Leaders/Members of Effortless Dynamis may want to step up.

Lavi said:
And you didn't really answer the question, what gives you the right? Hiding behind the words community and expecting it to bind everyone by some law. You're suggesting QCDN is the standard and it's not. Nothing on QCDN is set in stone. Nothing. It's a tool to help everyone out, nothing more. It doesn't provide you a guarantee, it doesn't provide any sort of in game functionality beyond making scheduling smoother. And all those schedules are subject to change according to in game conflicts. Well guess what? A conflict arose. Had this been a JP shell what would have happened? You'd be annoyed and done nothing. Well, it's a NA claiming ignorance and suddenly it's unforgivable.
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There's not a lot of reason why people don't find out JP Dynamis LS runtime schedules besides that they usually run completely different times and no one really tries. If it was important, I could easily find out ForThirdStage and CuteRiborz LS schedules but it's never been a concern. Nobody would care if new shells were running at ridiculous times like 10:23 AM or something, but that's not the case. If you're running at prime time, and you know other shells are running at prime time, you should both try to be accomodating as possible.

Just because you would/could have done nothing if a JP Dynamis LS took your spot for the night, doesn't mean that all of us would've.
 
Bajaratt said:
Did you actually read the thread or only read metachronism's vindictive bullshit? No one said to GTFO of the time slot, hell no one even implied it. The thread was created to make the new linkshells aware of the scheduling concerns with 6 linkshells running at the same time and that they might want to consider a different time slot that was less crowded.
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And yet there was only space for 1 of the 2 new shells to run in the new cities zones. Not a very welcoming jesture, now is it?

CmdrFly said:
As a person that may be affected by this in the future, I am personally asking, not expecting, Effortless (and any other new or upcoming Dynamis shells) to have the courtesy of posting your planned schedules. I think the Dynamis scheduling board was a great idea, and it's allowed TheDynamisShow to run with zero head-butts for 5-6 months.

If they will comply, everyone would appreciate it.
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I totally agree, but everyone else seems to expect Effortless to work around them when it is not possible. The run on Monday had 1 of the four cities free for 2 new shells which means one of the new shells wouldn't be able to run at all. I think you all know how that went. Maybe if the four current shells had maybe given the newer shells a little time to get the kinks worked out and maybe talked with them in game even to suggest alternatives, it might have worked out better. You have to give a little to get a little. Had someone gone out of the way to make the schedule work for EVERYONE (it obviously didn't when the two new shells needed 2 city spaces and there was only 1) this might not have occurred.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I would take this lightly if I was Cythe. I'd be just as pissed off as he is, but I wouldn't confuse my position either. I cannot tell them as a shell what to do anymore than they can tell me. Personally, I'd make it impossible for them to run by whatever means available to me and make sure they respect the schedule in the future or forced to not be able to run.
 
Lavi said:
And yet there was only space for 1 of the 2 new shells to run in the new cities zones. Not a very welcoming jesture, now is it?
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Those schedules were setup before the other 2 linkshells were even announced, so there was no 5th or 6th linkshell to consider when planning ahead. You're acting like the older shells deliberately chose starters, when it's blatantly obvious that's not the case.
 
Rhaddy said:
There's not a lot of reason why people don't find out JP Dynamis LS runtime schedules besides that they usually run completely different times and no one really tries. If it was important, I could easily find out ForThirdStage and CuteRiborz LS schedules but it's never been a concern. Nobody would care if new shells were running at ridiculous times like 10:23 AM or something, but that's not the case. If you're running at prime time, and you know other shells are running at prime time, you should both try to be accomodating as possible.

Just because you would/could have done nothing if a JP Dynamis LS took your spot for the night, doesn't mean that all of us would've.
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But that's not the point. Even if you found their run times, who are you to tell them to change their time? That's the point. It's all free access to everyone. Heck, if I wanted to and had a bunch of friends who all wanted to do something fun, we could do dynamis and I am not obligated to tell anyone or care if we inconvenience anyone else. It's there and I can take it, that's all that matters. YOU want to change the way it's worked to convenience yourself and that's great, but no one is forced to abide by it nor can you force them to. Had SE cared to make it a sign up, they would have done so, but they didn't and that's all that matters.
 
