Leaders/Members of Effortless Dynamis may want to step up.

:???:
 
Bigboy said:
:???:
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Lol, they are talking about the term "Big Boys"
 
Zethren said:
Thats the end of that. They are in with 12 people. Come on now...
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That's pretty rude. Nobody heard from Effortless' officers last night?
 
I really hate to do it, but I am going to play devil's advocate here. What gives you the right to decide that zone is yours? Being an older shell? QCDN? The amount of members in your shell? WHat? And isn't ironic that a majority of the people claiming you have the right to claim the zone are the same people who always say "If it's yellow, it's free game"? I know it's all about courtesy, but people are in no way forced to show any courtesy whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what happened, but you are in no way on any moral high ground here. You have just as much a right to that zone as they did and it just so happens they took it before you. That's the way the game is made and if you disagree, you have various choices to deal with it.

And punishment? So you have the authority or power to punish someone else in game for a percieved attack on your shell? That's laughable at best. You have no right. Again, you act as if that zone is yours when it's not. Unless SE suddenly makes entrance into dynamis a scheduled event like Brenner or Ballista, you have no authority to claim any zone no matter how hard you try. Yes, this was a bad move on their part and I wouldn't wish the same thing to happen to me, but how you act from here on out will determine how the other shell will respond. If you are determined to act all smug and superior when you have no clear right to do so, I don't think you'll get very far.

I'm sure this isn't the end of it. Someone will probably try to prevent their entrance into dynamis as revenge for ruining Monday's run. And then, the other shell will do something again. And on and on and on. Or perhaps you could all act civilly and come to some sort of compromise that works for everyone.
 
Lavi said:
I really hate to do it, but I am going to play devil's advocate here. What gives you the right to decide that zone is yours? Being an older shell? QCDN? The amount of members in your shell? WHat? And isn't ironic that a majority of the people claiming you have the right to claim the zone are the same people who always say "If it's yellow, it's free game"? I know it's all about courtesy, but people are in no way forced to show any courtesy whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what happened, but you are in no way on any moral high ground here. You have just as much a right to that zone as they did and it just so happens they took it before you. That's the way the game is made and if you disagree, you have various choices to deal with it.

And punishment? So you have the authority or power to punish someone else in game for a percieved attack on your shell? That's laughable at best. You have no right. Again, you act as if that zone is yours when it's not. Unless SE suddenly makes entrance into dynamis a scheduled event like Brenner or Ballista, you have no authority to claim any zone no matter how hard you try. Yes, this was a bad move on their part and I wouldn't wish the same thing to happen to me, but how you act from here on out will determine how the other shell will respond. If you are determined to act all smug and superior when you have no clear right to do so, I don't think you'll get very far.

I'm sure this isn't the end of it. Someone will probably try to prevent their entrance into dynamis as revenge for ruining Monday's run. And then, the other shell will do something again. And on and on and on. Or perhaps you could all act civilly and come to some sort of compromise that works for everyone.
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By respecting other linkshells and the community rules by scheduling the zone with everyone else. It's his zone, just like the other zones scheduled belonged to those linkshells. Stop acting like expecting people to respect the schedule is a bad thing. There is no reason for competition between linkshells for dynamis, so your comparison to claming mobs doesn't work. You don't like cythe's linkshell, fine, but stop trolling threads about it.
 
Lavi said:
Or perhaps you could all act civilly and come to some sort of compromise that works for everyone.
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Hmm I thought thats what the Dynamis scheduling was for. For Linkshells to act civial and respect eachothers wishes to do which zone on which night... Guess I was wrong ; ;
 
Calv/Godofdeath said:
Hmm I thought thats what the Dynamis scheduling was for. For Linkshells to act civial and respect eachothers wishes to do which zone on which night... Guess I was wrong ; ;
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no, you're dead right. That's why if a LS wants to do a zone at the same night and at least gives notice before hand with enough time one LS will make a change for the other. I know cause I have seen it happen. I know cause I've changed lolDynamis schedule a few times before because another LS wanted the zones. OTher times they changed for us because we needed to get that zone cleared outta the way. It's been a civil way of handling things for several months now.
 
