Kiting adds on BST.

[Mattaru]

I'm more curious if anyone has tried this to see how effective it is. It's a fairly simple concept imo, but may be going unnoticed. It basically a way to infinitely kite non NM adds while fighting HNM/NM etc.

The idea is to get a fairly buff pet from the area and just get it to get hate on all the adds, run, heel pet with all the adds maybe pop it a piece of food and logout/force dc. All adds depop with pet. Relog, rinse/repeat. Would be most effective to have one bst pick up as the other logs out though.

Thoughts are appreciated as well as any comments on whether or not people actually do this.

~taru

 

[Courtney]

With the new(ish) claim/mpk rules, it's not that simple to get the attention of adds anymore. One hit no longer does it if a mob has hate on someone else. Repeated assaulting and recalling also gets you hate, and with the mobs beating on your pet, it loses hate pretty fast, and they then come after you.

You can depop one or two mobs, but you can't clear an area...

 

[Dejan]

People totally underestimate the power and versatility of the bst job. In all my years of this server, i have almost/never have seen bst in the roster for an HNM. There are inumerous tactics a bst can take part of, helping with either adds, Mob weakness, DD or even support.

Just need to know what you're doing.

I've heard and seen reports of people using bsts vs. Tiamat for adds at night, and one or 2 did the job.
Bsts can usually take on IT mobs with ease given enough pets. So we have the power of a party or whatever in one. That can help...

Anyways, it's a pitty people don't have the versatility to use the enormous range of jobs available to endgame tactics now a days...

 

[Courtney]

We've used BST on Tiamat a number of times. Unfortunately, in most cases where adds are an issue, there aren't any pets available, and in most cases with Tough adds, jugpets suck...

In normal HNM situations, BST unfortunately suffer from the poor (damage dealt)/(TP given) ratio which handicaps most mellees. BST probably suffer a little more than most though...

 

[Zyndara]

You're talking end-game bst applications for kiting... I misunderstood and what I said doesn't really apply, so *edit-poof* don't mind me, I'm gonna step out of your way.^^

 

[Mattaru]

I think it just needs to be tested I guess. The idea came to me this weekend on a antican NM where i couldve taken a spider, linked all ants, had thf pull NM, run into a small hall and logout. When I would login the spider would be back.

Arch Corses in Attowha tend to take two antlions to kill, so generally dealin with all of them you will run out of pets I'd think. There are approximately...just out of memory...8 antlions close to tiamat area. The possibility for straight killing with a 2hrd Cave Antlion exists as well. The amount of hate needed to get the attention of the mob depends on how fast the bst works imo, its easy to take aggro and get hate (magic or otherwise) vs. mobs slept multiple multiple times. So generally adds would have alot of hate focused on one person imo if the add strategy was focused on sleeping/other outside parties killing. The obviously yes a BST would have difficulty getting hate because two differing add strats are being used at once (this is the most obvious impediment to testing). The question is what is going to be more efficient and safer. Telling a BST to do anything with a jug when a pet can be found in a fairly hi lvl area is just retarded, straight up, just don't rely on jugs.

I'm just curious when is the last time an LS had a BST main alliance with a real pet on this server in oh, the past 6 months, I'm not saying that one should or that it would do anything spectacular, but has it even been tried. A pet will stay on a kited mob better than any pc imo, BST don't pump out big numbers, we aren't sitting behind our keyboards climaxing when our rampages give full tp return, we are a DoT melee our numbers don't lie in WS, and are lesser in most SC...scythe is still questionable. They rely on the fact that we have a pet that is EM-DC to us, meleeing with us. Some say our AF shows we were meant to solo, I beg to differ, our AF shows we were meant to charm mobs in the area to fight with us in a pt situation or otherwise and since we can solo SE has never paid attn to how that ability is situational in alot of exp areas.

People in general don't know what a BST can do, and couldn't give a shit about testing it, at least on this server.

 

[kaikyaku]

Yea you never see a “bst wanted” in any endgame linkshell adds.

My friend mateo was talking about bst in endgame. He mentioned how they are needed is some areas and are in a constant demand.

All I could say is WTF? I have never seen the beast job being asked for. He was missing from the game for about a year or so.. so I wonder if times were just different then.

A couple I can think of that the job would shine at but are not asked to attend are:

Tiamat for the antlion pets.

Fafnir Nidhogg for the darters and bark spiders

If they are asked for I never caught wind of it.

 

[jamal]

A couple I can think of that the job would shine at but are not asked to attend are:

(skipped some)

Fafnir Nidhogg for the darters and bark spiders

You're not serious are you?

 

[kaikyaku]

You're not serious are you?

Very. Mind you it’s an observation… not to be confused with facts.

I troll alla’s bst forums a lot and talk with other bsts in game a lot. I’ve never seen them mentioned nor never have seen the job asked for.


Ok I’m a bit confused on what aspect you say this about????

 

[Mattaru]

BST only becomes useful as far as adds go at faf/hogg if some tard is like lawls -ga, and even then an impending massacre can only be mitigated. Generally the room is cleared during windows. Bytharwai: bst/nin has tanked fafnir lawls, its novelty, like brd tank, TA was used though.

Maybe Kaik was saying using those as pets and DDing. Which isn't a ridiculous statement, but lets throw blm and some other melee dd is probably just as effective so whatever.

Ninjar: Please don't poke fun in this topic and make vague critiques for someone who may...just...not...know, because you have been in endgame autoattacking and gearswapping longer kthxbai.

 

[kaikyaku]

says it all

In a positive ort negative way? Too many one liners

 

[kaikyaku]

Maybe Kaik was saying using those as pets and DDing. Which isn't a ridiculous statement, but lets throw blm and some other melee dd is probably just as effective so whatever.