Bajaratt said:
Those schedules were setup before the other 2 linkshells were even announced, so there was no 5th or 6th linkshell to consider when planning ahead. You're acting like the older shells deliberately chose starters, when it's blatantly obvious that's not the case.
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Yes, the schedule has been up there awhile. You also knew about the two new shells and their needs for well more than a week. Did nothing to work around them either. lolDynamis and the rest of the shells that run that night knew very well that those shells would need the four city wins to be able to access the outlands. Again, you knew there was 1 city space and 2 new shells. Nothing in at least a week, probably more, was done to accomodate them. They were basically forced not to run that night if they followed the schedule so they chose another alternative, inconvenience someone else.
 
Lavi said:
And yet there was only space for 1 of the 2 new shells to run in the new cities zones. Not a very welcoming jesture, now is it?
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These new shells chose that specific time slot though... If their concern was being "accepted" they could've picked a different time slot.

I totally agree, but everyone else seems to expect Effortless to work around them when it is not possible. The run on Monday had 1 of the four cities free for 2 new shells which means one of the new shells wouldn't be able to run at all. I think you all know how that went. Maybe if the four current shells had maybe given the newer shells a little time to get the kinks worked out and maybe talked with them in game even to suggest alternatives, it might have worked out better. You have to give a little to get a little. Had someone gone out of the way to make the schedule work for EVERYONE (it obviously didn't when the two new shells needed 2 city spaces and there was only 1) this might not have occurred.
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I don't understand how the four current shells would be in any way forcing them to run by a certain time and not allowing the newer shells to fix their problems. The thread on Dynamis Scheduling talking about how it is a concern has been around for a while now. If a newer shell did not have their problems figured out, and knew that they were going to block an older shell from entering, they should've cancelled and waited until they did.

I don't see how a new shell blocking an old shell would encourage anyone to cut the new shell some slack or encourage future compromises between older shells and newer shells. If anything this is setting a bad precedent for how shells should work together if there are conflicting zones.
 
Lavi said:
Maybe if the four current shells had maybe given the newer shells a little time to get the kinks worked out and maybe talked with them in game even to suggest alternatives, it might have worked out better.
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That's the problem. They showed little interest in "getting the kinks out" and now they're getting slagged heavily for it. Rightly so. Cythe's original post was made to point out their error and suggest a solution (whether you agree with it or not).

Lavi, you're just plain wrong when you argue nobody has the right to punish others for jumping ahead in line. Sure, they're "technically" within bounds in a way that would cause a GM to say "Work it out on your own, folks," but a healthy dose of social condemnation works wonders when people step out of line. Try to organize about two dozen WHMs to start charging for raises and see how long it takes them to collapse in a crying heap.

I know you're just playing devil's advocate, but you're wrong and you know it.
 
They wanted Jeuno, saw when you planned to enter, and decided that they would go in to ensure that they got what they wanted. And on the subject of zones, why not just hop an airship to one of the 3 other cities? you were IN jeuno, you could have entered Dyna-sandy in less time than it would take to wait for the other group.
 
Lavi said:
And yet there was only space for 1 of the 2 new shells to run in the new cities zones. Not a very welcoming jesture, now is it?
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Umm.. not our fault they chose a high populated time. There are LSs still seeking members. If they are people willing to work with others and obey the rules of the shell (appearantly the leader of this shell has been proven not to follow the rules with the old shell he was in) than they'd prolly get in. It's starting to be like sky it seems.. where most want to do it but rather than try and find a new LS they just create a new one. I know loldynamis will recruit from time and always open to people applying here or on our forums (made known a lot as well as other dynamis LSs forums were made known.. like.. in the dynamis section) and get a shot in. There are LOTS of LSs out there but not many seem to try actively applying.. it's, in a way, like a job, you go to them, they don't come to you, mostly. Unless you are known to the leaders, or someone who has the right to allow you in, to be an outstanding person and would be perfect for the shell, you are gonna have to apply yourself, they won't come to you. It was their choice to run then, no one elses, and it was pretty obvious how full it was, and is now. If more shells than 6 try and do Dynamis during friday and monday than one shell is gonna be screwed outta dynamis (I know loldynamis won't be doing the newer ones soon since we have more than 36 people attending every run and cutting people out wouldn't be fair to our shell members and not all the LS members have access to the newer zones or interest in it and I have a feeling most other LSs feel that way). And, it seems if we have 6 now than to be fair, no LS should be allowed to do the same dynamis twice as that wouldn't be fair to another LS since I'm sure other shells will wanna alternate dynamis from run to run (granted, there's a chance that people will double up on a dynamis if the other LSs don't have a problem but chances are not gonna happen). Right now it wouldn't be too bad if a new LS came on friday or monday at an earlier or later time than 8pm (since most shells are running around then) but if another shell comes than, it'll be a problem for all LSs already running and it'll be even more problematic for that newer LS since they have even less options. What's so hard to understand about this?


