I was defeated 48 times by Absolute Virtue...

[Nolie]

You don't give your gil away just because you've got more than you need and you also don't plan on spending it anytime soon. While the gil will always be there and AV won't, it's still the same principle.

Not to butt my head in here, but this doesn't make sense. So you are saying that if you had gil, but you were gonna lose it either way, you wouldn't give it to someone who could make use out of it?


No one is saying you didn't work hard for the pop set, but what harm is there in letting another shell (who has been trying to pop AV) a chance at it, since as you said you guys were not excpecting it to pop or prepared for it. That being said it's obvious you had no intentions of fighting it.


Anyways that's how i see this, i understand to a certain extent what Euphacent is saying, but really if you have no intention of doing anything with it, why not let someone else take a shot at it who is prepared to fight it?


PS you can never have too much gil =P

 

[Uzor]

Anyways that's how i see this, i understand to a certain extent what Euphacent is saying, but really if you have no intention of doing anything with it, why not let someone else take a shot at it who is prepared to fight it?

Rather easy. SE made a huge friggin' misstake when they designed Sea, in that it takes several months to get a J'lo pop set. I believe we've been doing Sea for over a year, and have made a total of 5 J'lo pop sets. To top it all off, AV pop from J'lo is random, meaning you're lucky if you get to see J'lo once a year.

That also answers Rappa and Neophytal's attitude, in that it doesn't matter if you lose exp. If you're worried about losing exp, don't get involved in end-game. Personally, I don't give a fuck if I die in a end-game fight or not. While I'll do my best to avoid dieing, its not because I'm trying to avoid the loss of exp, its mainly because it hurts the rest of the people attending if they lose a WHM, RDM or BLM.

I do end-game events to have fun, not for the reward. While most people don't share my attitude towards end-game events, and hate doing events that they don't gain anything from, and loathe (sp?) doing events where they don't gain something *AND* lose exp, I can't do anything but feelign sorry for their attitude. They obviously take the game as a choir, instead of fun, which is what a game is supposed to be.

and Neophytal, I seriously laugh at your attempts to upset me. So please answer my question, why would calling me "Luzor" upset me? Uzor is a in-game name, not even my own, why would it upset me? Secondly, my friends call me Luzor, and much worse things all the time. So I'm used to it, and thus, you fail. Additionally, I do find it rather selfish resorting to "name changing" because I question your motives.

And btw, yes. No one knows of a strategy to kill AV easily. Hell, no one really knows what triggers the locked 2-hours and spell-casting. All we know is killing AV withouth triggering this is impossible, unless you want to see him constantly Benediction whenever you get him down to 10%. Although I suppose you can have some fun with the Chainspell Meteors.

Even if you did manage to trigger this state, he's still not easy. Most LS's have an alliance of BLMes nuking him, and several Kraken DRK's 2-houring him, stacked with some Ridill WAR's and a PLD with Aegis to tank him.

And the reason end-game shells don't want to team up with eachother is rather simple, most people hate the other shells for CC'ing them etc. There's a lot of other things involved, but that's the basics of it.

 

[Firestreak]

We should handle sea like we do dynamis, seperate from HNM/God shells. Why? It takes more people to efficiently farm sea than most shells want in their regular shells. Sea takes so much work and is involved in so much frusteration, a huge large section of every shell don't want to farm it for the rewards. As well a percent of every shell don't want to do the CoP missions for sea access, or simply can't get them done.

It can't happen however because every HNM shell does their own sea, and it takes up all the endgamers so there's not enough people left to try and populate a shell like that since they won't be allowed to do sea if they are in a HNM LS that does sea.

 

[Nolie]

Rather easy. SE made a huge friggin' misstake when they designed Sea, in that it takes several months to get a J'lo pop set. I believe we've been doing Sea for over a year, and have made a total of 5 J'lo pop sets. To top it all off, AV pop from J'lo is random, meaning you're lucky if you get to see J'lo once a year.

this may even emphasis my point, that if it is so rare to get AV to pop, and you have no preperation or intention to fight him, why not give him to someone else or team up at least with other people?

If your attitude is all about the fun of the game, which is good may i add, then you would be pro teaming up at the very least, because at least fighting him properly would be alot more fun that senseless dying with nothing to show for it, not even a good fight.

 

[Firestreak]

I doubt they popped intentionally to prevent other people from getting AV rather at what time was best for them to kill JoL which was their main target.

 

[Nolie]

I doubt they popped intentionally to prevent other people from getting AV rather at what time was best for them to kill JoL which was their main target.

not saying they were, but the thing is for example Euphacent who came on and said he absolutly disagrees with letting another ls fight it when he/they worked so hard for the popset. Once again i'm not trying to take away from their hard work to get to that stage, but if you aren't even thinking about AV popping after you obviously aren't going to be prepared for the fight.

