i <3 Delsus

Meh, Blazn doesnt really bother me. He's actually mildly amusing. I mean the stuff he blabs on about are so outlandish you can't help but chuckle. If you ban him, you'd have to ban the other people who "are not talk gooders" also.


House: "Idiots are fun. No wonder every village wants one."
 
CmdrFly wins the thread. The mods are going to be getting together either tonight or tomorrow to discuss a lot of the rules that we have now, and to make a lot of things clearer. The grey areas suck, and we need to get rid of them.
 
Roofie got banned when he began posting lots of racist garbage - it was the straw that broke the camel's back, as noone had really been banned yet. It took a lot of work to make it happen.

Colbwa got banned after tons of harrassment and a billion sockpuppets. He got more second chances than anyone rightly deserved. Took forever to finally take a stand against this guy.

Shintroy was just a really cheap Colbwa imitation and got banned for much less, but the same sort of thing.

Now we're banning people with bad grammar who lie. Really, when Blazn makes some outlandish claim, who's being mislead? Is Meeze being tricked? Perigrine? Me? We're all vets here. FFXI doesn't have many newbs at all anymore, and we have even less. Noone here will be fooled by any deception involving technology (the IP stuff) or FFXI. Anyway, it's getting easier and easier to successfully hold a town-square banning session. Our standards for what merits a voteoff are getting lower and lower each time. The "Slippery Slope" argument is a fallacy, I know, but it seems to be in effect here.

By this point I support a Blazn banning on the current stuff like sockpuppets and threats and whatnot, but I don't think this thread should've gone that direction to start. Who will we ban next? Pretty soon, even someone like Sabia will be a target of the QCDN hoard.
 
Miros said:
The grey areas suck, and we need to get rid of them.
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That wasn't really my ultimatum, in many cases it's a damn good thing to have grey areas and leave some decision-making power in the hands of the mods and/or the people. Sorry to wrenchify my previous statement.

I was thinking moreso of a clarification along the lines of:

when there is a grey area, this and this will happen and you'll fucking love us for it

something to that effect. By the by Delsus shows as online right now, but that may be an old login from another computer that was logged in before the ban,
 
Pompidou said:
Roofie got banned when he began posting lots of racist garbage - it was the straw that broke the camel's back, as noone had really been banned yet. It took a lot of work to make it happen.

Colbwa got banned after tons of harrassment and a billion sockpuppets. He got more second chances than anyone rightly deserved. Took forever to finally take a stand against this guy.

Shintroy was just a really cheap Colbwa imitation and got banned for much less, but the same sort of thing.

Now we're banning people with bad grammar who lie. Really, when Blazn makes some outlandish claim, who's being mislead? Is Meeze being tricked? Perigrine? Me? We're all vets here. FFXI doesn't have many newbs at all anymore, and we have even less. Noone here will be fooled by any deception involving technology (the IP stuff) or FFXI. Anyway, it's getting easier and easier to successfully hold a town-square banning session. Our standards for what merits a voteoff are getting lower and lower each time. The "Slippery Slope" argument is a fallacy, I know, but it seems to be in effect here.

By this point I support a Blazn banning on the current stuff like sockpuppets and threats and whatnot, but I don't think this thread should've gone that direction to start. Who will we ban next? Pretty soon, even someone like Sabia will be a target of the QCDN hoard.
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I think you're taking this a little too far. I wasn't going to ban Blazn on the fact that people don't like him, that's not fair. This thread was more just a post for people to get stuff out, and if they happened to show me a good post where it violated the rules, then I would take appropriate action. He was banned because of the threats against QCDN he made. I'm giving him a week to cool down. When that week is up, he'll be back if there's no valid reason to ban him. I don't think that's harsh at all.
 
CmdrFly said:
That wasn't really my ultimatum, in many cases it's a damn good thing to have grey areas and leave some decision-making power in the hands of the mods and/or the people. Sorry to wrenchify my previous statement.

I was thinking moreso of a clarification along the lines of:

when there is a grey area, this and this will happen and you'll fucking love us for it

something to that effect. By the by Delsus shows as online right now, but that may be an old login from another computer that was logged in before the ban,
Click to expand...