Lavi said:
I totally agree, but everyone else seems to expect Effortless to work around them when it is not possible. The run on Monday had 1 of the four cities free for 2 new shells which means one of the new shells wouldn't be able to run at all. I think you all know how that went. Maybe if the four current shells had maybe given the newer shells a little time to get the kinks worked out and maybe talked with them in game even to suggest alternatives, it might have worked out better. You have to give a little to get a little. Had someone gone out of the way to make the schedule work for EVERYONE (it obviously didn't when the two new shells needed 2 city spaces and there was only 1) this might not have occurred.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I would take this lightly if I was Cythe. I'd be just as pissed off as he is, but I wouldn't confuse my position either. I cannot tell them as a shell what to do anymore than they can tell me. Personally, I'd make it impossible for them to run by whatever means available to me and make sure they respect the schedule in the future or forced to not be able to run.
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No one said they were expected to work around the shells, they were expected to work WITH THE SHELLS. They made no effort to contact about the conflict even after they were made aware of it. No effort to work with lolDynamis to work something out. And you seem to think lolDynamis was supposed to move for them? Why would we have to be the ones to move? maybe we had lots of new members that needed the win so we could do the northlands with them and they wouldn't be left out. I'm not saying there was no chance lolDynamis wasn't gonna move, but they made no effort to talk to us about it. And, as pointed out, as early as they moved to, they could have done bastok or windurst or even sandy (I think) without conflicting as much as they did with lolDynamis. There was NO communication from them.. you seem to think you know everything about this situation.. seem to be sure that there was no effort at working with them and letting them know.. well there was effort.. just none from them, as far as I can tell. Now they have posted their schedule, that's good, now we can work with them earlier to make sure problems like this don't come up again, but if they expect all LSs to bow out of a zone for them because they are new, they (and you) need to think otherwise.
 
Halifirien said:
Sandy was taken.
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used as an example. There were 3 other cities, and 2 northlands zones provided your members had acess.
 
Lavi said:
But that's not the point. Even if you found their run times, who are you to tell them to change their time? That's the point. It's all free access to everyone. Heck, if I wanted to and had a bunch of friends who all wanted to do something fun, we could do dynamis and I am not obligated to tell anyone or care if we inconvenience anyone else. It's there and I can take it, that's all that matters. YOU want to change the way it's worked to convenience yourself and that's great, but no one is forced to abide by it nor can you force them to. Had SE cared to make it a sign up, they would have done so, but they didn't and that's all that matters.
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You missed my point. "Should" is the keyword. Nobody is denying anyone the right of free action. There are many actions i can use as examples of what I could do, but what i probably shouldn't do.

SE hardly cares about anything in this game. Just because SE doesn't find it important, does that mean people shouldn't care about it? If so, please explain to all those people who find RMT to be a problem. If people establish a standard, and a majority of people accept it, we >>>should<<< all try to work with it.
 
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Marajade said:
used as an example. There were 3 other cities, and 2 northlands zones provided your members had acess.
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maybe that's why loldynamis was doing jeuno to get the last few new members access to northlands. If that's the only starter city needed than that makes sense. Since this is a new shell the chances are that the majority of their LS needs all the starter cities still. And they could have gone to bastok (easiest of them all) at the 6:30 time they were changing to and not screwed with any LS as much as they did with lolDynamis. They would have had almost 3 hours in dynamis without interfering with another LS opposed to 1 hour. They chose to go from entering an hour after to an hour earlier than lolDynamis so they could get the zone, it's pretty obvious.. and it's an asshole thing to do. No offense.. but I really would wish this upon lavi, kire, shaunessy, and others and see how nice it is to be on that side. There was NO ATTEMPT.. NO EFFORT from them to work it out. WHAT DO YOU NOT GET?! DO YOU NEED ME TO MAKE THESE WORDS BIGGER SO YOU CAN GET THEM BETTER? hehe... jeeze..

edit: by the way.. kire, shaunessy, lavi, etc.. those that are taking this stance.. since you are like this.. I'm sure you'll have no problem if I get on and.. oh.. solo mobs around the area you are leveling a low level job on? Or maybe an MPK attempt wouldn't bother you so much? Or perhaps if I was to go buy an hourglass, go to dynamis zone before your LS, and enter and just sit there for an hour, that won't bother you right? it's entirely in my rights right? Or if a mob goes yellow I can take it from you just cause I can right? Or maybe I'll go up and piss off your sky LS now and then just cause it'll make me laugh.. go solo Ulli for an hour or so even if you've been camping it for ages. I think I'll go right on ahead and do that, and if you bitch, you're a hypocrit.
 