 

[Uzor]

this may even emphasis my point, that if it is so rare to get AV to pop, and you have no preperation or intention to fight him, why not give him to someone else or team up at least with other people?

Because it goes hand-in-hand with end-game LS's hating eachother. You don't want to see another LS claim the Kirin you wiped to, and you don't want to see the AV you popped that you may not see again for a year killed by another LS.

Besides, if you DID team up with another LS, how would you handle the drops? While shell A popped and killed J'lo and got AV to pop, the other shell that helped out would certainly want a piece of the cake aswell. So who would get what drops? That would cause even MORE drama then we already have.

 

[Jrodtaru]

<deleted>

 

[Hmkiroko]

Besides, if you DID team up with another LS, how would you handle the drops?

Instead of completely ruling this possibility out off the bat, how about you discuss this with the other party? Most people are reasonable, so why not work something REASONABLE out.

All our stupid drama problems in the game are the cause of people not talking to each other to gain a better understanding of their point of view, and other's acting like morons, instead of reasonable, logical, rational people.

I don't know if this is too much to ask of everyone though.

 

[Uzor]

Instead of completely ruling this possibility out off the bat, how about you discuss this with the other party? Most people are reasonable, so why not work something REASONABLE out.

All our stupid drama problems in the game are the cause of people not talking to each other to gain a better understanding of their point of view, and other's acting like morons, instead of reasonable, logical, rational people.

I don't know if this is too much to ask of everyone though.

Quite simple. Most other LS's hate Antares since many of the members were in OuterHeaven. They call all of OH cheaters, and thus, many in OH dislike the other shells as a whole. While they may like some of the members in the shell, and some of the members of the other shells like some of the members in Antares, it usually causes too much problems with the other shells.

It is possible, though, to work together with people not as involved with end-game HNM scene, which Antares have done many times. But most people ARE involved in the HNM scene.

Many attempts to make the linkshells work together have been done before, and all of them failed. Why would this be any different?

 

[Nolie]

Because it goes hand-in-hand with end-game LS's hating eachother. You don't want to see another LS claim the Kirin you wiped to, and you don't want to see the AV you popped that you may not see again for a year killed by another LS.

Besides, if you DID team up with another LS, how would you handle the drops? While shell A popped and killed J'lo and got AV to pop, the other shell that helped out would certainly want a piece of the cake aswell. So who would get what drops? That would cause even MORE drama then we already have.

Not all Engame ls's hate eachother lol, but regardless there is hate going around you are right. Now comparing this to kirin is unfair, because kirin is the direct result of your work, you go there to fight him, and you are ready for it. AV can't really be compared to anything else because of it's difficulty to pop and the conditions in which it does pop. The got what they went there for and AV was just a bonus, though not really when you aren't ready for it, just turns into death.

In regards to teaming up, it's not a new concept. Generally it will be setup withing the shell who would get to lot what items, then one person from each shell gets a chance to lot. Seems pretty fair to me. I've heard of other cases where you decide this shell gets this and another shell gets that, but that is more complicated and can easily lead to alot of drama.

Doesn't really matter now because it's done, but it would be nice to see AV get taken down.

 

[Uzor]

Well, the problem with just splitting drops like that, is:

The other shell is just there to help, wouldn't it be unfair for them to reap the benefits of another LS's year of work?

But on the other hand, the other shell wouldn't be able to kill AV without their help.

So which shell should get the largest reward? The one popping, or the one killing?

 

[neophytal]

Rather easy. SE made a huge friggin' misstake when they designed Sea, in that it takes several months to get a J'lo pop set. I believe we've been doing Sea for over a year, and have made a total of 5 J'lo pop sets. To top it all off, AV pop from J'lo is random, meaning you're lucky if you get to see J'lo once a year.

That also answers Rappa and Neophytal's attitude, in that it doesn't matter if you lose exp. If you're worried about losing exp, don't get involved in end-game. Personally, I don't give a fuck if I die in a end-game fight or not. While I'll do my best to avoid dieing, its not because I'm trying to avoid the loss of exp, its mainly because it hurts the rest of the people attending if they lose a WHM, RDM or BLM.

my attitude.. lol.. its cool it popped, congrats?? but i dont see the point of practical documentaries of a wipe... with tons and tons of photos/videos/etc.. lol but if thats your thing, cool.

I do end-game events to have fun, not for the reward. While most people don't share my attitude towards end-game events, and hate doing events that they don't gain anything from, and loathe (sp?) doing events where they don't gain something *AND* lose exp, I can't do anything but feelign sorry for their attitude. They obviously take the game as a choir, instead of fun, which is what a game is supposed to be.

i have fun but i dont like dying. i dont get *mad* if i die, but part of my goal and part of being a good player is knowing how to avoid death.

i guess this would account for my extremely low death count in adventurer stats.