I guess I'm just getting annoyed (not with you guys or qcdn) at the fact that people are saying that the mods can't do their job right, or that they are picking favourites, etc, etc. With the flameboard back, it's made modding kinda difficult cause if we mod the way *I* want to, we'll be nazis, but then some people would be happy...it's confusing. But we're going to try to make things easier for everyone.
 
Pompidou said:
Now we're banning people with bad grammar who lie. Really, when Blazn makes some outlandish claim, who's being mislead?
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We're not all veterans here. He may be misleading newer players who don't know about his past or certain things in-game. It's not just one lie either, it's repeated lies over several months. We don't know what the next lie will be nor the ramifications of it to the uneducated readers.

Granted, this is a small crowd to try and protect. But it will please the vets as well as protect the freshmen.

Pompidou said:
Our standards for what merits a voteoff are getting lower and lower each time. The "Slippery Slope" argument is a fallacy, I know, but it seems to be in effect here.
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Definitely. At times, QCDN is a monarchy while at other times it's a democracy. I like the dynamic power of this. While it may be difficult to determine when a person is right or wrong according to the rules, it's pretty obvious to the poster when they're doing/saying something they shouldn't.

Pompidou said:
Who will we ban next? Pretty soon, even someone like Sabia will be a target of the QCDN hoard.
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If Sabia, myself, or you started doing the things Blazirelsustruck did (and still does), I'd expect the same justice regardless of the username stricken asunder.

That was horrible use of 'stricken asunder' but I just love saying that, I had to take the opportunity.
 
Miros said:
I guess I'm just getting annoyed (not with you guys or qcdn) at the fact that people are saying that the mods can't do their job right, or that they are picking favourites, etc, etc. With the flameboard back, it's made modding kinda difficult cause if we mod the way *I* want to, we'll be nazis, but then some people would be happy...it's confusing. But we're going to try to make things easier for everyone.
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People will always bitch, I've made unfair complaints myself. Your (and I mean you specifically) modding techniques and ideals are on a different level than some of the other mods. This isn't a bad thing by any means; diversity like this helps to assure that the broad ends of the community are going to be tended to at some point or another.

I've questioned some mod actions lately but again, not everyone will be satisfied. But overall I think you've all done your job whether I liked it or not. I'm not trying to brownnose here either (do enough of that at home trying to get my meat wet), but you mods don't get the credit you deserve and likely never will - you're like Customer Service Representatives basically, with a little more power.
 
Anyway, what happens happens. A week ban is fair. At this point, a permaban wouldn't be uncalled for. I guess I just disagree with democratic forum justice. Make rules, select a staff, and only allow the staff to discipline, and only based on the rules - that's what I think is the right way to do things. I can see the logic in wanting to get rid of people who dance around the rules causing trouble nonetheless, but I think it should be handled by amending the rules to include their sort of troublemaking and giving them a chance to break the new rules before any punishments are handed out.
 
I don't want to have a veritable book of rules to read through. Maybe it's just personal preference. But I'd rather leave the window of opportunity for mods to make some decisions on their own.

There's a whole bunch of them, I'm sure they collaborate before making any rash judgements. So I wouldn't call their decisions one-sided (if they do indeed collaborate).

I think this is a conflict of personal taste. You like the by-the-book ruling where I prefer some leeway. They'll make the choice on which methodology to adopt.
 
Vandoura said:
Wow, Meeze you really loved to create enemy on Qcdn. Everyone type differently, not everyone perfect at their typing skill if you don't like sloppy english typer, you got few opinion to take:

1) Put me or Hellstorm on Ignore list
2) GTFO of this fourm, and go to the Forum where 100% of the members type professionally and grammer free environment.
3) If you bitch about the "english language butchered" why don't you just create a Flameboard topic about people with poor english typing skill just gtfo or something, since you always whin about it.
4) Ask Reeve to IP Ban all "english language butchered" if you feel we're not welcome here
5) Don't be an ass and point and name people so you can make yourself feel smarter that you typing better then anyone


No one cares about their grammar and spelling if they understand what they're trying to say.

People can post what ever they want as long is properly and in a right place to put them, um.. i think this will be call freedom of speech (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/06.html#1), and also obeying Reeve's fourm guide rules, i don't see anything about "No idiot post no stupid post or what so ever"

Meeze, just stick to your favorited area -> Flameboard, i'm sure you can handle that ^^, and don't be one of those Typing skill Nazi.

