It would have been here sooner or later.....

[Drecan]

Ok last couple of days I've gone back to leveling my rdm for only God knows why. But anyways lately for some reason or another why does it seem like someone always has to spam <Refresh> <Please>.

Usually I will let the first one sly but once it comes up again for a second time. That is when I will tell the person the way I work the refresh line and stuff like that. Sometimes I'll let the leader know that if it comes up for a third time I'm warping out of the group. At least sometimes I'm conciderate about it lol.

I put this on the flameboard cause I know this could get ugly with this topic, and so people that I've pissed in game and freely take their shots at me. But my question is 'Am I in the wrong for doing what I'm doing?'

-Dre

 

[Mr.Wonko]

Not if you are usually consistent with your refresh cycle. I've partied with some rdms, though, whose identities are protected by my sheer lack of recollection, who seemed to only want to melee and never refresh, dispel, or even backup heal without being wheedled.

 

[Drecan]

NO i tend to stay on cycle with the refresh. Sometimes previous refresh will wear while I'm in mid cast on that person lol dunno how that works out most of the time.

But yeah I tend to keep my refresh on track.

This is what I do:

Refresh self
Enfeeb about 3 spells
refresh WHM
2 elemental Enfeebs
Refresh PLD
random spells
refresh (drk, blm, brd whoever has mp)
Rinse and Repeat as needed!

 

[Noxxx]

As a pld, i almost never ask for refresh during a fight. If i'm with a new rdm I'll usually discuss it with him before the party starts.

Personally I think pld>whm in the refresh order for several reasons
We have less mp for starters, so we run out faster, making refresh more important. Our cures are dual purpose, used both to restore our hp and generate hate, making the mp we use for cures more important that the same amount of mp used for the same spells coming from a whm, who only cures to restore hp. Also, in a pinch a whm can always rest before the mob is dead, where a pld sometimes can't rest at all. And, at 51+ the whm can switch to a drk staff to get even faster resting mp restoration, where a pld may be saving tp and not want to be switching weapons.

But back on topic, I agree that with a set refresh cycle in place theres no need for people to be bothering the rdm with refresh requests. All this does is throw the cycle off and annoy the rdm. :?

 

[CubsWoo]

I tend to agree with Noxxx here - PLD in most cases should get the Refresh before a WHM. As he said, WHMs have a higher mana pool and will be more apt to use a Dark Staff and/or MP regen+ food to help through downtime.

My Refresh ladder (should I ever do RDM again) would be Self/PLD/WHM/Everyone else/BLM. BLM already has Conserve MP and the best Clear Mind trait - plus, if they're using all their MP every fight, they're a cure sponge due to stealing hate or are using the wrong spells.

I'm glad you actually enfeeble, though - even at these levels finding a RDM that can multitask is much harder than I thought. They either Refresh but don't enfeeble or enfeeble but are slow as hell on the Refresh. And most of them melee. My last parser had the RDM doing less than 2dps over a 2.5 hour party. I was out DPSing him, and I was, for all intents and purposes, the main healer. Pathetic.

This is the reason a lot of people bother RDMs for Dispel and Refresh - because we don't trust them to do it on their own. Personally, if I see a Rhino Guard/Cocoon/etc animation (I have those effects filtered) and 10+ seconds go by without a Dispel, I'm gonna ask for one, because the RDM is now killing the party's XP with their laziness. As for Refresh, I don't ask for it, but I start bitching in LS or to myself if I go 4 or 5 fights without it. I don't mind being the last one on the ladder, but I do have a lot of MP to get back (2-3 blood pacts per fight is 300 MP, plus heals and status effects.) My Auto-Refresh is 1MP/3seconds. It's not always enough.

 

[Eni]

i pt'd with you twice

once in Garlaige Citadel... once in B. Tree

you warped out both times........................................................

i dont remember what happened at Garlaige Citadel... but today was simply wrong

pld asked you once.... waited... then asked again..... waited.... and asked again..... he didnt spam "refresh please" ten in a row or anything.... and you tell him to "kiss my ass" and warp?? that's rude and wrong

oh btw after you left, we got a samurai and almost everyone lvl'd up

you need to fix your refresh cycle or something

 

[vang]

i pt'd with you twice

once in Garlaige Citadel... once in B. Tree

you warped out both times........................................................

i dont remember what happened at Garlaige Citadel... but today was simply wrong

pld asked you once.... waited... then asked again..... waited.... and asked again..... he didnt spam "refresh please" ten in a row or anything.... and you tell him to "kiss my ass" and warp?? that's rude and wrong

oh btw after you left, we got a samurai and almost everyone lvl'd up

you need to fix your refresh cycle or something

hahaha busted!



