Leaveing a party as you do not like a job in it

[Peregrine]

It's only the thief's problem if they do not propose an alternative positioning. The thief does what they have to do. They can't move the tank. They can't move the partner. If the party drifts into a bad formation it's out of their control. Most thieves don't care if they get hit with the wrong spell. They don't see enough bards to care, and they don't stand around long enough to care.

What thieves do to pickup parties, which is provide a simple predictable pattern that works, is useful. If you don't like it, that's fine. It would simply behoove you to never let them know. Don't party with thieves if you don't like thieves. Get your 3 warriors and go have fun. Get your 3 black mages and have at it. However, when you put your pickup flag up, you forfeit your right to make cheap commentary about what others play.

If you're the type of bard who will sit there for the entire 2 hours talking about how much better a drk/thf is right by a thief, you're better off living in the world where you fit in. Pickup world isn't for you. You belong in a static full of endgamers who, like you, like to maximize their associations with others to the expense of variety.

You're not a pickup partier. And that's fine. But as I'm leveling this stupidly broken and easy warrior, I still don't want to hear antithief chatter from a bard. To leave a pickup party that you flagged-up for, and thus waived your right to pick and choose what you play with, is ver poor of you, but to remain there with a poor attitude would be a greater offense. If you do leave, at the very least make up an excuse, because the thief has seen a hundred you's already, and it can really turn a decent day sour when you end the night dealing with an elitist flagger. Elitist flagger is an oxymoron, no pun intended. You cannot expect to have both.

 

[neophytal]

jobs to /disband in merit party....


hmmm...
pld
thf
drk
blm
smn
drg

hmmm yeah so that leaves nin cor war mnk brd blu rdm whm go

haha. jk really......sorta

 

[Kire]

It's only the thief's problem if they do not propose an alternative positioning. The thief does what they have to do. They can't move the tank. They can't move the partner. If the party drifts into a bad formation it's out of their control. Most thieves don't care if they get hit with the wrong spell. They don't see enough bards to care, and they don't stand around long enough to care.

What thieves do to pickup parties, which is provide a simple predictable pattern that works, is useful. If you don't like it, that's fine. It would simply behoove you to never let them know. Don't party with thieves if you don't like thieves. Get your 3 warriors and go have fun. Get your 3 black mages and have at it. However, when you put your pickup flag up, you forfeit your right to make cheap commentary about what others play.

If you're the type of bard who will sit there for the entire 2 hours talking about how much better a drk/thf is right by a thief, you're better off living in the world where you fit in. Pickup world isn't for you. You belong in a static full of endgamers who, like you, like to maximize their associations with others to the expense of variety.

You're not a pickup partier. And that's fine. But as I'm leveling this stupidly broken and easy warrior, I still don't want to hear antithief chatter from a bard. To leave a pickup party that you flagged-up for, and thus waived your right to pick and choose what you play with, is ver poor of you, but to remain there with a poor attitude would be a greater offense. If you do leave, at the very least make up an excuse, because the thief has seen a hundred you's already, and it can really turn a decent day sour when you end the night dealing with an elitist flagger. Elitist flagger is an oxymoron, no pun intended. You cannot expect to have both.

last 2 partys i was in i was in anon and got invites so i think had all right to say no to party with thf when i joined
the postion thing has to be MAGE=me=pld=monster=DDs
so i can ballad pld and i tell DDs " hump <bt>s ass " lol gets every one in line:3

 

[Kire]

jobs to /disband in merit party....


hmmm...
pld
thf
drk
blm
smn
drg

hmmm yeah so that leaves rdm nin cor war mnk brd blu rdm whm go

haha. jk really......sorta

drg on flying mobs
smn in burns
blm in burns
drk on weapons
thf no where
pld on ......

 

[Zethren]

Everyone hates the THFs (/-\)

 

[Tec]

It's only the thief's problem if they do not propose an alternative positioning. The thief does what they have to do. They can't move the tank. They can't move the partner. If the party drifts into a bad formation it's out of their control. Most thieves don't care if they get hit with the wrong spell. They don't see enough bards to care, and they don't stand around long enough to care.

What thieves do to pickup parties, which is provide a simple predictable pattern that works, is useful. If you don't like it, that's fine. It would simply behoove you to never let them know. Don't party with thieves if you don't like thieves. Get your 3 warriors and go have fun. Get your 3 black mages and have at it. However, when you put your pickup flag up, you forfeit your right to make cheap commentary about what others play.

If you're the type of bard who will sit there for the entire 2 hours talking about how much better a drk/thf is right by a thief, you're better off living in the world where you fit in. Pickup world isn't for you. You belong in a static full of endgamers who, like you, like to maximize their associations with others to the expense of variety.

You're not a pickup partier. And that's fine. But as I'm leveling this stupidly broken and easy warrior, I still don't want to hear antithief chatter from a bard. To leave a pickup party that you flagged-up for, and thus waived your right to pick and choose what you play with, is ver poor of you, but to remain there with a poor attitude would be a greater offense. If you do leave, at the very least make up an excuse, because the thief has seen a hundred you's already, and it can really turn a decent day sour when you end the night dealing with an elitist flagger. Elitist flagger is an oxymoron, no pun intended. You cannot expect to have both.

