Legalizing Recreational Marijuana in CA - Up for Vote

[Zaltana]

So you've not only insulted me, but a large number of my family members and an even larger number of society in general that BTW probably prescribe you your drugs, preform your surgeries etc. They're dumb because they smoke a natural substance....

If smoking pot makes you dumb you may want to take a look around at the people you look up to. The older generation of pot smokers don't seem to advertise their extra-curricular activities like the people in my age group and younger seem to.

But again, what the fuck do I know, I'm a dumb ass pot smoker with little to contribute in the way of knowledge.

And your buddy who fried his cat, yea he's a fucking dumbass. Pot smokers don't tend to kill their animals accidentally, absent minded stunned asses do though.

I've also insulted several members of my own family, including my own brother. I tell them this to their faces. No matter how natural it may be it's still a drug. Drugs damage your body, even the ones that have effects that help it.

I'm on the older side of the fence myself. the people i look up to have fallen and had the fortitude to pull themselves back up without repeating the same mistakes. Rare people by and far let me tell you. I view the use of drugs as a stupid choice from the countless nonproductive repercussions it produces. I saw these examples growing up and instead of falling in line with the dumbasses my brother seemed to need to be around, as did many others in my neighborhood, i took the high road. Sure i got laughed at, and the peer preasure was there, but i was stronger then that, then them. and i sit here typing this feeling no regrets of my decisions. I know i made the smart choices back then. I only wish others of my relatives did as well.

 

[Koenigstiger]

I never understood the whole peer pressure thing. It never really lived up to it's name. Just because x didn't do y, no one honestly cared enough to make someone feel bad about that. There were those that smoked, those that drank, and those that did neither and they generally all kept to themselves. Again, productivity is a lame argument. What if you did nothing whatsoever but you decided to just sleep 24/7. Just because they're not doing any drugs but instead do nothing at all, they're considered smarter and more productive than someone who does this or that? There are fuck-ups who smoke pot, there are fuck ups who drink alcohol, there are fuck ups who do nothing. Point is, people fuck up, don't blame something for that.

 

[Zaltana]

Well yes, the blame does fall on the individual person themselves. Mix in intoxicating substances and it gets worse. Leave them out and you stand a better chance of pulling a 180 degree turn. If they are foolish and/or weak enough to turn to drugs or alcohol the consequences are their own. Only catch is that said consequences have the risk of spilling over to others directly or indirectly involved.

My view may seem harsh, but on this matter i find it necessary. I will admit there are always exceptions to the rule, Morch does seem like one since she doesn't look like an abuser, but as a whole the use of drugs and/or alcohol is still dumb IMO. My GF has recently become a social drinker. Her father is an alcoholic that ran off with some gold digging bitch less then a month after his wife passed away. Do i love her any less now that she drinks when out with friends, no i don't, but she knows full well i don't like it. Because i know, full well, what can happen, its in her blood. Her father is weak, and as his daughter she has that same weakness. Lucky for her i'm there to catch her should she start to fall.

*edit*
forgot to address the 24/7 sleeper. He/she is just as bad because laziness is another thing i don't put up with either. Have that enough from the assclowns i work with every day.They're fuck ups that think its cool to remain fuck ups. They do their job good enough to not get fired to they can afford their booze & drugs but that's about it. Laziness is laziness whether you do drugs or not.

 

[Icewolf]

Well yes, the blame does fall on the individual person themselves. Mix in intoxicating substances and it gets worse. Leave them out and you stand a better chance of pulling a 180 degree turn. If they are foolish and/or weak enough to turn to drugs or alcohol the consequences are their own. Only catch is that said consequences have the risk of spilling over to others directly or indirectly involved.

My view may seem harsh, but on this matter i find it necessary. I will admit there are always exceptions to the rule, Morch does seem like one since she doesn't look like an abuser, but as a whole the use of drugs and/or alcohol is still dumb IMO. My GF has recently become a social drinker. Her father is an alcoholic that ran off with some gold digging bitch less then a month after his wife passed away. Do i love her any less now that she drinks when out with friends, no i don't, but she knows full well i don't like it. Because i know, full well, what can happen, its in her blood. Her father is weak, and as his daughter she has that same weakness. Lucky for her i'm there to catch her should she start to fall.