Warping out on a party, what a retard...I sure hope this wasn't during battle. Kind of like all the trendy Rangers, dont play the fucking job if you dont know what you are doing.

 

[alanon]

As a pld, i almost never ask for refresh during a fight. If i'm with a new rdm I'll usually discuss it with him before the party starts.

Personally I think pld>whm in the refresh order for several reasons
We have less mp for starters, so we run out faster, making refresh more important. Our cures are dual purpose, used both to restore our hp and generate hate, making the mp we use for cures more important that the same amount of mp used for the same spells coming from a whm, who only cures to restore hp. Also, in a pinch a whm can always rest before the mob is dead, where a pld sometimes can't rest at all. And, at 51+ the whm can switch to a drk staff to get even faster resting mp restoration, where a pld may be saving tp and not want to be switching weapons.

But back on topic, I agree that with a set refresh cycle in place theres no need for people to be bothering the rdm with refresh requests. All this does is throw the cycle off and annoy the rdm. :?

I sooooooo disagree with this statement. I got into a pickup party friday and the Pld must have had the same philosophy. He would just stand there after battle. I finally got upset (I am one who is usually silent if I notice something wrong) an I asked him why he wasnt resting. Immediately the Rdm answers for him "He's saving for 300% spirits within duh!".

This is an extremely dumb philosophy. As a result he was super conservitive with mp and rarely cured himself so hate would regularly be bouncin all over the place. The drk got smacked, the whm got smacked, I got smacked. I was the only one in the party dealing any real damage and I had to hold waaaay back. This of course made the fights take longer resulting in maybe 7k xp in 3 hours. Spirits within is nice, but it's just not worth it.

Oh and Vang, as a woodworker Im making a nice living off of the trendy Rngs, so keep em coming! :lol:

 

[Aubrie]

Drecan, I think you do need to switch up your cycle to PLD first. With my static for a while I was refreshing the Whm first Pld second and it made it hard for him to keep mp during the whole fight. I changed to Pld first then Whm and we haven't had too many problems since. Half the time he doesn't even need to rest. I have a total of 5 out of 6 people in the static i'm in to refresh at one point or another so quit your bitchin. Pld should get it first, in my opinion a Pld should run out or get close to running out by the end of a fight..a Whm shouldn't, so the Whm can wait 15 more seconds.

 

[Narell]

Instead of automatically warping out, why don't you just tell the person not to spam <Refresh> <please>? In a party, I'll ask for refresh, then if the rdm doesnt refresh me what do i do? Should I just wait for them to get around to it while I waste my MP? I by no means spam <Refresh>, but I also will ask more than once if I havent gotten it yet. I think you are in the wrong for warping out, b/c warping out without warning is wrong no matter what the case is. Just my opinion, but you asked.

 

[Noxxx]

As a pld, i almost never ask for refresh during a fight. If i'm with a new rdm I'll usually discuss it with him before the party starts.

Personally I think pld>whm in the refresh order for several reasons
We have less mp for starters, so we run out faster, making refresh more important. Our cures are dual purpose, used both to restore our hp and generate hate, making the mp we use for cures more important that the same amount of mp used for the same spells coming from a whm, who only cures to restore hp. Also, in a pinch a whm can always rest before the mob is dead, where a pld sometimes can't rest at all. And, at 51+ the whm can switch to a drk staff to get even faster resting mp restoration, where a pld may be saving tp and not want to be switching weapons.

But back on topic, I agree that with a set refresh cycle in place theres no need for people to be bothering the rdm with refresh requests. All this does is throw the cycle off and annoy the rdm. :?

I sooooooo disagree with this statement. I got into a pickup party friday and the Pld must have had the same philosophy. He would just stand there after battle. I finally got upset (I am one who is usually silent if I notice something wrong) an I asked him why he wasnt resting. Immediately the Rdm answers for him "He's saving for 300% spirits within duh!".

This is an extremely dumb philosophy. As a result he was super conservitive with mp and rarely cured himself so hate would regularly be bouncin all over the place. The drk got smacked, the whm got smacked, I got smacked. I was the only one in the party dealing any real damage and I had to hold waaaay back. This of course made the fights take longer resulting in maybe 7k xp in 3 hours. Spirits within is nice, but it's just not worth it.

Oh and Vang, as a woodworker Im making a nice living off of the trendy Rngs, so keep em coming! :lol:

There is a big difference between not resting at all, and not switching weapons to rest. A pld saving for spirits, or to be part of a skillchain can still rest between fights, but they can't be switching weapons after every fight. Read what you bolded again And i think you'll find that you don't really disagree with me, I never said the pld shouldn't rest.

 

[Drecan]

I shall try the pld first but I think its crap for them to even ask for it anyways.

3 mp per tick = 1 cure I every 3 seconds. Big help there buddy.

