Illegal Immigration

[chpal]

Im doing a Reserach Paper in schoool about Illegal Immigration. Ive read lots of websites defending illegal immigration and attacking. Im curious to know what you guys think about the so called "Alien Invasion"
I came here Illegaly from Mexico. Ive done nothing wrong in this coutry and I love it to death. I dont understand why some ppl are so pissed we came here illgeally.
We GAINED our right to be here. All those people against illegal immigration dont do anything for this country, all they do is bitch and blame immigrants for their own problems. WHy is is that the majority of immigration (legal and illegal) opponents are poor lower class ppl? They must find a person to blame and the perfect target is the poor MExican that cant speak english and came here to feed his family. Im not illegal anymore. I dont think its fair that America can force a illegal "alien" to join the Armend forces, and pay taxes, yet they cant give us damn licenses.

 

[Xelos]

Well your case is understandable. I am not taking any sides in this. But I will tell you the reasoning behind the opponents of illegal immigration.

Recently, with the 9/11 attacks, our country has changed into something new. Security all over the place is enhanced and strengthened by who knows how much. There are only 2 things that we have not concentrated on enough: Ports and borders.

I will not delve too much onto the port issue because it is irrelevant in this case. What many conservatives are afraid of is that if our border relationships (especially with Mexico) are too relaxed, then any extremist or terrorist may come here via Mexico and cause damage to the country.

Now, what I stated above is what most opponents of illigeal immigration use to cover up their true intentions. Unfortunately, in our society, there is still much racism and bias which will make people want to turn away our neighbors to the south.

I live in Texas. I am hispanic. Am I Mexican? Absolutely not. Do people look at me and think I am Mexican? Of course! Do they think I am less intelligent because of my ethinic background? YES! Do I make fools of them and twist their speech around so that they contradict themselves and end up making them feel embarrased and owned? ALL THE TIME!

You see, many of these conservative opponents of illegal immigration are basically either biased or extremely concerned for the country in terms of terrorist attack. Those are the 2 extremes that I can think of for the basis of this case.

I forgot to mention the war on drugs, but I am too lazy to go back and change what I said above. The war on drugs is yet another reason why the US is trying to enforce border relations with Mexico since much of the illegal drugs used in the US comes from either Mexico or South America. These used to be easily smuggled across the border, thus giving an even worse image for any immigrant trying to gain citizenship in the US. Because now they have to be scrutinized to make sure they arent terrorists, as well as deal with the prejudices of education and drugs.


Those are just a collection of thoughts that I can think of for now.


Good luck on your paper.

 

[Sneakypants]

I'm not going to get into it much, as I am not the one doing the paper, but I do believe illegal immigration is a big problem (ILLEGAL being the key word). So you come to a country and you are breaking the law the second you step foot in it...GREAT! :roll:

Regarding what happens after that:
How does an illegal immigrant get paid by an employer (who is just as guilty for hiring illegal help)??
How does the illegal immigrant get health care?
How does the illegal immigrant get auto insurance?
How does the illegal immigrant invest any money or contribute to social security or pay other taxes that support the country?


There are more things to take into account that are bad for a country or it's legal citizens, but those are some obvious examples.
What good does an illegal immigrant bring to a country, outside of their sparkling personalities??? Nothing. It's all not good. Illegal immigrants are deceitful from the get go. Come over legally, and I have NO problem with anyone, from anywhere. Come over illegally, and if I find out I will report your ass the first chance I get.


I should just turn away from this thread, because I feel it'll only piss me off, but people turning away from the issue has been part of the problem. I'd rather be pissed and talk about this problem than ignore it and watch the country suffer because of it.

 

[xKronox]

:? I live in Corpus christi, Texas thats like 2 hours north of mexico. So yeah., Anyhow, Illegal immigration is a big factor on why this economy is shit right now. Also Illegal immigrants like to come over, get free medical care, have the surgery fail when it was @20% chance in the first place, and then fucking sue.