I think you would get along great with my older brother, he is also a very anal. But he never really had a reason to, he was even against drinking. Once he went to college and saw with his own eyes that weed and alcohol aren't really a big deal, he finally lightened up. He got rid of so many of his friends growing up because they started smoking weed. I straight up told him that I do, and I'm the first person he finally accepted, and didn't push away for an non-existent reason.

So basically every time I see someone like you, I think of him. Ignorant people that hate something they don't understand. And give no legit reason why it's such a bad thing.

 

[Zaltana]

And when i go to work i will be reminded of you, kids who don't listen. Did you read the whole statement or just skimmed over it looking for key phrases to nit pick?

You think drugs and alcohol aren't a big deal? Try being the person that has to read the blotter every day, and after a four day weekend, to make sure none of the members of his battalion are on it for being arrested or dead as a result of either or, and imagine the shock of seeing names of people you personally know. I spent 4 years in one of the largest group of AA needing individuals on the country, the USMC. And as the Legal NCO of my battalion i lost count of how many drug & alcohol incidents i had to write court marshals and NJP's for while i was there. But like you said its not a big deal, right?

As for your story, yes I think your brother was smart for leaving deadbeats behind. I understand weed very well, which is why i don't mind if it gets legalized. But it is still a drug. Drugs damage your system. Nicotine does it, alcohol does it, even prescription meds do it (they just go more repairs then dmg), and i think people are fools for using them as well. Well not drugs prescribed by doctors but you get the idea. But all those are legal, and more dangerous, then weed. Which is why i don't mind if they legalize it. You shouldn't, and can't, arrest people for being stupid. I used to drink too. Started when i was 19. It got boring when i hit 21, the thrill was gone, and had my last one when i was 24. My oldest friend probably still smokes weed. He doesn't around me because he knows i do not like it. He offered me once, i said no, that was that. I didn't try to talk him out of it because it was his choice. He's still my friend. My GF left one of her best friends at the time behind because she started smoking weed as well. Her friend then started drinking, hanging out with the "cool" kids at school and before long was just another statistic to add to the list.

You can give me all the excuses in the world to defend a substance addiction. I'll change my mind when drugs have more positive effects on the fools that use them then negative. I can't say i'll be holding my breath. All my info comes from 2 sources, what i have read about, and what i have seen with my own eyes. You say i'm ignorant about this subject. My life experiences seem to say otherwise. Oh and am i correct in saying that, despite his lightened outlook on the subject, your brother was still smart enough not to start smoking weed?

 

[Dowzer]

Alcohol and drug abuse are very serious issues. I believe you're way ahead of yourself by saying anyone who picks up a joint is going to become an addiction case. Even your girlfriend, you're so worried it's cynical.

I can't seem to understand how someone loses all ambition to do anything fun after smoking. They have no ambition to begin with in those cases.

I'll give an example of walking our dogs in the park and lighting up a joint off to the side of the trail. Did we call it quitting time and take the dogs home so we could vegetate infront of the TV? No, we took them to the LAX box and played fetch with hockey sticks and tennis balls. Better yet, off leash hikes are mandatory so they can run on their own.

The main priority of that is getting the dogs their daily excercise, the hikes are great for us too.

That's only the tip of the iceberg.

Try riding down to Mexico on your brand new $25k Harley and then go to Alaska a few months later. Maybe even the Queen Charlotte Island's and across Canada being planned for another huge trip. I'm not on a bike myself, but that's more of a scared shitless mentality. (They bought theirs at a young age of 20.) Pot smokers could never equate to endure 12 to 16 hour riding sessions, could they? Even through the Baja Desert?