Aslo Eni if you were paying attention to the freaken text. He was asking for it just after I already started my cycle and right after I had casted it on myself or someone else.

Also about this whole resting in between battles the one I feel that has mp and shouldn't rest is the drk cause their tp is full what about once every 1 and 1/2 battles or so depending on equipment. Even if pld's had refresh on they would still need to rest to fill up thier mp for more hate control. The pld in our party last night with Eni wouldn't rest cause he wanted his 300% tp. Fine the next party I get into and I have this problem with I'm just going to go out and melee instead of standing on the sidelines. And actually pretend my whole 4point damage actually does something.

Guess I'm not going to take to this job to end-game like I thought I was oging to, I'll just go blm from now on and not have to worry about giving out refreshes.

-Dre :evil:

 

[Drecan]

I shall try the pld first but I think its crap for them to even ask for it anyways.

3 mp per tick = 1 cure I every 3 seconds. Big help there buddy.

Aslo Eni if you were paying attention to the freaken text. He was asking for it just after I already started my cycle and right after I had casted it on myself or someone else.

Also about this whole resting in between battles the one I feel that has mp and shouldn't rest is the drk cause their tp is full what about once every 1 and 1/2 battles or so depending on equipment. Even if pld's had refresh on they would still need to rest to fill up thier mp for more hate control. The pld in our party last night with Eni wouldn't rest cause he wanted his 300% tp. Fine the next party I get into and I have this problem with I'm just going to go out and melee instead of standing on the sidelines. And actually pretend my whole 4point damage actually does something.

Guess I'm not going to take to this job to end-game like I thought I was oging to, I'll just go blm from now on and not have to worry about giving out refreshes.

-Dre :evil:

 

[alanon]

There is a big difference between not resting at all, and not switching weapons to rest. A pld saving for spirits, or to be part of a skillchain can still rest between fights, but they can't be switching weapons after every fight. Read what you bolded again And i think you'll find that you don't really disagree with me, I never said the pld shouldn't rest.

You might want to seriously consider a Dark staff. It will depend on your setup, but in my static we got to a point where the Plds MP was the bottleneck. We kept tryin to convince him to try a dark staff and he resisted for the same reasons as you. Finally I bought him one and told him I would just resell it if he decided he didnt like it. Well it took all of 10 fights for him to decide that he really liked it and I had my gil the next day. We know fight non-stop. Note: We dont hit chain 5 and rest full, we just fight non-stop until someone has to go AFK. Just something to think about, sorry to highjack the thread.

 

[Devi]

I shall try the pld first but I think its crap for them to even ask for it anyways.

3 mp per tick = 1 cure I every 3 seconds. Big help there buddy.
Aslo Eni if you were paying attention to the freaken text. He was asking for it just after I already started my cycle and right after I had casted it on myself or someone else.

Also about this whole resting in between battles the one I feel that has mp and shouldn't rest is the drk cause their tp is full what about once every 1 and 1/2 battles or so depending on equipment. Even if pld's had refresh on they would still need to rest to fill up thier mp for more hate control. The pld in our party last night with Eni wouldn't rest cause he wanted his 300% tp. Fine the next party I get into and I have this problem with I'm just going to go out and melee instead of standing on the sidelines. And actually pretend my whole 4point damage actually does something.

Guess I'm not going to take to this job to end-game like I thought I was oging to, I'll just go blm from now on and not have to worry about giving out refreshes.

-Dre :evil:

Sometimes a Cure is the difference between holding hate and losing it.
Besides a good PLD knows to use their MP to hold hate. I can drain my 350+MP pool in one fight, I dont have to but i can, and hate won't slip. This is also why I picked up a darkstaff. PLD+refresh during a fight is good. PLD resting with Dark staff after fight is even better. PLD shouldn't be so concerned with damage this is true. But Dre, warping out on people....shamefull...you gotta be a team in this game...no one job is better than the rest. Only by working together can parties do very very very well.

 

[Jezza]

Hullo RDM Rant?

/sigh

We've been over this and over this and over this.


But here are a couple of hints that I havn't already posted ad nauseum on this topic:

1. Tell them explicitly that you can see when your spells wear. Ever notice how everyone is yelling at the whm when buffs wear? Welp, once I kindly said to the pld...I can see when my spells wear, and darn if I didn't get off a few seconds on my cycle. No worries you'll get it!" He said..oh, I didn't KNOW that. So...try that first.

2. The order matters little, in truth, because if you have a continuous cycle going - and you're using convert, enfeebles, mb wisely --- then once it's up and running..everyone that needs it should have it every time. The only person I go every other with is the drk - when they get to about half... Otherwise..unless you're seriously gimped in mana - ya might as well keep the blm up too. In crisis situations? okay..then it's kinda who ever is running desperately low - but me first - cuz how the hell do I refresh someone else when I have none.