My county nuecess county has the highest lawsuit abuse rate in the fucking nation, yes the fucking nation. Not only that but we also have the highest teen pregenacy rate, highest drop out rate in the fucking nation. No BS either. And since this is the biggest city from mexico, where do you think they go? either you go northwest or northeast, west brings you to LA, east brings you to CC.

Need I say that they are taking our jobs, and not just shit jobs that we want work in. You know high school kids want to work easy part time jobs also. Shit some are even taking decent jobs.

And don't think that illegal immigration is happening some place far away, and there's nothing you can do. Or it's hopeless... This shit is happening right in your backyard.

Mexico is a fucked up country, and we don't need it's shit poring into ours.

Also if you were offended by this, go to hell.

 

[Pascal]

Don’t take this the wrong way Chpal, I just want to help you see the other sides of the problem. To write a good paper on this you truly are going to need to put your self in the others people shoes. Ask your self why they are complaining, feel what they feel.

Why should some people have to wait years and spend a great deal of money to come into this country while others just simply walk across the boarder?

It is a simple truth there are not enough jobs in the US for our legal population. For every illegal that comes into this country, some one who came here legally loses their job. Those people want to be able to feed their families too.

There is no such thing in this country as a job an American is not willing to do, only jobs that companies want pay less for.

Why does the Mexican population, not fix the problems of there own country? It has taken a lot of work for the US to become what it has become (for good or for bad), why should citizens of another country not work just as hard?

At one time a factor worker used to make 7.00 to 10.00 an hour plus benefits, with illegal and legal immigration, those jobs now pay minimal wage or less with no benefits and in some cases are sweatshop conditionals now. As well theses factors are now shutting down and moving to China. How do you think the immigrants feel about their jobs going overseas?

Construction jobs used to be considered trade skills or even professional, they are now unskilled labor. How do you think the people who have spent years learning their trades feel?

Why should a manger have to learn a second language when the employees are not willing to learn another language?

 

[Sneakypants]

Mostly, I agree.
I have an equally proportioned problem with why this happens and who is responsible for letting it happen (employing illegal immigrants, giving them medical care, allowing them to sue, and otherwise single handedly sacrificing the country because they can't see past tomorrow), as I do with the illegal immigrants themselves.

 

[Mr.Wonko]

Not only that but we also have the highest teen pregenacy rate, highest drop out rate in the fucking nation.

I've heard the same thing from about twenty different people in twenty different counties. I believed the first guy who told me this, who was from Vallejo CA, but started to wonder when others said the same thing, seeming to take it as a point of pride. I've heard the same thing about the three Texas counties where I've lived; Brazos, Wilbarger, and Lubbock.
So, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't believe anyone who says something like this to me.

 

[chpal]

I see what you mean. Sneakypants. I came here Illegaly. What are you going to do about it? Report me? Why? Because my Father wanted a better life for me and my family? Because he wanted a future for us? Illegal Immigration only acounts for 7 million people in this country. Thats NOTHING compared to the overall population, so saying that they are taking huge amounts of jobs away is BS. Who really wants to work in Landcaping? Restaurants? Fields? No Americans do.
Krono: What do you mean? Mexico is a "fucked up" country? What part are you talking about? Did you know only the POOREST AND MOST oppressed people come here Illegaly? THe rich smart people dont. Yes Krono, there are rich people in MExico, and very smart too. Only a VERY small percatage comes here.

 

[Sneakypants]

No. What I am saying is that you can do it legally or illegally.
Or your father could anyway...
If your family came over legally, and truly EARNED the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE to be here, I'd have no beef...Only respect. I can understand that a family wants a better life. Duh! :roll: :lol:
Whether you come illegally or legally, to capitalize on a thriving economy, or to exploit it and degrade it, I think we all realize that people only jump countries to either make things better.

Laws and "small percentages" just don't really belong together in this instance. If it is allowed to happen, a precedent is set, regardless of what the law says...It's being allowed. It's not being stopped. I blame the gov't, border control and funding of border control, employers hiring illegals, and anyone servicing illegals in any way. They are all part of the problem. A law...A rule, is put in place for the reason to protect.