Being on the peak of one of our local mountains is great too. We ride to find a nice view of the entire city, a look off to the twin peaks called, "The Lions," or just a nice view of some people riding the slopes. Those are great spots to smoke at. When we go up with an odd amount of people, it can be pretty fun to meet new faces when going up the chair. Smoking or not smoking has no control over this. We would still stop to rest and we would find a nice view to do so. We would still meet new people going up the chairlift.

We've had some pretty cool ideas come to life, I'm not saying these ideas come to life because we smoke pot. We're generally fun, respectful and sociable to be around. Our friend's summer camp site has endless activities. In the winter it's even better, we bring our snowboards and tow ourselves up the mountain for a great ride down. It's not all fun and games either. In the winter it gets as cold as -20C and in the summer as high as 35C. Harsh conditions call for maintenance. Chopping firewood isn't too much of a chore. What's the most FUN camping necessity to repair? THE OUT HOUSE WOOOOO. Fun.

Aside from summer and winter trips, there's a whole mess to be found inbetween. Whether it be a daily routine of yard work, cleaning the house, doing dishes and laundry, or just taking the dog for a walk, my friends and I don't let something as trivial as marijuana affect our lives in such a devastating manner you have portrayed. Until you know someone personally, please don't generalize those who understand healthy living and moderation.

 

[Zaltana]

ok you and your friends paint a positive picture. I've done my share of traveling and amazing sight seeing as well. Never needed a high to enjoy them tho.

The fact that you all continue to dance around is that for every positive example you bring to the table i can search my memory, not the web, for 5 negative situations that had more of a chance to have a better outcome if drugs and/or alcohol were not a part of the equation. I will just let the several i have already mentioned speak for themselves. You say till i know someone personally don't generalize? You are generalizing as well, just in the opposite manner. And have i not repeatedly shown that my PoV comes from people i know, and situations i've had to be directly involved with?

 

[Dowzer]

Did I say a high was needed to enjoy any of it? Absolutely not, in fact I said we would continue as such because it has no control over what we do.

Here:

We ride to find a nice view of the entire city, a look off to the twin peaks called, "The Lions," or just a nice view of some people riding the slopes. Those are great spots to smoke at. When we go up with an odd amount of people, it can be pretty fun to meet new faces when going up the chair. Smoking or not smoking has no control over this. We would still stop to rest and we would find a nice view to do so. We would still meet new people going up the chairlift.

ok you and your friends paint a positive picture. I've done my share of traveling and amazing sight seeing as well. Never needed a high to enjoy them tho.

The fact that you all continue to dance around is that for every positive example you bring to the table i can search my memory, not the web, for 5 negative situations that had more of a chance to have a better outcome if drugs and/or alcohol were not a part of the equation. I will just let the several i have already mentioned speak for themselves. You say till i know someone personally don't generalize? You are generalizing as well, just in the opposite manner. And have i not repeatedly shown that my PoV comes from people i know, and situations i've had to be directly involved with?

Your roomates cat? Are those the 5 reasons? Your girlfriend's responsible drinking? AA meetings, sure I'll give you that? Court marshals for smoking in the army, OK? Death!? What!?

Your "reasons" are far fetched and lack any level of tact. Your bullshit of "prescription meds do more repairs than damage" shows just exactly how ignorant you really are about the subject as a whole.

How am I generalizing by saying you shouldn't quickly pass judgement until you know that person? I never said all pot smokers use it in responsible moderation. Like you said, I was painting a positive picture amidst your damages to society.

Your point of view in my opinion, is extremely narrow. All those deadbeat "friends" you left behind, did they all end up behind bars? In institutions? As burdens to their family and or society? If they all have, then I accept they were truely deadbeats. If they were truely friends, you would remain to stay out of their irresponsible behavior, but to a point where you could help them get out of it. Just like your girlfriend, will you disown her if she succumbs to a similar situation regarding her father's alcohol abuse? No, you wouldn't dare do that, but why did you leave your "friends" behind?