Bajaratt said:
By respecting other linkshells and the community rules by scheduling the zone with everyone else. It's his zone, just like the other zones scheduled belonged to those linkshells. Stop acting like expecting people to respect the schedule is a bad thing. There is no reason for competition between linkshells for dynamis, so your comparison to claming mobs doesn't work. You don't like cythe's linkshell, fine, but stop trolling threads about it.
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Huh? Trolling? What the fuck are you talking about? Baja, I don't know what the hell you are talking about, but if I disagree in a public (read: PUBLIC) forum, it's my choice. If I disagree with anything, I have just as much a right to post as you do in consent so get off the high horse. I resent the fact you pass off anything in dissent of your opinion as trolling. I didn't say I agreed with them (if you had the ability to read, you'd notice I said I didn't). But you have to admit, this is all about what YOU want. YOU didn't get YOUR way, so YOU'RE angry. Can I suddenly call the next Nidhogg and say I have a right to ownership? When I go to experience camps, can no one else camp on top of me since I was there first? So why is dynamis special? And this IS the same thing as exp mobs. It looks like dynamis IS getting crowded and shells are going to either work together to improve or start competing.

All I am suggesting is you don't have any right beyond common courtesy and as we all know, common courtesy is very lacking especially in an online community. No one is forced to show courtesy nor should they be expected to. I'll give you an example. I hold the door for anyone and everyone behind me and sometimes even in front of me. I'll hold the door no longer than a few seconds if the person is close and should they need me to assist them with the door (wheelchair bound person), I will hold it as long as it takes them to get through the door. I think it's common courtesy. It annoys me that no one else thinks it's polite to do it anymore. Do you think I'd attack someone over it though? No. Would I have a right to do it? No. No one is morally obligated to just like no one is obligated to follow that schedule.

And you didn't really answer the question, what gives you the right? Hiding behind the words community and expecting it to bind everyone by some law. You're suggesting QCDN is the standard and it's not. Nothing on QCDN is set in stone. Nothing. It's a tool to help everyone out, nothing more. It doesn't provide you a guarantee, it doesn't provide any sort of in game functionality beyond making scheduling smoother. And all those schedules are subject to change according to in game conflicts. Well guess what? A conflict arose. Had this been a JP shell what would have happened? You'd be annoyed and done nothing. Well, it's a NA claiming ignorance and suddenly it's unforgivable.

I'm not suggesting you forgive them for it, I know I wouldn't. I'd hold it against them and maybe even all the members of the shell, but you have absolutely no right nor any power to do anything against them. At least not directly. You can prevent them from running during your times in the future or make their times during dynamis that much harder, but should you take action like a GM call or perhaps MPK, you'd have no legitimate standing at all. They used the game as it was designed; nothing more, nothing less. Again, I don't agree with it and I hope it gets worked out because this serves to benefit no one, but to stand here as if QCDN is if everything scheduled on QCDN is law is rather stupid.
 
Disagreeing is one thing, the personal attacks in two separate threads is another, hence trolling. If anyone was coming off as smug and superior it was you, posting crap that didn't really have a place in the thread.

And has already been pointed out, your "solution" has been implemented for months and the new linkshell ignoring it was the cuase of this thread. Do you bother to actually read the whole thread, or just post wildly?
 
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Lavi said:
No one is forced to show courtesy nor should they be expected to.
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frankly, I think courtesy should be expected of people and if it's not shown then it should be pointed out to the person, calmly at first, but harsher if it continues. Courtesy should be expected from everyone like it used to be in the past. It's because people think courtesy shouldn't be expected nor rewarded with kind words or anything that there are problems and growing problems. Frankly, more courtesy would be nice and, when I'm with my friends, I expect courtesy from them and from myself.
 
Lavi said:
But you have to admit, this is all about what YOU want. YOU didn't get YOUR way, so YOU'RE angry.
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No this isn't about what -I- want, this is about what my SHELL wants. That's 50+ people, most of which had been rallying me to schedule a Jeuno run earlier in August, so I did. I could care less which zone we do. I have all my AF2 pieces that I want. I've beaten all of the zones minus Xarc. I want my members to be happy. And having some 13 man shell come and inconvenience my entire shell pisses me off, and it pissed off every single person in my shell as well.