Wha I don't get is why so many illegals seem to think they really do have a right to be here. That's not remotely true. I mean you had a right, but you thought you were above the law and decided to ignore the legal way to go about it. I am supposed to respect that? This is just general principle before any of the aftereffects of illegal immigration. If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Do I cae to expose you and your family? Hell no. Do I wish you were here legally, so I didn't put you in the same scum filled pot with the rest of them that are here illegally? Yeah, because I have grown to like you via QCDN...Just because someone is nice doesn't make them good from every angle.

The only beef I have with you, is that you really seem to think it's ok. It's ILLEGAL no matter how you slice it. You have fucked with the country and the laws within. You are no angel as a result. None of us are perfect, but what would you do, plead insanity? Border hopping is pre-meditated. You knowingly came here illegally.

 

[Devi]

No. What I am saying is that you can do it legally or illegally.
Or your father could anyway...
If your family came over legally, and truly EARNED the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE to be here, I'd have no beef...Only respect. I can understand that a family wants a better life. Duh! :roll: :lol:
Whether you come illegally or legally, to capitalize on a thriving economy, or to exploit it and degrade it, I think we all realize that people only jump countries to either make things better.

Laws and "small percentages" just don't really belong together in this instance. If it is allowed to happen, a precedent is set, regardless of what the law says...It's being allowed. It's not being stopped. I blame the gov't, border control and funding of border control, employers hiring illegals, and anyone servicing illegals in any way. They are all part of the problem. A law...A rule, is put in place for the reason to protect.

Wha I don't get is why so many illegals seem to think they really do have a right to be here. That's not remotely true. I mean you had a right, but you thought you were above the law and decided to ignore the legal way to go about it. I am supposed to respect that? This is just general principle before any of the aftereffects of illegal immigration. If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Do I cae to expose you and your family? Hell no. Do I wish you were here legally, so I didn't put you in the same scum filled pot with the rest of them that are here illegally? Yeah, because I have grown to like you via QCDN...Just because someone is nice doesn't make them good from every angle.

The only beef I have with you, is that you really seem to think it's ok. It's ILLEGAL no matter how you slice it. You have fucked with the country and the laws within. You are no angel as a result. None of us are perfect, but what would you do, plead insanity? Border hopping is pre-meditated. You knowingly came here illegally.

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but what rights and privileges do we have just cause we got a lucky toss of the dice and were born here? I think most of the people in this country dont' deserve it....they dont' apreciate it, if anything, immagrants have a right to be here, legall or not, I mean really think about it for a second. The Revolutionary war was illeagal, we defected from another country. America is supposed to be the great melting pot, where anyone can come here and make a life for themselfs, sure leagaly immagrating is better than illeagaly, but I think it's getting a bit tyranical with this "Reasoning be damned that's illeagal". Would you arest someone who stole bread to feed their family? I know I wouldn't because everything has a reason, people dont' just break the law for fun (never mind the exceptions right now), there's ussaly a pressure that builds up till it reaches a boiling point, and then action has to be taken, by any means nessacary.

If you had a terrible life in some thrid world country (just any ol' random one), and you had a chance to come to America, illeagly, I think most people would take it....they wouldn't sit there and think "Gee my family is hungry, we're poor, and it's only getting worse, but we'll not head to America, cause it's illegal" You'd do what was best for you and your family, and say "fuck the laws we need a better life."

 

[Veresko]

Illegal Immigration only acounts for 7 million people in this country. Thats NOTHING compared to the overall population, so saying that they are taking huge amounts of jobs away is BS.

Ok, I did not want to step in because I don't live in the US so I may not have seen or felt the ''Problem'' of illegal immigration (even if there is quite a bit here in Canada). But that I had to point out. Chpal, no offense, but that argument is BS. 7 Millions of illegal people is a big number, 1 million would be a big number. Why? Because as Sneakypants pointed out, by allowing 1, you are creating a precedent. You can't just allow a certain number of people to come in illegally then just wake up one day and go"Ok, that's enough, no more illegal immigration". You can't just wait and wait untill you reach a point where it becomes a really big problem before doing anything.

