Interesting Look at the Media's Katrina coverage...

[Firestreak]

I'll just let people read the article themself and come to their own conclusions.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2315076.html?page=1&c=y

 

[Mokk]

I'ma have to go on record and say i, indeed, was taken in by the media hype/frenzy however it's hard not to do in these days. The media over-reaction being what it was still did call a few things to the attention of people who otherwise wouldn't have cared about governmental reaction to anything, which is both good and bad IMO.

If you didn't care beforehand why get on the cross after the fact. Hindsight's 20/20 and in my case i'll have to go with an appology to those i went well over the line with on the boards on this issue as it was unfolding.

 

[Rones]

Good article. Funny, I seem to remember taking lots of heat defending the government's response back shortly after the event.

 

[Firestreak]

Cause it's the hip thing for the kids to hate on the government.

 

[Mokk]

Cause it's the hip thing for the kids to hate on the government.

You'd do well to note that hating the government has been cool for at least the last half a century ... those damn kids sure are old these days.

Wether or not it was hyped the fact that the ball was dropped on multiple levels by multiple governments is still as concrete today as it was right then.

 

[Darkdante]

“Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government,”

GOVERNMENT RESPONDED RAPIDLY

OoooooK, I guess we should believe Popular Mechanics over the President now.

 

[Trippyhippy]

It is disheartening that you have to post an article from popular mechanics to keep conservatives from calling you a dirty liberal liar.

Not an AP article, or something from NY times, Washington Post, CNN....

Popular mechanics... they have the real story. Maybe we should get them on JFK so we'll know who really killed him.

 

[Bigboy]

There is something to be desired when determining the credibilty of this source. Wrong or not, its just an auto magazine.

 

[Firestreak]

It is disheartening that you have to post an article from popular mechanics to keep conservatives from calling you a dirty liberal liar.

Not an AP article, or something from NY times, Washington Post, CNN....

Popular mechanics... they have the real story. Maybe we should get them on JFK so we'll know who really killed him.

Why would conservatives call me a dirty liberal liar? All I've tried to show is the media coverage of this event has been terrible.

There is something to be desired when determining the credibilty of this source. Wrong or not, its just an auto magazine.

It is not. It has an automotive section, but it's an engineering magazine. Having taken some engineering courses, I am well aware of some of the focuses of structural engineers. Dealing with phenonema like floods is part of their job. Understanding the environment around you is also very important for engineers, especially when trying to develop a plumbing system to cleanly rid yourself of human waste. Engineers had been warning about the potential for the flood for years, and it fell on deaf ears. One of army corps of engineering's potential solutions that would have prevented this was not implemented because of environmentalist complaints. It's all in the article.

Any other information provided, was a listing of solid facts. How many oil rigs were damaged for example, and how many there were total. How many shootings there were total. Interprete the stories you were hearing from the mainstream media versus the facts and come up with your own conclusions.

OoooooK, I guess we should believe Popular Mechanics over the President now.

When a person gets killed, there's a problem. But accurate information is better than making up stories. Especially if information about a blood bath and a city wide shoot out slows down the rescue efforts because the rescue workers think need armed protection where they go.

Also I remember hearing all these stories about the police and army going around shooting black people, which... once again, didn't happen. When you make up stories about racism(not saying that all racism is made up stories), it creates an element of distrust to a people who at the time of this crisis needed to trust the goverment most then than ever.

 

[Ranpha]

It would have been a different perspective from anyone who was in the area of affect.

If anyone paid attention to any of the local news in the whole gulf coast area, they gave this storm more attention than the other storms that have hit before. There was a press release from the mayor of New Orleans saying to leave the city within so many hours. As Popular Mechanics article says, they made all the interstate traffic going in one direction. This also goes as far into other joining states as well. Alabama has always made it a priority to turn I-65 into North only up to Montgomery.

One thing not noted in here is trying to leave with permission from a job school. Most of the time, any closings or shutdowns are not announced until it is too late. There are no set standards in these businesses of when to shutdown effectively. Sometimes, people evacuate without permission and take the consequences afterwards.

Most people in the area are used to the tropical season as minor storms and not anything that involves too much aftermath. Rainfall of six inches or more is typical to those living on the Gulf Coast. Post-hurricane, there are twigs and power outages for up to a week and that is normal. The previous hurricanes apparently changed a few minds about preparation after the series of hurricanes in 2004. There were life-impacting hurricanes before Katrina. They do not get much press attention.

The problem was that lots of people think that, "Oh this will blow over," or "This will never happen here. There has not been a storm in x years."

Cable stations were out. If anyone had cable, it was the local news with 24 hour coverage of what was going on. It was a media overload. There was some footage of New Orleans but it was a lot of hearsay. A good number of the people experience mental and physical stress from the aftermath. Maybe from not having a bath or feeling clean for so many days, when will they get an actual meal (even buy something from a fast food restaurant), cabin fever, how to get in contact with the insurance company, etc. It really is hard to explain how people are afterwards. For the most part, a storm can bring out the best or the worst in people.