As for your examples, AA meetings? I'm sorry, wrong topic. Batallion? I assume the army? Being arrested for pot, okay...Understandable in the USA. But you bring up death? Excuse me? I can understand alcohol. Perhaps, did people on marijuana put themselves in physical harm that resulted in death? Like a car accident, or a bad fall as a result of poor motor skills? I'm seriously at a loss for your "death" statement.

From what I gather, you seem to believe anyone who "turns" to alcohol or drugs, I assume marijuana in particular, is a fool?

God forbid anyone uses alcohol or marijuana responsibly. Paint the town red.

 

[Morcheeba]

Dowzer painted a typical picture. What you described less the specific activities/locations is pretty much what I know of pot smokers. I was raised in a pot smoking home. That's what I know. I have never looked badly upon pot even during the years I swore it off myself.

My parents went as far as to instill a proper legal smoking age, 19. We were expected to obey their law mimicking our legal drinking age.

Kids abuse pot. Mature adults introduce it into their lives to enjoy their life more so. And you know for a large number of the population who prefers a joint over a beer ... I say why the fuck not. So many of us are killing ourselves every day to get a lil piece of the pie. Just a slice of fucking happiness before we die off.

I'm feeling rather vulgar right now... enjoy lol

 

[Zaltana]

Your roomates cat? Are those the 5 reasons?

That sounds like one to me. one of many you omitted in your response. And as you also overlooked where i said "I can search my memory, not the net, for 5". And i also left it at my already stated examples as i felt i did not need any more. my case and view is made and will not change till i see, with my own eyes, positive drug & alcohol use outweigh negative use. And it was not my roommates cat, i'd never live with pot smokers, but was the roommate of my oldest friend, whom i also pointed out smoked. I went to the house to visit him and he didn't live there anymore. When i did see him he informed me as to why he didn't. he had no reason to lie to me so i believe him.

Your girlfriend's responsible drinking? AA meetings, sure I'll give you that?

She doesn't need any, she not an alcoholic. And so long as she has me, she never will be.

Court marshals for smoking in the army, OK? Death!? What!?

no not death, this isn't the dark ages. just time in the brig, dishonorable discharge from the armed forces when you get out of the brig, and a black mark on your record that follows you around for the rest of your life. And i said the USMC not the army, there's a difference.

Your "reasons" are far fetched and lack any level of tact. Your bullshit of "prescription meds do more repairs than damage" shows just exactly how ignorant you really are about the subject as a whole.

Just because my reasons go over your head due to you not understanding them does not make them far fetched. i understand your reasons. you like to use it to relax and take in the moment, basically. but its still a drug addiction. And if prescription meds don't help a condition then why would a doctor prescribe them? hmmm? Telling someone to take something that won't help relieve the condition they went to see the doctor for is a form of malpractice you know. Side effects aside, no pun intended, prescriptions are given to help, they just have possible minor hurt on the side.

How am I generalizing by saying you shouldn't quickly pass judgement until you know that person? I never said all pot smokers use it in responsible moderation. Like you said, I was painting a positive picture amidst your damages to society.

Thus you are making a positive generalization about the subject. makes spotting the negative examples much easier, although they don't need any. help. And you still aren't listening. Did you skim over my posts nit picking like icewolf too?

Your point of view in my opinion, is extremely narrow. All those deadbeat "friends" you left behind, did they all end up behind bars? In institutions? As burdens to their family and or society? If they all have, then I accept they were truly deadbeats. If they were truly friends, you would remain to stay out of their irresponsible behavior, but to a point where you could help them get out of it. Just like your girlfriend, will you disown her if she succumbs to a similar situation regarding her father's alcohol abuse? No, you wouldn't dare do that, but why did you leave your "friends" behind?

In regards to my opinion, be that as it may, it is born from actual experienced events, not factoids from pamphlets or educational videos. If my GF became a alcoholic like her father she would no longer be the woman i fell in love with. One of the reasons we even got together was cause she didn't drink at the time. Drinking and smoking (sigs or pot) is a major turn off for me. So i can say yes i would leave her if that came to pass. But i need not fear that day cause she hates her father for his alcoholism and has far to much self respect to fall as low as he is. So i tolerate her social drinking.