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Let me start with this. QCDN is a public forum which in no way has control over anything in game. People come here freely of their own choice and leave at their own choice. When you join the Quetzacoatl Final Fantasy server, you are in no way forced into join this forum. With that said, some people don't care about this forum, some don't use it and there are others who tell their shell members to refrain from using it. Now, the current dynamis shells knew of the two newer shells joining on the same night as their own. They knew that, they knew the shedule and didn't make any preparations to allow those two shells to have the ability to run (two city spaces were needed, one was available). Now, Meastoso posted his concerns on the dynamis scheduling board and wanted to express his concerns that something like this would happen. Now did anyone even once stop to consider (especially considering not once did anyone from Effortless ever respond to Meastoso's original post) that maybe they don't read or frequent the forums? Maybe someone from those four shells should have gone out of the way to make sure their was no conflicts. I am in no way blaming you since I am sure they probably knew there was, but that still doesn't mean your shell couldn't have done something to avert this.
 
Did you consider that, I don't know.. they were contacted in game?
 
Rhaddy said:
You missed my point. "Should" is the keyword. Nobody is denying anyone the right of free action. There are many actions i can use as examples of what I could do, but what i probably shouldn't do.

SE hardly cares about anything in this game. Just because SE doesn't find it important, does that mean people shouldn't care about it? If so, please explain to all those people who find RMT to be a problem. If people establish a standard, and a majority of people accept it, we >>>should<<< all try to work with it.
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Just like everyone -should- hold the door for the person behind them. They should, but they don't feel inclined to nor are they required to.
 
Elemmire said:
I'm sure you'll have no problem if I get on and.. oh.. solo mobs around the area you are leveling a low level job on? Or maybe an MPK attempt wouldn't bother you so much? Or perhaps if I was to go buy an hourglass, go to dynamis zone before your LS, and enter and just sit there for an hour, that won't bother you right?
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That's why I said Lavi's argument is seriously flawed. Her position -- that nobody has a right to dictate what they should do -- only works in a consequence-free zone. That's not the case here, because six pissed-off and inconvenienced linkshells (to use an extreme example) could truly ruin the upstarts' hopes of accomplishing anything in this game until they fall in line.
 
Lavi said:
Let me start with this. QCDN is a public forum which in no way has control over anything in game. People come here freely of their own choice and leave at their own choice. When you join the Quetzacoatl Final Fantasy server, you are in no way forced into join this forum. With that said, some people don't care about this forum, some don't use it and there are others who tell their shell members to refrain from using it. Now, the current dynamis shells knew of the two newer shells joining on the same night as their own. They knew that, they knew the shedule and didn't make any preparations to allow those two shells to have the ability to run (two city spaces were needed, one was available). Now, Meastoso posted his concerns on the dynamis scheduling board and wanted to express his concerns that something like this would happen. Now did anyone even once stop to consider (especially considering not once did anyone from Effortless ever respond to Meastoso's original post) that maybe they don't read or frequent the forums? Maybe someone from those four shells should have gone out of the way to make sure their was no conflicts. I am in no way blaming you since I am sure they probably knew there was, but that still doesn't mean your shell couldn't have done something to avert this.
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Taking into the consideration that they moved their entry time up after finding out that another shell intended on entering before their original stated time, and that they have since signed onto the board, and that they also posted on the board for recruitment, I would say that the chances that they don't frequent the forums are very low.
 
Rhaddy said:
Taking into the consideration that they moved their entry time up after finding out that another shell intended on entering before their original stated time, and that they have since signed onto the board, and that they also posted on the board for recruitment, I would say that the chances that they don't frequent the forums are very low.
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Exactly, in Cythe's OP, they obviously knew about the scheduling conflict and chose to try to screw lolDynamis out of jeuno instead of move or reschedule. Then, they later posted that they didn't know, an obvious lie, but they still kept their run at the same time, which pushed lolDynamis back. They knew in advance they were doing the wrong thing, and still chose to do it, so trying to argue that they're the good guys in any way is ludicrous. Lavi's throwing out anything he can to make Cythe and lolDynamis the villain here, when it's blindingly obvious that it's effortless and it's leaders.
 
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