Very well said.
Thieves are not given enough credit.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but would gravity help this situation?

 

[Peregrine]

last 2 partys i was in i was in anon and got invites so i think had all right to say no to party with thf when i joined
the postion thing has to be MAGE=me=pld=monster=DDs
so i can ballad pld and i tell DDs " hump <bt>s ass " lol gets every one in line:3

Take it or leave it. Ask for the setup and decline if you don't like the logistics of the proposition. No one really cares what you think about their setup though. You don't have to say, "No I don't party with thieves." You don't have to say, "Sorry I only play with 3 rangers and a ninja." And certainly no one really wants to hear a little commentary about the worth of certain jobs as they simply ask you if you want a party or not.

Say yes. Say no. That's all you have to do, because anything else...no one wants to hear it. If they ask why, you don't have to lie. You just need to keep your comments to yourself about job worth and simply tell the truth--that you're just not up for it.

You chose a job that is born entitled. And that's fine, but your entitlement stops at simple logistics. A bard's entitlement and right stops very quickly, because almost any thief out there works harder for less while putting up with more. You chose the right job for you. Easy. Cheap. Effective. You have no right to lord such a simple and entitled job over anyone else as if you had anything do to with that right. That is why an elitist bard should simply not say a word. You can be elitist. I just don't want to hear it from a bard, no matter what job I'm playing, from thief to warrior, dragoon to ninja.

As for the epiphany that a paladin's back goes to the mages, good for you. The thieves out there applaud your efforts to be more than a simple singing toadstool xp-getter in your singing career. Do keep in mind, however, that a thief's rightful place is behind that tank, and that will always mean putting him in danger of receiving a mage song.

So step up or don't say a word. Know when the thief needs to be behind the tank and account for it or just don't take the invite and no one needs to know your prime motive for saying no. Be nice. The thief works harder than you do, and the very least you could do if you're not going to admire it...is to be quiet.

 

[Vilurum]

THFs are not bad damage output. Poorly played THFs are (the job's damage output suffers a lot more from lack of player skill than most damage jobs). Know the difference. I agree, a bad THF can be a headache to a party, but so can a bad insert-any-other-job-here, up to and including princess jobs such as yours and mine.

Your songs last 2 minutes. 2:24 with song +2 instrument, not that that applies to ballad under reasonable (non-relic horn) circumstances. Your timing on recast is more flexible than the THF's timing on SA and/or TA. You can recast a little bit before you need to, or you can recast a few seconds too late to keep ballads up a perfect 100% of the time, won't make a big difference either way. Point being, *you* should adjust *your* timing so that you're ballading the PLD when the THF's not there (such as, for example, right *after* the TA onto the PLD).

If the THF just hangs around behind the PLD longer then they should and gets ballads for *that* reason, that's when you point out they can either move out of the way when not TA'ing so they keep the correct buffs, or they can get ballads and not whine about them. Because in that case, it *is* the THF's fault. But timing ballads so they land *between* TA's onto a PLD is not very difficult, and any respectably competent bard should be able to pull it off.

If there's a RDM in the party, it's largely moot. PLDs' hate generation benefits from more melee damage output too (benefits more than you'd think for that matter), so if the RDM can take over feeding a PLD the 3 MP/tick any self-respecting PLD can hold hate fine with, then you can just save everyone the headache of positioning at all, and slap melee buffs on everyone. (And toss a Ballad 2 on the PLD between mobs.)

Alternatively, ask for the party setup before joining the party, and turn down the invitation if it's a poorly-designed setup (for example, piercing weapons off to fight bones, or melees that can't skillchain well together, or BRD PLD THF no-RDM). If you join before it's fully formed, then take an active role in the discussion of who joins after you do. Otherwise, don't complain about what you get when you don't bother to investigate or influence it.

 

[Pompidou]

Don't burn your bridges Kire. You're levelling bard now, so you can get away with anything you want. You won't be a bard forever. If I were you, I'd use levelling bard as a chance to make good friends, so that when I'm on the other end of the barrel, I can get invites. The haughty bard who leaves when things aren't perfect gets exp but that's all s/he gets. The friendly bard gets exp when s/he's levelling dark knight or dragoon sometime down the road. You'll get to 75 on bard whether you deserve it or not, but whether you get a party as any other job in the future depends on how many thieves you tolerate now. I levelled Blm when Blms were an in demand job (oh how the mighty have fallen). I never left a bad party. Coincidently, I get reputation invites when I'm playing other jobs. Karma is a wonderful thing, and you should take advantage of it.

 

[Lanien]

Taking Bard to 75, it took patience and getting your timing down in order to party with Paladins and Thief. Is it my place to kick them out just because of their job? No. If they don't listen to my requests on where to stand, then I might leave the party if I can find a replacement. All it takes is a simple request at the beginning of the party asking for the PLD to keep his back to the mages, and for the THF to stand off to the side or behind the mob unless he is SATA'ing. It isn't too difficult to get the timing down. I normally get my ballads in before the puller gets back to camp anyways.