As for your examples, AA meetings? I'm sorry, wrong topic. Batallion? I assume the army? Being arrested for pot, okay...Understandable in the USA. But you bring up death? Excuse me? I can understand alcohol. Perhaps, did people on marijuana put themselves in physical harm that resulted in death? Like a car accident, or a bad fall as a result of poor motor skills? I'm seriously at a loss for your "death" statement.

The answer is very simple. Many of my USMC brothers and sisters are no longer here because of drunk driving and/or driving while fatigued (another matter for another thread). Have you ever put on the uniform? Do you know the sense of pride you get from overcoming your fears and doubts with the help of a group of strangers who over the coarse of your training you forge an unbreakable bond of trust and kinship with? NOw imagin seeing the names of one of those people on a list because they did something they know better then doing. Or worse yet, is dead from it. Military personel are notorious for alcohol abuse. I know this cause i have had to not only repremand several of them myself, but because i've had to do the paperwork for countless others. The actual cases vary, but all could have been avoided if they just used their better judgment.

From what I gather, you seem to believe anyone who "turns" to alcohol or drugs, I assume marijuana in particular, is a fool?

God forbid anyone uses alcohol or marijuana responsibly. Paint the town red.

Yes that is true. i view substance use, and moreso abuse, with total contempt. It causes more problems then it can possibly solve. I see no logical sense in willingly putting chemicals your body was not designed to break down into your system. I find anything that compromises my exemplary sense of self control offensive. And anything that has the potential to prematurely end my life has no business in it. Turning to a substance is a weakness, and weaknesses exist to be overcome, not fed.

 

[Morcheeba]

Turning to a substance is a weakness, and weaknesses exist to be overcome, not fed.

Or a simple pleasure to be enjoyed.

 

[Zaltana]

Or a simple pleasure to be enjoyed.

yeah, if you enjoy poisoning yourself on a regular basis. But to each their own.

 

[Icewolf]

yeah, if you enjoy poisoning yourself on a regular basis. But to each their own.

Lol in your eyes it really isn't "to each their own". You seem like you literally hate people that do something different than you. If it were true you would accept others for being different, and enjoying whatever they want. Do you walk down the street and shake your finger at people smoking cigs?

 

[Koenigstiger]

We're all going to die at some point, regardless of what you do.

 

[Dowzer]

Holy Cow

That sounds like one to me. one of many you omitted in your response. And as you also overlooked where i said "I can search my memory, not the net, for 5". And i also left it at my already stated examples as i felt i did not need any more. my case and view is made and will not change till i see, with my own eyes, positive drug & alcohol use outweigh negative use. And it was not my roommates cat, i'd never live with pot smokers, but was the roommate of my oldest friend, whom i also pointed out smoked. I went to the house to visit him and he didn't live there anymore. When i did see him he informed me as to why he didn't. he had no reason to lie to me so i believe him.

Woops, I misread it was your oldest friend's roomate, I'm sorry. I never said I don't believe you. Would you like to know what I think of that subject? Just what Morcheeba said, the kid was definitely a tool to begin with. Even when stoned out of my mind, which I'm not while doing chores, I have to check the lint filter to make sure it's not clogged. I WOULD SEE MS KITTY THERE LOL (my cat has loads of hide-out spots to sleep). I'm not sure if newer machines have lint filters or not, maybe his didn't. Maybe he had alergies and never cared for the cat much, so he wouldn't assume to find it there. Maybe he just didn't like that cat. Anyway, the kid's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

She doesn't need any, she not an alcoholic. And so long as she has me, she never will be.

You took that out of context and I could have arranged it better. I meant I was using her as one of your "examples" and I believe you will stop her all that you can.

no not death, this isn't the dark ages. just time in the brig, dishonorable discharge from the armed forces when you get out of the brig, and a black mark on your record that follows you around for the rest of your life. And i said the USMC not the army, there's a difference.