The positioning of some of the housing and businesses on New Orleans are built on drained swamps. Whenever heavy rain occurs, these areas tend to flood. There is a reason why graves in New Orleans are built above ground. Not to mention that the city is surrounded by three bodies of water (Atlantic Ocean, Lake Ponchtrain, and the Mississippi River). Most residents know that there is a risk for living on swamp land.

Also I found this hit close to home:

Quote:
NEXT TIME: Folks in Tornado Alley and along the San Andreas fault don't get federally backed insurance, so why should taxpayers subsidize coastal homes, many of them vacation properties? Before we start rebuilding "bigger and better," Congress should reform the flood insurance program. A good start: Structure premiums so the program is actuarially sound and clamps down on repetitive claims.
-End Quote

There are some Florida beach properties that do not pay taxes. Not the wood shacks in the sand. These are the multi-million dollar homes and condominiums. When their homes a destroyed, tax money is used to replace them. Pretty sweet deal if you own a beach home. The problem is, in order to keep this up, prices in the area rise to compensate for rebuilding the million dollar homes. While in the process of cleaning up, the people who actually live in these homes year round need a place to live. Thus why properties anywhere close by or in joining cities have had a price surge for housing and real estate. Any jobs that are needed to be brought in from other states (more roofers, carpenters, insurance agents, etc.), also need places for their workers to stay, thus more demand for housing.

Insurance costs and premiums have escalated in the area. (Note: FEMA pays for things without insurance). Trying to get claims has been harder and a good handful of insurance will play the run-around game. If it was a flood, flood insurance will say that the damage was caused by wind; wind insurance will say that it is flood; and so forth.

As the article indicates, it would be best if people would not keep trying to live on the coast environmentally. It is not going to happen. Last December, a friend of mine and I drove through Perdido Key. There used to be nothing there, maybe a few condominiums. After the last series of hurricanes, they have already started building more towers to the point where the beach is not visible from the road. Tourism is really the only industry that helps the gulf coast strive. That is why so many people fight and take the costs to pump the sand back on the beaches and to restore the sea dunes.

It is going to take years to rebuild. Some businesses have been lost forever while others may start anew. There might be new policies, procedures, and laws that go into effect. The trees bend a different and eerie way.

Interesting read nevertheless.

 

[Darkdante]

When a person gets killed, there's a problem. But accurate information is better than making up stories. Especially if information about a blood bath and a city wide shoot out slows down the rescue efforts because the rescue workers think need armed protection where they go.

Also I remember hearing all these stories about the police and army going around shooting black people, which... once again, didn't happen. When you make up stories about racism(not saying that all racism is made up stories), it creates an element of distrust to a people who at the time of this crisis needed to trust the goverment most then than ever.

Very true indeed.

There is however a flipside to this. If those stories did not surface and rescuers went in unprepared, what would have happened then? I'm sure the sniper fire that went on when evacuating that hospitol might have had more casualites. Being prepared is never a bad thing.

 

[Firestreak]

I don't think you read this article very carefull, so i'll refer you to page 7.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2315076.html?page=7&c=y

Both public officials and the press passed along lurid tales of post-Katrina mayhem: shootouts in the Superdome, bodies stacked in a convention center freezer, snipers firing on rescue helicopters. And those accounts appear to have affected rescue efforts as first responders shifted resources from saving lives to protecting rescuers. In reality, although looting and other property crimes were widespread after the flooding on Monday, Aug. 29, almost none of the stories about violent crime turned out to be true. Col. Thomas Beron, the National Guard commander of Task Force Orleans, arrived at the Superdome on Aug. 29 and took command of 400 soldiers. He told PM that when the Dome's main power failed around 5 am, "it became a hot, humid, miserable place. There was some pushing, people were irritable. There was one attempted rape that the New Orleans police stopped."

The only confirmed account of a weapon discharge occurred when Louisiana Guardsman Chris Watt was jumped by an assailant and, during the chaotic arrest, accidently shot himself in the leg with his own M-16.

When the Superdome was finally cleared, six bodies were found--not the 200 speculated. Four people had died of natural causes; one was ruled a suicide, and another a drug overdose. Of the four bodies recovered at the convention center, three had died of natural causes; the fourth had sustained stab wounds.

Anarchy in the streets? "The vast majority of people [looting] were taking food and water to live," says Capt. Marlon Defillo, the New Orleans Police Department's commander of public affairs. "There were no killings, not one murder." As for sniper fire: No bullet holes were found in the fuselage of any rescue helicopter.

Make sure you read that part closely. There was no threat to the rescue workers. It was all made up. People were drowning to death, and rescue workers had to slow down and shift some effort onto protecting themselves from violence for no reason!

 

[Darkdante]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/KKEE-6FVRCZ?OpenDocument

I don't think the people quoted in the articles are liers.

 

[Firestreak]

You wouldn't think so, but those snipings never happened.

 

[Rones]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/KKEE-6FVRCZ?OpenDocument

I don't think the people quoted in the articles are liers.

I would question the validty of those articles. They also reference other events we know are false now such as:

He described scenes of lawlessness and desperation, with people simply dragging corpses into corners.
...
A humanitarian catastrophe unfolded at the convention center, where thousands of increasingly frustrated people waited for help amid dead bodies, feces and garbage.

