Between their barrages, acc up traits, and jumps, you'll need more than just good acc to keep up properly in tp with good players in these jobs.

-An alternate to nin and pld tanking told to me by war/nin friends

Grab two war/nin and have them act as damage dealers that exchange hate and use each others shadows. Much like 2 ninjas tanks one mob pre Utsusemi: Ni. So one uses 6 shadows, the other vokes uses 6 shadows, etc. If kept hasted the duo would last for awhile easily before they'd take any hits. So each would be going for mostly damage over time, while blinking half the hits.

-Since there are 2 vokers, a hate controller is not needed.

-Brds fit very well into this setup, allowing the war/nin to fully exploit their damage of time ability.

-The setup is meant to be based around damage over time, not SCs. Therefore you're better off making the allout melee DD a samurai,monk, or ranger. Or you could not get a blm, and get 2 compatible(sp) DD melee. Something along the lines of a drg-drk duo is pretty good here. Otherwise you can get 2 great damage over time jobs such as 2 monks,rangers, or dragoons who wouldn't pull hate as likely since their damage is divided, therefore you'd have 4 damage over time jobs, and a SC wouldn't be as needed.




























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Ninja parties are more suited for a Thief then Paladin parties. Also, the part about a White Mage not needing a Red Mage is utter stupidity. A Red Mage doesn't need a White Mage. You got it backwards.

Also, you listed NO consideration for the type of mob your group is fighting. Some melee do better on mobs of a certain type then others, and this goes beyond Monks do good on Bones.

For example, a prime party for taking down bats:

Nin/War
Thf/Nin
Rng/Nin
Rdm/Blm
Blm/Whm
Smn/Whm

You have a party that compliments itself through and through here, and is very effective for taking down the mob they are hunting. You have absolutely everything a good party needs.
 
hmmm.....
decidence seems anti-thief........

shame on you :P


as far as skillchaining can go though...... Shark Bite will Light with only drg rng war...... im gonna measure them on a scale for everyone to see^^

Rng - Great... Arching Arrow/heavy shot is a nice strong move that might be able to pull hate. Most have utsu and will be forced to be the puller since there's likely no 2nd voke in the party.
War - Good... Mistral Axe is fun. From what i see behind the tank, this axe flies around my head. Gotta wonder how my ears are still there. War has a few tricks to pull hate as well that can make Sataing the tank nice and easy.
Drg - errr.... ok tiltawhirl poke WS does decent dmg i guess. But then im left confused. Sata the Drg and let him get eaten with his low defense? If he pulls initial hate thats kinda nasty too. Drg as first voke is sorta blah as well. Mages love to pull hate after curing a near dead drg which really mess up my sata. Alot of Drgs spam jumps and never really do it after i sata them.
Drgs really need some sorta defensive move. Smn with stoneskinga maybe?? Drg/nin sorta gimps their dmg a bit, but for that extra utsu ability would it be worth it??? Need a drg to answer that.
 
Whoops messed that post up with extra space, my bad...Anyway onto the next thing I want to say.

and that we're all for the most part not fit to wipe your shoes because we're not multiple rangers
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I gotta agree with that, those that can't make 6k/hr parties without resorting to multiple rng-blm parties are either not coming across the better melees or are just too lazy to learn other mechnics of a successful party. I'm not doubting the potienal of cannon parties, I know what they can do...However it's possible to hit those big xp/hr numbers in traditional parties just as well. I've experienced as high as 8k/hr in a tradiational setups.

As a thief I'm forced into the original setup of parties, the job just isn't equipped to be a cannon job. Although I've played in cannon parties as my blm and rng at lower levels, and I loved it, and they were also probably near 8k/hr.

I'm not trying to denounce either setup since both have their place in this game and both ahve the potienal of xp/hr and fun. I'm trying to denounce stubbern people that think only X type of party has the ability to be good. The reason being it's these exact same types of people you'll find saying things such as" X job sucks!" and "I don't like X job in my party" and they have a narrow view of the game and see only what they want to see. Quite frankly these people can kiss my ass, and don't bother me when you need TH2 for something.

--More about thief I just remembered--

It's clear you need a melee that can open the proper SC for thief, but to exploit this to its fullest, you /need/can use a blm for 2 major reasons.

-Blm has huge MBs that thief allows a blm to exploit, the SC a thief and the other melee make will probably take a huge chuck of, but a blm is needed to finish the job, this is even more critical on chain 5 mobs.

-The fact blm can make these huge MBs and not pull hate due to a thf's or /thf's(post 60) presenence. Unlike sidewinder--->sidewinder--->Waterga II Mb, hate might be a bit bouncey after that, just a hunch.