I thought you meant marijuana related deaths. I'll quote myself, "I can understand alcohol. Perhaps, did people on marijuana put themselves in physical harm that resulted in death? Like a car accident, or a bad fall as a result of poor motor skills? I'm seriously at a loss for your "death" statement."

Just because my reasons go over your head due to you not understanding them does not make them far fetched. i understand your reasons. you like to use it to relax and take in the moment, basically. but its still a drug addiction.

Whoever said it wasn't? I sure didn't.

I understand them perfectly. Nonsense flies over my head and right now I have an umbrella for your bullshit.

And if prescription meds don't help a condition then why would a doctor prescribe them? hmmm? Telling someone to take something that won't help relieve the condition they went to see the doctor for is a form of malpractice you know. Side effects aside, no pun intended, prescriptions are given to help, they just have possible minor hurt on the side.

Thanks for proving my point. I never said they don't help. Let me start over and say that prescription medication can cause irreversible damage and in some cases, even death. In some cases it's a lot more than "minor hurt on the side."

Thus you are making a positive generalization about the subject. makes spotting the negative examples much easier, although they don't need any. help. And you still aren't listening/

Allow me to quote myself, once again, "How am I generalizing by saying you shouldn't quickly pass judgement until you know that person? I never said all pot smokers use it in responsible moderation. Like you said, I was painting a positive picture amidst your damages to society."

A generalization is broad statement, kind of like, "i view substance use, and moreso abuse, with total contempt."

In my "positive generalization" I listed the activities my friends and I do for fun. In no way, shape or form did I say all people who smoke pot are like me.

In regards to my opinion, be that as it may, it is born from actual experienced events, not factoids from pamphlets or educational videos. If my GF became a alcoholic like her father she would no longer be the woman i fell in love with. One of the reasons we even got together was cause she didn't drink at the time. Drinking and smoking (sigs or pot) is a major turn off for me. So i can say yes i would leave her if that came to pass. But i need not fear that day cause she hates her father for his alcoholism and has far to much self respect to fall as low as he is. So i tolerate her social drinking.

I misread the original post and thought you had disowned a friend for smoking, when it was actually your girlfriend. I find that it's really cool you can keep a friend who smokes pot, who respects your decision and you respect his.

The answer is very simple. Many of my USMC brothers and sisters are no longer here because of drunk driving and/or driving while fatigued (another matter for another thread). Have you ever put on the uniform? Do you know the sense of pride you get from overcoming your fears and doubts with the help of a group of strangers who over the coarse of your training you forge an unbreakable bond of trust and kinship with? NOw imagin seeing the names of one of those people on a list because they did something they know better then doing. Or worse yet, is dead from it. Military personel are notorious for alcohol abuse. I know this cause i have had to not only repremand several of them myself, but because i've had to do the paperwork for countless others. The actual cases vary, but all could have been avoided if they just used their better judgment.

No, I haven't and I'm deeply sorry if you've lost anyone close to you.

But to stay on topic, this has to do with what exactly? I'm sorry, Alcohol Abuse in the Army thread is > that way.

Yes that is true. i view substance use, and moreso abuse, with total contempt. I see no logical sense in willingly putting chemicals your body was not designed to break down into your system. I find anything that compromises my exemplary sense of self control offensive. And anything that has the potential to prematurely end my life has no business in it. Turning to a substance is a weakness, and weaknesses exist to be overcome, not fed.

I really hope you don't drink coffee.

 

[Miros]

But to stay on topic, this has to do with what exactly? I'm sorry, Alcohol Abuse in the Army thread is > that way.

You seriously need to stop playing topic police. This has a lot to do with the subject of legalizing it simply because we have people saying that they don't like being around people who smoke weed. Chances are if it's legalized more people are going to do it. So knock it off.

 

[Zaltana]

Lol in your eyes it really isn't "to each their own". You seem like you literally hate people that do something different than you. If it were true you would accept others for being different, and enjoying whatever they want. Do you walk down the street and shake your finger at people smoking cigs?