Just imagine coming home from work one day with the groceries, that you paid with your hard earned money. Suddenly your your neighbour walks in and grab something from the fridge, without asking. I am pretty sure you would kick him out. But if I take your argument, you would say Ok, one is allright, he just wants to eat cause he might be starving. Before you know it you have 2 people, then the whole street just comes in and empties your fridge.....

If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Don't even think about coming to Canada, we don't want your sneaky ass in here!!! :lol:

EDIT:

I know I wouldn't because everything has a reason, people dont' just break the law for fun (never mind the exceptions right now), there's ussaly a pressure that builds up till it reaches a boiling point, and then action has to be taken, by any means nessacary.

Ok Devi, you are gonna have to support this with some facts or numbers, cause this is just a statement out of the air. What about a speeding ticket, bank robbery, rape, murder, etc. People usually break the law because they have a reason? Probably. So we should give them a slap on the butt and tell them "I understand, good job Tiger"? HELL NO! Again, if you have worked your butt off for that piece of bread and someone steals it to feed his familly, leaving you with nothing, you'd go out and say it's ok for him to do so?

 

[Sneakypants]

No. What I am saying is that you can do it legally or illegally.
Or your father could anyway...
If your family came over legally, and truly EARNED the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE to be here, I'd have no beef...Only respect. I can understand that a family wants a better life. Duh! :roll: :lol:
Whether you come illegally or legally, to capitalize on a thriving economy, or to exploit it and degrade it, I think we all realize that people only jump countries to either make things better.

Laws and "small percentages" just don't really belong together in this instance. If it is allowed to happen, a precedent is set, regardless of what the law says...It's being allowed. It's not being stopped. I blame the gov't, border control and funding of border control, employers hiring illegals, and anyone servicing illegals in any way. They are all part of the problem. A law...A rule, is put in place for the reason to protect.

Wha I don't get is why so many illegals seem to think they really do have a right to be here. That's not remotely true. I mean you had a right, but you thought you were above the law and decided to ignore the legal way to go about it. I am supposed to respect that? This is just general principle before any of the aftereffects of illegal immigration. If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Do I cae to expose you and your family? Hell no. Do I wish you were here legally, so I didn't put you in the same scum filled pot with the rest of them that are here illegally? Yeah, because I have grown to like you via QCDN...Just because someone is nice doesn't make them good from every angle.

The only beef I have with you, is that you really seem to think it's ok. It's ILLEGAL no matter how you slice it. You have fucked with the country and the laws within. You are no angel as a result. None of us are perfect, but what would you do, plead insanity? Border hopping is pre-meditated. You knowingly came here illegally.

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but what rights and privileges do we have just cause we got a lucky toss of the dice and were born here? I think most of the people in this country dont' deserve it....they dont' apreciate it, if anything, immagrants have a right to be here, legall or not, I mean really think about it for a second. The Revolutionary war was illeagal, we defected from another country. America is supposed to be the great melting pot, where anyone can come here and make a life for themselfs, sure leagaly immagrating is better than illeagaly, but I think it's getting a bit tyranical with this "Reasoning be damned that's illeagal". Would you arest someone who stole bread to feed their family? I know I wouldn't because everything has a reason, people dont' just break the law for fun (never mind the exceptions right now), there's ussaly a pressure that builds up till it reaches a boiling point, and then action has to be taken, by any means nessacary.

If you had a terrible life in some thrid world country (just any ol' random one), and you had a chance to come to America, illeagly, I think most people would take it....they wouldn't sit there and think "Gee my family is hungry, we're poor, and it's only getting worse, but we'll not head to America, cause it's illegal" You'd do what was best for you and your family, and say "fuck the laws we need a better life."

Bah, I knew someone would be short-sighted and cynical and nit pick that. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Blah blah blah...I'm still legal. And by the sounds of it, I have more respect and love for the country than you do. Stop coming out of right field and take what is said for face value. Don't read between the lines.