(this was is May, so a bit outdated, but 460 deaths in 40,739 battles (and alot of hard end game fights) is not bad at all.

and Neophytal, I seriously laugh at your attempts to upset me. So please answer my question, why would calling me "Luzor" upset me? Uzor is a in-game name, not even my own, why would it upset me? Secondly, my friends call me Luzor, and much worse things all the time. So I'm used to it, and thus, you fail. Additionally, I do find it rather selfish resorting to "name changing" because I question your motives.

i just think the name fits and is funny, so, yep, i use it.

you're right, im so "trying" to upset you. i actually just call you that because its rather pathetic you attempt to start a fight in every thread that has somewhat of a debate going on. its getting old. me telling you to drop it does not equal me trying to upset you.

And the reason end-game shells don't want to team up with eachother is rather simple, most people hate the other shells for CC'ing them etc. There's a lot of other things involved, but that's the basics of it.

actually, its really not CC'ing. its the people in the shells and the history that those shells have with the other shells, not just the pure fact that they are CC'd that causes shells to dislike each other.

*also added*
while alot of people are in it for the fight, alot of people are in it for the drops too. a big problem with a split AV is dividing drops, who gets what, and who decides what is fair. i can just see the problems with that now...

 

[Firestreak]

From what I understand, the other shells that team up on other servers are actually doing sea as a seperate shell altogether with all of them inside it. Then yes, people from different HNM shells are working together and sharing lots - but within the shell they all have their own point system.`If it's a "helper", then the design would have to be different.

What would be fair would be like... all the shells in sea agree to assist each other with AV/(JoL maybe), and by helping 1 shell get the kill your reward is instead of lotting, getting their help when you do AV.

That's 1 setup, but all the different possible setups are in some way inbalanced - from lotting everyone get a lot, to just1 LS or whatever. Someone may complain (my LS brought in 40 members to help yours, you guys only brought in 20 to help us), and they'd in a sense be right.

Hence if the intention is working together, the only fair way is a single shell set apart - and then people who don't like sea don't have to join it, and people not in a HNM shell at all can still join it.

 

[Uzor]

actually, its really not CC'ing. its the people in the shells and the history that those shells have with the other shells, not just the pure fact that they are CC'd that causes shells to dislike each other.

Its partually CC too. I didn't say it was ONLY CC, I said part of it was because of it. And yes, there's a lot of other things aswell, which I said.

As for the debate thing, I'm not jumping in to every thread. I just think its fun that you're breaking the rules as a mod by harrasing other LS's and stalking them. Why else would you post in every thread OH/Antares related? And I do believe one rule in Goot Times was that you're not allowed to flame in it. Although it might be an old rule.

 

[neophytal]

Why else would you post in every thread OH/Antares related? And I do believe one rule in Goot Times was that you're not allowed to flame in it. Although it might be an old rule.

i post in pretty much any interesting topic--

and once again, false accusations! you're good at these. i didnt flame anyone, unless you consider my using lUzor a flame. but thats pretty justified considering you came in your own linkshells thread and started picking fights and starting stuff which you have done now, yet again.

this my last reply towards you in this thread.

 

[Hmkiroko]

What would be fair would be like... all the shells in sea agree to assist each other with AV/(JoL maybe), and by helping 1 shell get the kill your reward is instead of lotting, getting their help when you do AV.

That's 1 setup, but all the different possible setups are in some way inbalanced - from lotting everyone get a lot, to just1 LS or whatever. Someone may complain (my LS brought in 40 members to help yours, you guys only brought in 20 to help us), and they'd in a sense be right.

Hence if the intention is working together, the only fair way is a single shell set apart - and then people who don't like sea don't have to join it, and people not in a HNM shell at all can still join it.

Any volunteers for doing this? Sounds like a half decent idea.

 

[Uzor]

I didn't start shit Neophytal. I responded to others. Like how you said you did, aswell. And don't accuse me of false accusation when you did the very same thing yourself.

And while that could work Hmkiroko, greed through

Someone may complain (my LS brought in 40 members to help yours, you guys only brought in 20 to help us), and they'd in a sense be right.

would probably ruin it later on. Best thing would be to create 1 or 2 shell seperate from end-game which everyone could go to.

 

[Nolie]

Any volunteers for doing this? Sounds like a half decent idea.

lol well i have no sea now, but when i get it i would lol, but the thing is it may fall through is that people will not wanna wait in line with 60 other people for items.

 

[Firestreak]

Any volunteers for doing this? Sounds like a half decent idea.

Assuming you're talking about the "joint shell" it would require the consent of all the HNM shells to leave sea to the joint shell, and I can tell you most would say no. On the other hand I could see some shells which aren't big into sea or new into sea wanting to come on board to the project and with success other shells joining in.

As to who would do it? The leader would need to be someone who is a senior member of one of the big shells and has excellent relations with all the other shells. Do any of them exist, probably not.