In a manner of speaking, yes i do. I dislike alcoholics so i do not interact with them. i dislike chronic cigarette smokers due to the smell and the smoke so i do not interact with them. I dislike criminals for obvious reasons so i do not interact with them. though i do have to make an exception for my brother who seems to finally getting his life on track, better late then never. And i dislike pot smokers due to 90% of the ones i have encountered being dumb lazy individuals. the most recent examples being several of my co-workers. Who also fit the other billets too. so yes i guess you're right. and no i don't go shaking fingers at cig smokers. They wanna feed their weakness and inhale a bunch of chemicals none of this boards grammar nazis could spell on their best day without looking at the package that's their problem.

We're all going to die at some point, regardless of what you do.

true, but thats no reason to speed up the process, no?

Dowzer's long statement

No i don't drink coffee. my feet hit the ground running. I do not require artificial energy boosts from caffeine, or energy drinks, or those foolish 5-hour energy pills. My GF swears that if she didn't make me i'd never sleep, which isnt far off the truth.

but as for the rest, Yeah the kid was a lazy POS. allow me to quote myself "And while i cant say the cat still would not have died due to the roommate's natural irresponsibility, i can safely say that it's chances of survival would have been much higher if he wasn't stoned." sounds like all three of us are in agreement about that particular issue.

I used my time in the armed forces as another example as to my dislike of substance abuse. And to further explain that my POV is forged from what i have experienced myself. I myself dislike any form of substance dependency because i think it makes an individual weak. I, like the rest of the human race, have had to endure my fair share of trials while growing up. More then average by many standards, but thankfully far less then the crazy cases we often hear about. But i have faced them all without leaning on the crutch of substance use or, in the case of the truly pathetic, abuse. I faced many of them alone, by choise because i knew surviving would make me a stronger person, or with the help of my friends and family when needed. And i respect other that can do the same.

I can tolerate users, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. i sorta have to be tolerable given many of my friends and family drink and smoke (cigs and pot either or), but my friends know full well how i feel about it. abusers i wont give the time of day to. they personify the complete opposite of the pillars of my fortitude and have no business with me. It's their own fault for being weak enough to choose substance abuse instead of relying on their inner strength.

 

[RaidrX]

I think the problem most people are having with your argument Zaltana is that you're placing yourself above everyone else because you believe not doing any 'substances' makes you a better person. You're acting high and mighty because you're better than any substances and that you make it sound like people who do partake must all be some retarded losers to enjoy something like a beer or marijuana. I think the problem is that the line between use and abuse in your definition has become skewed.

Using a substance to have fun and enjoy yourself is not abusing. It also means you don't have to use a substance to enjoy life either. As Dowzer was illustrating in one of his previous posts, its just something you can use to supplement into life and make things different or better. I used to smoke once every couple of months because it was a different experience. Different shit becomes fun or more funny, food tastes OMG SO much better, and you can experience things that you just cant if you aren't high. And yet, its not like I've been sitting in the fetal position in the corner of my room ever since dreading every second of my life. I, like you, also dislike alcohol because i've seen the destructive nature it can have on someone who 'Abuses' it. However just because someone has a drink here and there doesnt mean I all of a sudden think of them as a weak, useless no good human being because of it.

And yet thats how you make it sound, at least thats the vibe I get from all of your posts. Like I said before, I know people with 4.0 GPAs and getting full rides to college, people making 100k+ a year who smoke weed way more than I do, sometimes on a daily basis, and not only are they being successful in life, but also completely enjoying life as well. But thats because they are using the substance, not abusing it.

Obviously you have grown up in a negative light around all substance abuse and you have become bitter about the whole issue. You have the right to your opinion and I honestly can totally tell where you're coming from because I too have seen the negative effects alcohol/marijuana can have on people. Its just your generalizations that all substance users are basically weak people is where your argument falls short. In my opinion, its not the substances that make a person weak, but more so that the people who succumb to substances were already weak in the first place. Its the difference between use and abuse and it doesn't seem like you can make that distinction any more.