I look out for my shell, and I work with others to make sure everyone is happy. If you're going to sit here and tell me changing your gather time from an hour after X shell was going to enter the same zone, to 30 minutes before they gather isn't being an ass, than I would like to know what you are smoking, and where I can get some. Argue whatever side you want, fine, but don't deny that they pulled a BS move to snake the zone out from under us, knowing full well we scheduled that zone.

I don't know why the hell you are so jaded, but spare me this non-existant courtesy crap. Dynamis Scheduling forum has worked for all of the other shells running, it can work for the new ones too. Not a very hard concept.
 
Lavi said:
But you have to admit, this is all about what YOU want. YOU didn't get YOUR way, so YOU'RE angry
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By the way, I'm not in lolDynamis, so this didn't effect my dynamis run at all. It is concerning to me, however, since I run in the same time slot and was likely to have the same situation pop up at a later date. I also didn't enjoy seeing friends get screwed over by an upstart linkshell.
 
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Calv/Godofdeath said:
Hmm I thought thats what the Dynamis scheduling was for. For Linkshells to act civial and respect eachothers wishes to do which zone on which night... Guess I was wrong ; ;
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That's all and true, but the response to the two new shells when they started was pretty much "GTFO". 6 shells all running on the same night is very difficult and it means if no one does the new CoP dynamis zones, every single zone will be full. Given that you need the 4 starter cities to gain access, it means the older 4 shells would need to stay mainly in the outlands to accomodate the new shells. They weren't exactly welcome with open arms and from the perspective of the two new shells, it's possible they do not want nor can they run on any other night. The older shells are mainly closed with no open recruiting so new shells are the only options available at this time. Looking at the schedule, 3 of the 4 main cities are taken leaving only Windy open. If the other new shell took that zone, that leaves nowhere for Effortless to enter.
 
As a person that may be affected by this in the future, I am personally asking, not expecting, Effortless (and any other new or upcoming Dynamis shells) to have the courtesy of posting your planned schedules. I think the Dynamis scheduling board was a great idea, and it's allowed TheDynamisShow to run with zero head-butts for 5-6 months.

If they will comply, everyone would appreciate it.
 
Lavi said:
That's all and true, but the response to the two new shells when they started was pretty much "GTFO". 6 shells all running on the same night is very difficult and it means if no one does the new CoP dynamis zones, every single zone will be full. Given that you need the 4 starter cities to gain access, it means the older 4 shells would need to stay mainly in the outlands to accomodate the new shells. They weren't exactly welcome with open arms and from the perspective of the two new shells, it's possible they do not want nor can they run on any other night. The older shells are mainly closed with no open recruiting so new shells are the only options available at this time. Looking at the schedule, 3 of the 4 main cities are taken leaving only Windy open. If the other new shell took that zone, that leaves nowhere for Effortless to enter.
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Once again, not our fault. We were already here. They still scheduled knowing it would be crowded. We shouldn't have to accomodate them for overcrowding. They have to deal with it, just like we have to. Two way street. I know my shell still recruits time to time, and I still have many members who want city AF2. I'm not going to keep us in northlands just because 2 new groups decided to join up and have no other option. That wouldn't be fair to my shell.

Edit: No one told them to gtfo, and to say our concerns gave that vibe is true enough, but I don't think any of you leading a shell in this position would react any differently, despite what you preach here.
 
Lavi said:
That's all and true, but the response to the two new shells when they started was pretty much "GTFO". 6 shells all running on the same night is very difficult and it means if no one does the new CoP dynamis zones, every single zone will be full. Given that you need the 4 starter cities to gain access, it means the older 4 shells would need to stay mainly in the outlands to accomodate the new shells. They weren't exactly welcome with open arms and from the perspective of the two new shells, it's possible they do not want nor can they run on any other night. The older shells are mainly closed with no open recruiting so new shells are the only options available at this time. Looking at the schedule, 3 of the 4 main cities are taken leaving only Windy open. If the other new shell took that zone, that leaves nowhere for Effortless to enter.
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Did you actually read the thread or only read metachronism's vindictive bullshit? No one said to GTFO of the time slot, hell no one even implied it. The thread was created to make the new linkshells aware of the scheduling concerns with 6 linkshells running at the same time and that they might want to consider a different time slot that was less crowded.
 