It's possible to have good parties with a thf/ in it without a blm though.

I had this one not long ago and it worked pretty well.

nin/war
thf/war
war/nin
mnk/war
whm/blm
rdm/blm

I subbed war by the way because the orignal party had some loser mnk/thf in it, and he sucked. So tp wasn't a concern, once the mnk/war replacement came who rocked by the way, I wished I went /nin or /sam by that point. But I still managed to keep up in tp with this mnk who had about 10 mil in gear. Moving on, our SC was howling fist---> Dancing edge onto ninja at the start of about 95% of the fights.

The ninja and war/nin did blade jin--->Rampage every other fight or so with about 300% tp. We SC'd every battle bsaiclly, but no matter what, we all timed it so we'd do both major SCs during the chain 5 enemy, that got us chain 5 pretty consistantly unless we got screwed over by the crawler doing cacoon during our SCs.

So in a nutshell, if you have a ninja tank and you have a thief in the party, it's possible to be a party of high quality without a blm in it by choosing the right melee DDs.
 
Black Mages are hardly the only job in the game that can burst. Red Mages can and will do a pretty nice job of it as well. I don't know how well Summoners do at different levels, as I get parties with them sporatically.

They do a helluva nice job throught the late twenties at least.
 
A skilled SMN can pop off 600-ish damage MBs after level 60, when they learn level 4 elemental magic. There's two catches, though. First, it costs MP, and since they're the main healer, it might not be a good thing. Second, it's a blood pact, so you need to make sure the timer is up and the SMN can't buff anyone for a minute after that. Still, it's pretty useful, and the fact that the SMN only gets hate for summoning the avatar and giving the command helps (they get almost no hate from it, in other words).

Of course, how much damage they can do depends on the element of the MB vs the mob's element. Using Blizzard 4 on Undead (strong vs ice, I believe) isn't as good of an idea as using Fire 4 on them (weak to fire, I think). And the SMN's summoning skill might impact things a bit, but it's debatable what that's actually good for.
 
Just remember that while SMN can do some good damage once in a while, they're not good for consistent damage. Usually a SMN just replaces a WHM. But they do a pretty danged good job of being main healer, and they can do a lot of things WHM can't (such as open skillchians, or buff the party).
 
Ok a few things I want to input for plds

-For purposes of this guide I refer to tanks and close range DD as melee, and support, healers, and black mages as just mages.

-Pld tanks are very mage reliant, to form an effective pld party you need a balance between melee and mages. 3 melee and 3 mages are the ideal setup if you are going to use a pld. Rdm prefered over brd because of the refresh during battle is easier.

-There are a few combinations that do not work though. You do not want to pit a pld, thf, and brd (if there is no rdm) in the same party because there is a lot of moving around and it can be difficult for brd's to get there songs off with sata going on. I say this because my friend Stouter used to have a lot of complaints about "dancing paladins" when using his brd. Yes a good brd can do it but there is still too much chaos.

-One exception to the above is pt's that I have had that have been very effective. pld, rng, thf, blm, rdm, and brd was one pt that could get fast chain #5's. Usually in this case I would prefer a smn because of the more abundant mp and they can share healing with the rdm. This is what I would call a skill setup though because we have the rng pulling, the thf doing speed sata at the start, smn buffing/healing, the rdm refreshing/healing/enfeebling, and the blm... well doing what blm's do best while throwing a couple cures here and there just in case. This is my favorite setup but it does require a degree of skill to pull off and it is one of the fastest setups I've used.

-Never take out the consideration of cannon pt's, Pld's people like to fall back on for these but 5 blm, brd works just as well in many cases. there are also rng cannons wich are good fun as well.

-A good thing to focus on with Pld tanks is the Magic bursting. This is very important when deciding what to use in your setup. Take into mind the mob that you will be fighting and its elemental weaknesses. Then think of what skillchain to put together to take advantage of the weakness. AM bursting is ok but in the end I would only use it for the freeze on crabs during the 50-56 levels because it can be very effective. Be carefull you arent doing too much damage though. If you have the mob down too much health it is much more efficient to MB blizzard than freeze at this point. Communication is key. Take into consideration your downtime for this though, if you are having too much downtime due to AM bursting then forget about it.

-Because pld's specialize in stacking hate and defense this gives room for blm's to do there most (as stated in previous posts) damage. That is why it is important to have 3 mages with a pld, you can use blm's to their upmost effectiveness and it can somewhat offset the slow xp that can be caused from the main healers use of mp keeping the pld alive. I love to have rng, blm in my party but I will settle for anything that can make the appropriate skillchain for the blm to MB off of.