Thank,
Vandoura
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Read the person I quoted you 3rd grade dropout. He said who is going to be around to butcher the language and make stupid posts. Well, that would be you, as you so elequontly (sp) proved in this post I'm quoting here. Stupid ideas are covered as well, what the fuck does free speech have to do with a forum? Answer that one, maybe I'll forgive you for all your years of giving cyber head to the richest players on quetzy to get where you are now.
 
I think rules need some leeway as well, for example, leave it to the mod's discretion to determine whether a post is spam, instead of having a 100 page rulebook of specific spam examples. That sort of leeway and discretion is a good idea.

Just on a side note, my arguments thus far have been targeted at the Marajade/Mai Ikari camp's argument (sort of a side argument to the thread) that people like Blazn and Peregrine should be able to be banned simply because they irritate enough people, despite not breaking actual rules. There are people here (at QCDN, not this thread in particular) I don't like, but I don't think they should be banned. I think I should skip their posts.

The staff here tends to have pretty good judgement. Can't say I've disagreed with too many decisions. I'm glad the staff hasn't bent to the will of the community who'd ban for much less. Miros says it'd be unfair to ban for being unpopular, and I agree completely. Many in this thread would seem to disagree. It was that sort of problem I've been trying to warn against. I'm glad the ban was given for stuff that's in the rules, and not for all the other stuff.
 
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Miros said:
I think you're taking this a little too far. I wasn't going to ban Blazn on the fact that people don't like him, that's not fair. This thread was more just a post for people to get stuff out, and if they happened to show me a good post where it violated the rules, then I would take appropriate action. He was banned because of the threats against QCDN he made. I'm giving him a week to cool down. When that week is up, he'll be back if there's no valid reason to ban him. I don't think that's harsh at all.
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Hasn't the fact that he's already created an alternate sockpuppet after the ban, AND that he's already made threats (albeit retarded) while being banned, enough to justify booting him for good?
 
If new rules are going to be made. How about a rule that you need to belong to the Quetzalcoatl server to be able to post here. I also don't see the rule that you need to post your characters name being enforced.
 
mugenteg said:
If new rules are going to be made. How about a rule that you need to belong to the Quetzalcoatl server to be able to post here. I also don't see the rule that you need to post your characters name being enforced.
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The name in the sig rule hasen't been amended back in yet since Sculli's overhaul. As for the quetzy membership there's more than a few of us out here that no longer play but still like to chat. There are also more boards than just endgame and XI gen discussion, although for those two boards i could dig what you're saying.
 
That's an easy enough fix, "Current or former resident of Quez" with allowance for those people planning to come to quetz.
 
The rules I would like to see reviewed are...

-Names in sig: Removed when flameboard was removed. Since it is back, rule should be enforced.

-Sockpuppets from any banned individual: I believe a person should be ip banned if they can't deal and create sockpuppets. This rule is iffy currently.

-Flaming outside the fb: Automatic deletion of post or thread if necessary. I turn Nazi here because I personally hate the flameboard. So I am not the correct person to create rules there.

-Avatar/Sig guidelines: These need updating bad. I miss my animated avatar. :( Hoping we can poll people for that one.

Mind you, these are what I feel need to be looked at. I'm not speaking as a rep really in this post for qcdn, but more my personal belief.

If anyone has any other suggestions, please bring em up. :)
 
I like those. Maybe add or expand on a policy against "flamebaiting"? I think that would help us weed out a lot of chronic problems. Flamebaiting is pretty much the dancing around the rules that the names thrown around lately have been guilty of. Put some stipulations in the rules, and you can go to town making QCDN a better place, with some justification to do so.
 
Flamebaiting is hard to define, but if there's a workable definition, it'd be a great addition to the rules. Happens a lot and almost always works.

Also, more specific sig guidelines would be good...

Just as a generic idea... Say you have 5 options, "sig" image (limited to 450x250 pixels, maybe a bit larger), 1-3 lines of screenshotted test, those "You are xxxx" images or similar, a forum quote, and unspecified text (job levels, links, etc). My own sig is a good example of 4, Vandoura's has that "You are Ashe" thing. And can only pick 3 of the 5, and you could pick the same non-"sig" one 3 times. I think that would make it prettymuch impossible to have too long a sig.

Or maybe I'm just being a sig-nazi.
 
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