hellstorm said:
well granted what they did was low but lets look at this from there point of veiw there a new shell so that leaves them 3 zones choose from sandy bastok and jueno. By the sound of it sandy was taken and bastok is taken at a later time. Juneo is A easy city to learn and pull most shell start in jueno. They have stated that they do not come on to this site true or not i do not know. Also By the sound of it you did not try talking to leader when the problem arised or maybe you did and dwunstopable just posting to cover some tracks? I would not count on a ls rep on one incident, I mean they to have people to think of and was to left with little options to take.
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Or they could always do a little research before jumping into the zone. LS's go to the dynamis forum here, and post the zones they want for their time slots well in advance. If there's a conflict, then the conflicting shells work something out. If one shell completely skips this and goes whereever they want, they will eventually drive other shells to resort to cheap tactics such as holding a zone by wasting 1M on an hourglass, and trading it before the other shell plans to enter.
 
Cythe said:
No this isn't about what -I- want, this is about what my SHELL wants. That's 50+ people, most of which had been rallying me to schedule a Jeuno run earlier in August, so I did. I could care less which zone we do. I have all my AF2 pieces that I want. I've beaten all of the zones minus Xarc. I want my members to be happy. And having some 13 man shell come and inconvenience my entire shell pisses me off, and it pissed off every single person in my shell as well.

I look out for my shell, and I work with others to make sure everyone is happy. If you're going to sit here and tell me changing your gather time from an hour after X shell was going to enter the same zone, to 30 minutes before they gather isn't being an ass, than I would like to know what you are smoking, and where I can get some. Argue whatever side you want, fine, but don't deny that they pulled a BS move to snake the zone out from under us, knowing full well we scheduled that zone.

I don't know why the hell you are so jaded, but spare me this non-existant courtesy crap. Dynamis Scheduling forum has worked for all of the other shells running, it can work for the new ones too. Not a very hard concept.
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So who is looking out for that shell? Apparently they are looking out for their interests just like you are there for your own. So what choice did they have if they cannot enter any other day besides Monday and Friday? Either inconvenience someone else or not run.

Jaded? In what way? I think I was merely trying to give you a different opinion from your own, but hey, you want to pretend that QCDN is law, fine. But from where I am standing, it doesn't look that way, now does it? Again, QCDN is a tool for people to use. People have the choice to NOT to use it if they so wish.
 
Lavi said:
So who is looking out for that shell? Apparently they are looking out for their interests just like you are there for your own. So what choice did they have if they cannot enter any other day besides Monday and Friday? Either inconvenience someone else or not run.

Jaded? In what way? I think I was merely trying to give you a different opinion from your own, but hey, you want to pretend that QCDN is law, fine. But from where I am standing, it doesn't look that way, now does it? Again, QCDN is a tool for people to use. People have the choice to NOT to use it if they so wish.
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they are only 13 people and I know a lot of those 13 people are on a lot of other times on the week and usually just leveling. I'm sure there could be other times if need be or, since they were willing to go at 7pm EST they could have done bastok instead of jeuno and not screwed up any other LS (the only other LS doing bastok that day was gonna go in around 9:30-10:00, plenty of time for a win or atleast some farming) rather than doing the cheap shot they did. They purposely moved from one hour after to one hour before. They even were made aware of this thread and didn't work anything out.

And, so if they can't do any other day than friday and monday.. how about the 52 people in lolDynamis compared to the 13 people in that shell? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Eh? And those 13 people, so I'm told, didn't get that far anyways or achieve much. Sounded like they wasted exp (no WHM), time, and gil.
 
Lavi said:
So who is looking out for that shell? Apparently they are looking out for their interests just like you are there for your own. So what choice did they have if they cannot enter any other day besides Monday and Friday? Either inconvenience someone else or not run.
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Or work cooperatively with everyone else, give and take. Finding out someone else is doing a dynamis raid and bumping up your schedule from half an hour after they enter to an hour before they enter is just a cheap shot. You can't always get your way when you compromise, but you can get your way some of the time, and piss off a whole lot fewer people in the process.
 
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