This is not about finding a loophole. Fucking loopholes ruin this country as is. Yes IF I had a terrible life somewhere I may go and do something drastic...I'd also have to face any consequences.

The question was asked if I am for or against it. I am against it. I am for protecting America. Illegal immigration is a problem for America. If it 50 million people or 7 million or just 250, they need to go through the proper channels to be here. Any other country would kick their asses out in a heartbeat. The US has gotten soft. This is why I blame the inactive as much as the actually illegals.

Anyway, it sounds like you are for illegal immigration, Devi?
Although I don't see that you actually come out and say either way or give any reasons. You just kind of take the round-about and choose to attempt to dismantle my viewpoint.


Bold print! Right there! OOH!!! Loophole!!
Quit the point/counterpoint, round-about, tendancy to root for the underdog shit and just tell me how you feel about this issue and why.

 

[Sneakypants]

If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Don't even think about coming to Canada, we don't want your sneaky ass in here!!! :lol:

No problem...

 

[Devi]

Illegal Immigration only acounts for 7 million people in this country. Thats NOTHING compared to the overall population, so saying that they are taking huge amounts of jobs away is BS.

Ok, I did not want to step in because I don't live in the US so I may not have seen or felt the ''Problem'' of illegal immigration (even if there is quite a bit here in Canada). But that I had to point out. Chpal, no offense, but that argument is BS. 7 Millions of illegal people is a big number, 1 million would be a big number. Why? Because as Sneakypants pointed out, by allowing 1, you are creating a precedent. You can't just allow a certain number of people to come in illegally then just wake up one day and go"Ok, that's enough, no more illegal immigration". You can't just wait and wait untill you reach a point where it becomes a really big problem before doing anything.

Just imagine coming home from work one day with the groceries, that you paid with your hard earned money. Suddenly your your neighbour walks in and grab something from the fridge, without asking. I am pretty sure you would kick him out. But if I take your argument, you would say Ok, one is allright, he just wants to eat cause he might be starving. Before you know it you have 2 people, then the whole street just comes in and empties your fridge.....

If I did the same thing and hopped a border to any country, I would expect that my punishment would be harsh and quite honestly, fair......

Don't even think about coming to Canada, we don't want your sneaky ass in here!!! :lol:

That's a crap analagy the USA is not a fridge, jobs aren't food, there is plenty of work if people would look for it and take what they can get, you don't wanna clean floors? got another option? no? well then stfu! Most Americans have this stupid idea that they can be like the people on the TV and won't take jobs that they concider "demeaning" well someone has to clean up your mall, someone has to work at a car wash, Americans won't take these jobs but will turn around and bitch about it if someone else gets them...it's retarded and hypocritical.... The truth is a lot of people will hire "Ileagals" because they don't have workers rights, less pay, longer hours, and no way to complain if anything goes wrong.

 

[Veresko]

That's a crap analagy the USA is not a fridge, jobs aren't food, ...

I know it's not, that's why it's called an analogy. As far as it being bad, maybe you just id not take time to think about it. Groceries represents the advantages and services that you are entitled as a US citezen, like healthcare and such. Those are the thing that you have PAID for with your taxes. Then someone comes along and steals them. Why? Because they are illegal, they have'nt paid a penny in taxes.....

Americans won't take these jobs but will turn around and bitch about it if someone else gets them...it's retarded and hypocritical....

that's another problem.... related yes, but different.

The truth is a lot of people will hire "Ileagals" because they don't have workers rights, less pay, longer hours, and no way to complain if anything goes wrong.

So what is your point? We should just let them in so we can exploit them?

 

[Devi]

That's a crap analagy the USA is not a fridge, jobs aren't food, ...

I know it's not, that's why it's called an analogy. As far as it being bad, maybe you just id not take time to think about it. Groceries represents the advantages and services that you are entitled as a US citezen, like healthcare and such. Those are the thing that you have PAID for with your taxes. Then someone comes along and steals them. Why? Because they are illegal, they have'nt paid a penny in taxes.....