Correct. In my mind at least it is a great attribute that isn't utilized

 

[Mattaru]

In a positive ort negative way? Too many one liners

Mai is being sarcastic. Btw Mai, alla's bst forum is one of the only respectable ones in that people don't throw mud all over each other, its a bst communitty which is almost always strong.

 

[Fonzy]

Judging by that, I don't think he's ever been to Fafhogg.


*ninja*



says it all

could you possibly be anymore condescending? I am so tired of the rude behavior and superiority complexs associated with this retarded game.

As for your assertion on the Alla board, believe it or not, it's THE most useful forums on the internet for BST advice and information, perhaps you should read it before you wave your god like power and judgement and belittle another person

 

[jamal]

Maybe Kaik was saying using those as pets and DDing. Which isn't a ridiculous statement, but lets throw blm and some other melee dd is probably just as effective so whatever.

Yes this is a ridiculous statement. And explains why BSTs are not invited to participate in events, because they do not understand what the primary objectives are in fighting things like this. You do not want to feed TP to fafnir. Melee are used to gain tp for skillchains, to produce Huge spike dmg with magic bursts. Melee Tanks are used to hold hate off of Mages who could get pounded into submission otherwise.
You basically have a threshold when it comes to melee, is it worth it to give fafnir x amount of tp to produce y amount of dmg. Also, can this Melee perform tanking responsibilities, IE survivability and Hate holding. BST do neither of these.
Add control yes, in certain circumstances. But you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the end-game HNM's properly before you just out and say "I could see a BST doing this". If you miss charm (yes its possible) a Darter, you end up mpking your entire alliance due to their linked hate. A spider would last a while, but would not produce enough dmg to hold hate from BLMs or to overcome the TP you are giving Fafhogg.

 

[Mattaru]

Yes this is a ridiculous statement. And explains why BSTs are not invited to participate in events, because they do not understand what the primary objectives are in fighting things like this. You do not want to feed TP to fafnir. Melee are used to gain tp for skillchains, to produce Huge spike dmg with magic bursts. Melee Tanks are used to hold hate off of Mages who could get pounded into submission otherwise.
You basically have a threshold when it comes to melee, is it worth it to give fafnir x amount of tp to produce y amount of dmg. Also, can this Melee perform tanking responsibilities, IE survivability and Hate holding. BST do neither of these.
Add control yes, in certain circumstances. But you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the end-game HNM's properly before you just out and say "I could see a BST doing this". If you miss charm (yes its possible) a Darter, you end up mpking your entire alliance due to their linked hate. A spider would last a while, but would not produce enough dmg to hold hate from BLMs or to overcome the TP you are giving Fafhogg.

I understand the need to reduce TP. Its one of the biggest issues dealing with any HNM all BST that has an AoE tp-move. Because its a quick way to wipe.

Yet, you failed to realize that I did note that a BST HAS TANKED FAFNIR BEFORE (ref. Keftenks Guttler thread on BG where a diverging topic goes into BST tanking), so it at least has the ability to hold hate which is one criteria for usefullness that YOU provide, which is just fucking nuts and says tons about the versatility since it can also specialize in reducing hate against it. A mischarmed pet that gathers links only links to you unless someone else f'd up before, and I'm sure you know what it means to swap in and out of an alliance. Simple, if a new pet is needed, drop out, get pet, reinvite.

Secondly, DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TP/HATE RATIO for a BST w/ a pet on an HNM. I don't, you don't WHICH GOES BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND: TEST SHIT and don't just assume. I've had mediocre pets that hold hate better than another melee, not even a good pet, I'm not saying this would carry over into HNMs, but who knows, I don't know, but I'm willing to try.

 

[Miros]

I understand the need to reduce TP. Its one of the biggest issues dealing with any HNM all BST that has an AoE tp-move. Because its a quick way to wipe.

Yet, you failed to realize that I did note that a BST HAS TANKED FAFNIR BEFORE (ref. Keftenks Guttler thread on BG where a diverging topic goes into BST tanking), so it at least has the ability to hold hate which is one criteria for usefullness that YOU provide, which is just fucking nuts and says tons about the versatility since it can also specialize in reducing hate against it. A mischarmed pet that gathers links only links to you unless someone else f'd up before, and I'm sure you know what it means to swap in and out of an alliance. Simple, if a new pet is needed, drop out, get pet, reinvite.

Secondly, DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TP/HATE RATIO for a BST w/ a pet on an HNM. I don't, you don't WHICH GOES BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND: TEST SHIT and don't just assume. I've had mediocre pets that hold hate better than another melee, not even a good pet, I'm not saying this would carry over into HNMs, but who knows, I don't know, but I'm willing to try.

An all BST LS has taken down Kirin on other servers...Tiamat on others, why can't they do Fafhogg?

 

[Mattaru]

An all BST LS has taken down Kirin on other servers...Tiamat on others, why can't they do Fafhogg?

Depends on time Miros, don't want it to go hyper.

 

[Jereme]

Matt dropping from alliance and coming back over and over when u need a new pet just isn't going to be worth the time. There is also always the chance of someone catchin you with blockaid down then cure bombing you until fafhogg flails. The flies in the aery have there own rule for some reason once one person in the alliance gets hate everyone has hate.

 

[Mattaru]

Matt dropping from alliance and coming back over and over when u need a new pet just isn't going to be worth the time. There is also always the chance of someone catchin you with blockaid down then cure bombing you until fafhogg flails. The flies in the aery have there own rule for some reason once one person in the alliance gets hate everyone has hate.

Unless my pet is pulling more hate than a tank, swapping may happen...once. Pets have a retarded amount of hp. I don't see how someone catching me with blockaid down doesn't differ from any other member occuring in a curebomb and mazurka spam.