 

[Davion]

It's stupid to leave a party cause they arent satisying your own personal expectations.

It's stupid. I had a NIN leave cause I wasnt casting Haste on him every 2 secs. LITTERALLY!

I'm like I'm not a SMN using Garuda and Hastega. I'm a freaking WHM with 5 other ppl to worry about and you're mad cause I'm Cure Ving the MNK and not casting Haste on you after I did it to u less than 20 seconds ago.

THF's and BRD's have to move around for a reason to do their jobs effectively some times stray hits and spells will hit them. SO WHAT?

Pulling with songs? u get more hate I believe from a song than a THF missing a ranged attk. Your song connects, the ammo didnt. So I say: Less hate from the missed attk.

Ex. Dia II/ Elegy/Requeim(sp) > Ranged Attack Missing

If the THF is too dependent on your melee songs to work effectively he or she needs to work on that. If I get hit with Ballad as my THF I really dont care I'll just learn to stay away when I see ya casting it in the chat log.

That's another thing. PPL need to watch the chat log. OMG the beautiful chat logs and the animations on the game tell ya so much.

It's 1:20am EST. That's all I can think of. XD

 

[Blaine]

THF suck at DD? ...You do know that THF are spikers, not fluent style damage, right?

 

[Lenneth]

I was going to type something on the subject but seeing all that Blazn speak rotted the thoughts right out of my head @_@

 

[Drystyn]

When I was leveling bard, I never turned down a party because certain jobs were more difficult to work with. And you know what? I'm a far better bard for it.

Part of the bard job is telling your party where they should stand, but it is equally part of the job to work with (and around) your party, even if they're being difficult. Your job is to learn how to hit people with the right songs, regardless of any people moving around, difficult setups, or positions.

I strongly believe that any bard who refuses to party with a thf and/or pld is simply a lazy brd who doesn't want to take the time to learn how to properly do their job.

Even if you have a thf who insists on always standing right behind a pld, guess what, you can still give them songs. They're called Etudes, use them.

 

[chrono fantasy]

Blazn is just being a bit arrogant I think because he knows he can pick which ptys he wants and what he wants in it to most benefit him since brds can get an invite in a matter of seconds.

I'd work with anything though, it's always more fun to have a challenge and not take the easy way through things, and this could better yourself as a player finding a slightly different role in the pty.

So what if you're not getting the fastest exp/time ever, as long as you're having fun during that time and possibly finding new ways to play your job in which you never played it before.

 

[Necrosis]

You can be very picky on BRD, when you're getting spammed invites.
However, if you accept an invite, which I assume you did, then disband because you didn't like the setup, you're an ass.

On BRD I usually don't care what the setup is, but from leveling 60-70 I've actually preferred PLD tanks, they give me something to do. Even when I'm pulling with elegy + casting requiem + 2x melee songs + 2x mage songs + curing tank it gets a little boring.

At 75 though, cannon onry. I want merits fast x:

 

[Bigboy]

BRD is too stupid easy to play for them to get very demanding. And considering Kire doesn't know what a THF is, his voice on the subject is kinda moot. Last I heard this was a 50+ BRD with no subjob. You take the time to pimp yourself out, and I'll let you play elitist. But if a BRD starts shooting its mouth off with no gaudy harness, less than 10 instruments (Gallahorn excluded) and anything short of +100 MP worth of equipment on their person, I don't wanna hear it. BRD can be played nakid with a level 1 harp and still be usefull in a group, the trade off is they need to shut their traps or their gimpage wont be tolerated by anyone with more than a years play time under their belt.

Seriously though, congratulations on getting a job SE felt they needed to give a money reward out to convice people to unlock past 50.

 

[Prothall]

i rarely flg now days i get alot of invites not flg (lolbrd)
if there is a THF in party i will normaly ask if thf can go as i kinda do not like thfs they suck at DDinga DRK/THF is better easy and all they can do expect try DD is pull what i can do fine.
And thfs run alot and move into my ballads etc making there DD even worst as i ballad a pld at 9.9 etc and they go behind at 9.7 and get ballad 1 2
so you think its right to leave a party if you do not like the job(s) in it?

Wow Kire, I used to have a little respect for you... but just no. A good thf can add just as much to the party as other melees, and if you need your little distance checker to suck too much to cope with thf-- you don't deserve to be a bard.

 

[Bigboy]

Not to spam the topic, but I had to take a piss before and pressed submit.

A THF lets all other members of the party do more damage and function closer to their full potential. As a BLM and WHM, the difference in how safe you are when a THF is in the PT is very noticable. Admittedly, other jobs can sub THF and provide a few of the same benefits, but its never the real deal. If Kire cant land songs without hitting the wrong person, the THF who's doing their job is not the weak link in this PT...

THF movements are absolutely predictable, if you can't avoid them, you fail as BRD.