-Whenever I get a pt invite or setup a pt I look for blm and rdm first and foremost. whm is ok especially if you happen to die but dont look down upon the smn as a choice. I wouldnt usually think to ask a smn to be main healer howerver, I would usually ask the rdm and smn to share the task. If the rdm feels that it is too much to do than the smn can take over a little more of the healing task.

-When I go lfg It is a good Idea to post in search comments what you are @exp E.G. @6000/18800. I also place what nationalities I like to play with JP/NA/EU, this is usually standard but I still use it most of the time. Because I can speak japanese to an extent I place romaji in my next collom E.G. Chotto Nihongo Wakarimasu is a standard phrase. Next you can place any info you want parties to know about your equipment. This is usually an important thing to put into search comments because it can make or break the decision of experienced leaders to invite you. I usually just place some stupid friendly drawing like m(¯_¯)m or somthing because as a pld, I dont really have any gear that costs over 1m yet. I use mostly items that give VIT for exp pt's. My vit atm is +27 with food (Shallops Tropicale).

-Tanks are always in high demand but becarefull when you are invited. My favorite is always when I get invites from people with gimped subjobs or equipment. I always give them the benifit of the doubt by asking what jobs they have in their pt. I then say (no thanks) (I'm sorry). This is when I find out most of the time that the people lack manners and are most probably nubs. Someone with manners will usually send out an /t ok, or /t (understood). What I get that I find funny are (Huh!?) or wtf why not? For me this is an instant flag and I will NEVER join a pt that does this.

-Final Note: this is advice and is from my personal experience. I dont pretend to know everything in the game and I, like any human, make mistakes and have probably done so in the above. I would also like to say that I'm notorious for how picky I am with pt's because I hate getting stuck in the slow pt's. The slogan "any exp is good exp" is a load of bullshit and I do not follow by it. My slogan is "I play for fun and fast effective parties are fun" ^^ Good luck to you all.
 
A couple things to add.

You want your tank to be the highest lvl in your party, this allows for better hate control. Melee should be at least the same level, if not one level lower.

When you put big damage DD's with a tank who is lower, you are going to see hate everywhere. On the reverse, if the melee is too low, then you will see alot of swing and miss.

As long as you follow that, mages can fit anywhere in there.

My favorite job to party with as DRK is ranger, i can open up with Guillotine>>>Sidewinder nice size Fragmentation for the BLM to burst. Surprisingly in an XP party the other day with one, i wasn't completely blown away with TP as i used to be before i had the great acc gear i have now, but he was on me by about 20-40 TP

Now that my GS is leveled, I enjoyed a party with a MNK Howling Fist>>>>Sickle Moon. It is a very worthy WS as with no Souleater i was pushing in the 300-500 range, with Souleater 700-1k.

When a PLD levels with a THF/melee combo, he has to lighten up on his hate. I see it too many times where the PLD spams his hate moves, and when it is time to SC i'm there looking like a fool not being able to turn the mob, thus leading to weak(by comparrison) DE.

Drew and I had a great experience with a NIN named Keep i believe who could adjust hate so finely I was personally amazed. He was able to give me hate at the begining of an SC and keep hate away from me when i was going nuts solo. except after i leveled and i Souleater>Last Resort>berserk>Guillotined the last mob, yes i died and we had to get another 300xp for me lol, but they asked me to do it :p

With RNG my obvious favorite has been RNGx3, BRD, RDM, tank. I haven't really had much a preference either way between NIN or PLD, this being because fights don't last too long when someone is WS/Barrage/WS every fight.

RDM I love in these parties when there is a PLD because the PLD can be anywhere and get his refresh which allows for less clutzing around trying to set up right. Also allows BRD to put Vivacious Etude which does wonders.

Switching a 66+ DRK into these parties works really well with Arching arrow to Spinning Slash making a real nice light SC. Recently joined a static where we have a THF there, another nice Light SC, although i think that the DRK's SC is stronger. Major problem would be if the DRK doesn't have the top notch equipment, he's won't be able to keep up with TP.
 
Peregrine said:
My advice would be to not take invites at all if you're going to do nothing but complain for an hour and a half that 5.5k an hour is terrible when you have us camped in the middle of linking dhalmels, that the levels are screwed up, the chain 5's are slow, that you only see two dhalmel, and that we're all for the most part not fit to wipe your shoes because we're not multiple rangers, then leave on a moment's notice when a member was at 4000 to level 70.