Americans won't take these jobs but will turn around and bitch about it if someone else gets them...it's retarded and hypocritical....

that's another problem.... related yes, but different.

The truth is a lot of people will hire "Ileagals" because they don't have workers rights, less pay, longer hours, and no way to complain if anything goes wrong.

So what is your point? We should just let them in so we can exploit them?

I'm saying it's not a cut and dry situation, that it's screwed up no matter how you look at it. I'm not saying let them in and i'm not saying lock the border....it's complicated.....

 

[Sneakypants]

That's a crap analagy the USA is not a fridge, jobs aren't food, there is plenty of work if people would look for it and take what they can get, you don't wanna clean floors? got another option? no? well then stfu! Most Americans have this stupid idea that they can be like the people on the TV and won't take jobs that they concider "demeaning" well someone has to clean up your mall, someone has to work at a car wash, Americans won't take these jobs but will turn around and bitch about it if someone else gets them...it's retarded and hypocritical.... The truth is a lot of people will hire "Ileagals" because they don't have workers rights, less pay, longer hours, and no way to complain if anything goes wrong.

Then please, by your own logic, stop with the crap analogies.

 

[Devi]

That's a crap analagy the USA is not a fridge, jobs aren't food, there is plenty of work if people would look for it and take what they can get, you don't wanna clean floors? got another option? no? well then stfu! Most Americans have this stupid idea that they can be like the people on the TV and won't take jobs that they concider "demeaning" well someone has to clean up your mall, someone has to work at a car wash, Americans won't take these jobs but will turn around and bitch about it if someone else gets them...it's retarded and hypocritical.... The truth is a lot of people will hire "Ileagals" because they don't have workers rights, less pay, longer hours, and no way to complain if anything goes wrong.

Then please, by your own logic, stop with the crap analogies.

Where's my analogy? I didnt compare anything to anything esle....

 

[Veresko]

Sneakypants, since you are so against the Illigal Immigration for different reason, let me ask you this, what about you Americans crossig over to the Canada to get free medical consultations and surgery, with illegal Medical Cards, then going back home to enjoy their renewed health.

Or what about medical supplies and drugs (in a medical term) being sold from Canada to the US, because for some reason they are cheaper here. It represented last year a 500 millions dollars industry and the forecast is that it will get much much worst. Can a 35 millions people country supply medical care for a 300 millions people country? Don't think so, so where does that leaves us?

I am not directly asking you for any particular reason, I am just stating that border problems are not jus trelated to immigrations. I pay close to 50% in taxe a year (yes, this is probably the most taxed region in NA) and it's really frustrating when I have to wait 6 months for a medical consultation because the lineups just go on and on and on, partly because of what I described above.

 

[Sneakypants]

Sneakypants, since you are so against the Illigal Immigration for different reason, let me ask you this, what about you Americans crossig over to the Canada to get free medical consultations and surgery, with illegal Medical Cards, then going back home to enjoy their renewed health.

Or what about medical supplies and drugs (in a medical term) being sold from Canada to the US, because for some reason they are cheaper here. It represented last year a 500 millions dollars industry and the forecast is that it will get much much worst. Can a 35 millions people country supply medical care for a 300 millions people country? Don't think so, so where does that leaves us?

I am not directly asking you for any particular reason, I am just stating that border problems are not jus trelated to immigrations. I pay close to 50% in taxe a year (yes, this is probably the most taxed region in NA) and it's really frustrating when I have to wait 6 months for a medical consultation because the lineups just go on and on and on, partly because of what I described above.

I don't do this myself, and if I did I would understand and accept the consequences prior to any action. As for the fact that it happens, your gov't has a particular sentiment about it and you do.
I am writing in defense of America specifically, and specifically to the issue of illegal immigration.

I would not have nearly as much of an issue with someone from Mexico coming across the border to get something and go back home. So long as they are "checked in" properly, why do I care as long as they live by the U.S. laws while here?