 

[Dowzer]

You seriously need to stop playing topic police. This has a lot to do with the subject of legalizing it simply because we have people saying that they don't like being around people who smoke weed. Chances are if it's legalized more people are going to do it. So knock it off.

It really has a lot to do with the subject? Being written up for using something [marijuana and/or alcohol] which they shouldn't be doing in the first place? He even goes on to mention death from drunk driving, I'm sorry, this has everything to do with marijuana, doesn't it? His statement had nothing to do with it and everything to do with the USMC's personnel not following strict regulations.

The closest he came to making a reliable comparison is where he mentions "driving while fatigued" which could possibly be a result of driving while stoned. We've discussed this already, anyhow, it leads back to the USMC's personnel not following strict regulations.

I agree I never liked the smell until I acquired a taste for it. Even then, I don't want to smell it all the time either.

I don't think it will be much of an issue if they conform to cigarette regulations. At least in B.C., we have banned smoking in indoor public places and work places, near public doorways, open windows and airtakes. They've also limited the display and sales of tobacco products, they're not allowed to display a wall of cigarette packages anymore, they're behind curtains or in storage. They are currently working on banning smoking at all outdoor bus stations and stops.

I'd like to poke an enormous hole in your judicial system observation. Did you really expect to find healthy and moderate smokers among that crowd?

Regarding Zalt's older friend's roomate's cat, no I disagree, the cat would have died regardless. I can't fathom how you couldn't see a cat in the drier, even if it were a tiny little kitten.

People make enormous mistakes even with a straight head.

At my old job, a forklift operator was unloading a vehicle and had to adjust the forks to lift the load. When he got off the fork lift, he didn't put on the brake. The forklift moved forward and would have pinned and crushed him between it and the vehicle. Luckily, the forks were in line with the vehicle's bed and prevented it from crushing him. This person was not a smoker.

My father fell down the stairs, cut his head open and was knocked out as a result. There was so much blood when I found him. He would've died. My dad isn't a smoker.

Anyway, quoting for emphasis.

Its just your generalizations that all substance users are basically weak people is where your argument falls short. In my opinion, its not the substances that make a person weak, but more so that the people who succumb to substances were already weak in the first place. Its the difference between use and abuse and it doesn't seem like you can make that distinction any more.

While I hold him in high regard for his abstinence of mind altering substances, I find it incredibly arrogant of him to lump responsible users among the worst of abusers.

 

[Zaltana]

You would not be the first to think of me as such, and i do not apologize for it. It's part of who i am. Maybe i am a little harsh on those that use substances responsibly. Dowzer and Morch look as though they grew up with a more bright side look at such things. Had the circumstances been reversed we could very well be having this discussion on reversed ends of the spectrum. I didn't exactly grow up just seeing bad examples of just substance abuse, it was more specificly a barrage of different examples, substance abuse among them from people in my neighborhood, most provided by my brother. So you can say i have a very good reason for thinking the way i do.

But i just think it's stupid, not wrong. You can't, and shouldn't, arrest a person for being stupid. As much as i think substance use and abuse is a waste of time, so do i believe that prosecuting pot smokers for using a substance far less dangerous then the 2 most popular legal drugs on the market, cigs and alcohol, is just as stupid. There are far more important matters for the law to pay attention to.

*slightly off topic*
As for Raider's comment, am i wrong to feel as such tho? Unlike a great deal of many of my peers, i have no children half my age, no substance dependencies, no criminal record, and basically have done nothing foolish to cause me to regret my decisions years later. I see little reason not to regard others who seem to be unable to make decisions i made quite simply as not worth my time? I give respect to those that face everyday life, adversity, and generally all rough times with their own will without leaning on a chemical crutch. I did it, anyone can do it. Substances are not needed. I give double respect to those that fall and get back on their feet. Google Anthony Hargrove for an example.