Slightly off-topic...

I HATE BEING A RED MAGE

Why?

Because so many of us suck at it that I find pt's are inviting cuz they think they can't possibly chain without a brd or rdm...and yet they immediately start calling for refresh, dispel..whatever. It seems like ppl hate me before they've even partied with me, just on principle. Do I miss things now and then? No more than any other job. I see stuff in pt chat like "Oop, wrong macro" about once per couple of hours. Last night, I"ll admit it..I thought I was in my groove. However...I had messed up my cycle at some point and was leaving out (smack me now) the pld for one whole cycle. He called it to my attention..I even argued with him at first..then realized I was kinda flying on auto-pilot and had, in fact, missed him. I felt bad...on the other hand..others said I was doing great. Okay..so...sometimes it seems like rdm are held under such total scrutiny..

In the mean time the blm is casting Bio over my Dia..Diaga over Dia II (wtf) and missed multiple mb which I filled in. The pld was without refresh (and still had about 75% mp) for one battle..but the blm can be a total moron and no one notices.

So calls for refresh? They do it because they're used to rdm not being very good at it. Why don't all rdm do a cycle like they're "supposed to" ??? Cuz it's fucking boring. Do I do it anyway because it's my job? Hell yeah.

I wasn't going to mention names..and I"m sure there are ppl that could poke mega-fun at my gear..but if you want to understand why ppl hate us..

Note those that have lvld super fast...and just suck because pt's think they HAVE to keep even the crappiest rdm..

/check Sscdrake's gear sometime.

party with Guillotina as the sole rdm (although I hear she's improved a bit)

Now, go buy juice and chocolate, set yourself up with some good DD...and then - if the rdm or brd suck?

Tell em that and kick em out.

ARGH..late for my meeting AGAIN...

 

[ArmachiA]

I agree with the above... from what I hear most RDMs suck and when I get into a party they automaticaly assume I suck too (Well not all of them, but you know, general statement).

My refresh order is Me > WHM > PLD > BLM > Anyone else (SMN get thrown in if there one, but they're pretty rare) and I've never had a problem with it. If you keep up Refresh, the way it's given shouldn't matter.

and please don't yell at us if we haven't casted right after your refresh wears, sometime we're in the middle of another spell (Haste, Enfeebles, etc) and or are waiting for the refresh timer to go away (18 second recast time! GWAR!!! 8[ ]) ^^;

 

[Courtney]

3 mp per tick = 1 cure I every 3 seconds. Big help there buddy.
Also about this whole resting in between battles the one I feel that has mp and shouldn't rest is the drk cause their tp is full what about once every 1 and 1/2 battles or so depending on equipment. Even if pld's had refresh on they would still need to rest to fill up thier mp for more hate control. The pld in our party last night with Eni wouldn't rest cause he wanted his 300% tp. Fine the next party I get into and I have this problem with I'm just going to go out and melee instead of standing on the sidelines. -Dre :evil:

3mp/tic is 600MP every 10 minutes. It IS significant.
If the PLD doesn't keep hate, mages get squished which is why they are usually second in the Refresh order (after yourself).
I haven't seen a PLD rest between mobs in an exp party in 20 levels.
If your refresh cycle is working, you're casting refresh on someone just as, or soon after it's wearing off. Refresh can't wear off two people at the same time, it has to be at least 25 seconds apart (allowing for cooldown, and cast time). That's what the guys above mean when they mentioned fixing your refresh cycle...

 

[Xelos]

:twisted:

 

[Eni]

I shall try the pld first but I think its crap for them to even ask for it anyways.

3 mp per tick = 1 cure I every 3 seconds. Big help there buddy.

Aslo Eni if you were paying attention to the freaken text. He was asking for it just after I already started my cycle and right after I had casted it on myself or someone else.

Also about this whole resting in between battles the one I feel that has mp and shouldn't rest is the drk cause their tp is full what about once every 1 and 1/2 battles or so depending on equipment. Even if pld's had refresh on they would still need to rest to fill up thier mp for more hate control. The pld in our party last night with Eni wouldn't rest cause he wanted his 300% tp. Fine the next party I get into and I have this problem with I'm just going to go out and melee instead of standing on the sidelines. And actually pretend my whole 4point damage actually does something.

Guess I'm not going to take to this job to end-game like I thought I was oging to, I'll just go blm from now on and not have to worry about giving out refreshes.

-Dre :evil:

First of all, the pld rested after fights. He did not have dark staff but he said he was working on getting it and apologized that he didnt have one at the moment.

Second, you only had to refresh yourself, the paladin, and the white mage. Your refresh cycle was not hard to manage or change.

I'm glad that you have decided to change your job. See you around~