There were only six deaths at the super dome which is where the man was that was quoted in the first part, and there were only four deaths at the convention center. Media quoted anyone to get extreme sensationalist articles out right after the event.

We are talking about New Orleans here...a handgun going off is not unheard of there, yet under these conditions it causes people to panic and claim they were under 'sniper fire'.

 

[Darkdante]

Put all the QCDNers into a room, 6 of us die and nobody comes to help us.
We gotta drag the body into a corner because no one is there to help.
This is not corpses being dragged into a corner? I dunno about you but I"m not used to seeing people die in front of me.

The body count as far as I know was in the thousands. If you walked around town today and saw at least 2 corpses you wouldn't say the same thing? You make it sound as if thousands of corpses happens everyday.

Why would they need national gaurd troops in flak jackets? As much as I agree with you in that the media exaggarates things to sell media, I agree that your exaggerating things to prove your point.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.impact/index.html
Heres one where police shot 5 guys trying to snipe a construction crew.

 

[Rones]

The body count as far as I know was in the thousands.

1077 died in Lousiana. Saying thousands is deceptive exageration.

This is not corpses being dragged into a corner? I dunno about you but I"m not used to seeing people die in front of me.

Its deceptive, making it sound as if it was a frequent problem at the location. Much along the lines used in other articles of stacks of corpses which actually didn't happen. What you really have is 1,000 people reporting the same 4 dead bodies they all saw. To the reporter taking quotes, it sounds like a massacer because everyone is seeing dead bodies. Given the circumstances, it is an understandable mistake.

Initial AP reports had wrongly indicated that the contractors themselves were shot by police.

Yeah, that article instills much confidence. Now if you have some articles discussing shootings processed after the immidiate incident, I would like to see them. With so many snipers, surely we would hear about them going through court and trials. Media drools over lesser court incidents regularly, and something like that would get lots of attention. People would love to see one of these 'evil snipers' get prosecuted and punished.

 

[Darkdante]

1077 died in Lousiana. Saying thousands is deceptive exageration.

What does thousands mean? Meaning numbering in the thousands and not the hundreds.

How is that deceptive? Are you saying if it was 2,000 its ok to call it thousands? How bout 3 thousand? They all thousand arn't they?

I get what your saying but you are trying too hard to downplay things, when deaths get into the thousands does it make any sense to try to downplay it anymore?

Its deceptive, making it sound as if it was a frequent problem at the location. Much along the lines used in other articles of stacks of corpses which actually didn't happen. What you really have is 1,000 people reporting the same 4 dead bodies they all saw. To the reporter taking quotes, it sounds like a massacer because everyone is seeing dead bodies. Given the circumstances, it is an understandable mistake.

1,400 dead is not a massacre to you? How about the 1,700 still missing?
http://www.dhh.louisiana.gov/offices/page.asp?ID=192&Detail=5248

In my opinion you like many others in today's world has become desensitized to death and destruction. And that is a pretty sad thing.

Yeah, that article instills much confidence. Now if you have some articles discussing shootings processed after the immidiate incident, I would like to see them. With so many snipers, surely we would hear about them going through court and trials. Media drools over lesser court incidents regularly, and something like that would get lots of attention. People would love to see one of these 'evil snipers' get prosecuted and punished.

Proceedings? You mean like a police report? With thousands of corpses out on the street you think thier going to stop to put out a police report? How they gonna do that with their police station 20 blocks down river?

Do a search on Danziger Bridge.

 

[Rones]

What does thousands mean? Meaning numbering in the thousands and not the hundreds.

"Thousands" implies multiple thousand. Eg: At least 2,000. In this case, the proper thing to say is thousand, not thousands.

In my opinion you like many others in today's world has become desensitized to death and destruction. And that is a pretty sad thing.

How am I desenitzied? I under the concept of so much death. I was the one pointing out just how many died in WW2 the other thread recently because no one seems to comprehend it. Yes, the event is bad, but it is nowhere near as bad as the media made it out be. We did not have the 50k to 60k deaths the media was telling us. As far as deaths go for disasters, this is very light. The tsunami in the Indian Ocean killed between 162,530 and 228,771.

However, Stalin might have said it best. One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.

Proceedings? You mean like a police report? With thousands of corpses out on the street you think thier going to stop to put out a police report? How they gonna do that with their police station 20 blocks down river?

Unless they killed everyone on sight, the police would have arrested some of these 'snipers'. One of our constitutional rights is a speedy trial, meaning these people went to court at some point or are in the system atm. The police have had plenty of time to file the paper work in the 7 months since the event.

I did a search for that bridge, all I can find is the exact same word-for-word article repasted everywhere. If I could find different reports describing the same event I would be tempted to believe it. I could also not find any further article to substaniate or confirm that article. If it was true, I would expect follow up reports about how the shooters families are suing the city. :wink:

 

[Darkdante]

They got 1,700 people that probably want to be found and you think thier gonna find 5 guys that don't want to be? lol

You are getting too analytical for your own good Rones. Go out and have a beer or something.