But that's just me.
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5.5k/hr... what are you smoking? I used 3 foods, thats 1.5hrs right there. I was 9k into my level when we started and I left 14.8k in. You do the math, or maybe I should since you fucked that up in the first place. The camp you took us too sucked, and Damien agreed... for the first 30mins in the camp I took us too we got 2.2k XP which would of at least gave us almost 4.5k per hour if we kept it up. Remember when I made that comment about us slowing down after the first 30mins, I pay attention to XP/HR more then anyone. Sure I made a comment saying I PT with RNG's most the time... big deal, are you threatened by this? 4000xp woulda been potentially another hour of that boredom and like I said, I had a Mothers Day dinner to prepare for and gave 20-25mins warning!

Peregrine, your theories are unjust, your skills are below average and your knowledge of the game is lackluster, you have no weight to throw in this argument and hearing seeing your retort is just is another annoyance. Now make like Elemmire and scat.
 
Anderithe said:
Also, you listed NO consideration for the type of mob your group is fighting. Some melee do better on mobs of a certain type then others, and this goes beyond Monks do good on Bones.
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Ive had several PT's without refresh at all where the WHM had no problem with MP... usually they have excess MP and use it on Divine magic.


Drewtaru said:
hmmm.....
decidence seems anti-thief........
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Considering I have only come across 1, maybe 2 THF's in XP PT's to impress me... Im a firm believer that there is better out there then THF when forming a PT.



Drewtaru said:
A couple things to add.

You want your tank to be the highest lvl in your party, this allows for better hate control. Melee should be at least the same level, if not one level lower.

When you put big damage DD's with a tank who is lower, you are going to see hate everywhere. On the reverse, if the melee is too low, then you will see alot of swing and miss.
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Good Addition, I forgot about that one but it is also very crucial when making a party.
 
Anderithe said:
Ninja parties are more suited for a Thief then Paladin parties. Also, the part about a White Mage not needing a Red Mage is utter stupidity. A Red Mage doesn't need a White Mage. You got it backwards.

Also, you listed NO consideration for the type of mob your group is fighting. Some melee do better on mobs of a certain type then others, and this goes beyond Monks do good on Bones.
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First off, a lot of RDM's don't like to be main healer. WHM's are the best healers in the game, but RDM can be a good substitute in some parties but only if they're RDM/WHM.

Second, he did make mention of certain jobs doing well in some areas.
Decidence said:
what Im basically saying is I want 3 High Damage Melee with me that will drive the effectiveness of our XP/HR. In some areas 3 MNKs will do the job, or a combination of RNG's, and MNKs. RNG's and DRK (Spinning Slash) also is very effective.
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He simply said that he wanted some heavy DD, and said that monks work really well in some areas, covering bone parties.

Although I don't reall agree with that 5k/hr minimum thing, but that's mainly because I haven't had very many of those. The vast majority of the parties that I have had were 3-3.5k/hr, but I never got invited to cannons, so I never really got to experience that.
 
The problem I find is finding a way to bow out of a party gracefully (or semi-gracefully) when things just aren't going your way. I'd love to get into constant 6,7,8k+/hr parties but the fact of the matter is those normally require setus wherein a MNK is simply not welcome due to lack of spike damage capacity. You put us in a VT-low IT group (i.e. Valley of Sorrows at 61) and we're going to give you as much XP and the puller can bring in, but when people look for the 250-300+/kill fights they're looking RNG and not MNK.

Got off on a rant there, sorry.

Anyway, when a party is just mind-bendingly slow (2.5k/hr or less) I find it really hard a lot of the time to just up and leave because:

1) If I make up an excuse and put my flag up 10 minutes later, I'm a liar.
2) If I vocalize about how bad the XP is or how someone isn't doing their job, I'm an elitist and a prick and people tell their LS's that instead of "Well, I was a bad player and I kept my group from good XP, that's why he left."
3) If I pull my cord and hardline D/C, that puts the party at risk and also makes you look like an asshole (even if the d/c is legit, people will insist that it wasn't.)

So how do you handle getting out of an obviously bad party? I could really use some suggestions since the quailty of player at 60+ was a far cry from what I thought it would be.
 
Because Meeze said it I'll have to add my two cents... Paladins who go overboard on hate can be very bad with a SATA added.

Sometimes it's good for hate to move, and some Paladins just don't get that. I would like to add though, in the case of setting up SATA with an initial vokethe Paladin can get away with an initial Flash.

This is a VERY early start to a Paladin's hate threshold that allows them to quickly grab and lock on hate like no one's business. It also saves the initial voke any stress they may incur if they don't have Utsusemi available to them.
 
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