Limbus hate issues

[Bladewind]

My Limbus group did Temenos - west last night and had a couple of strange things happen, the group was WHM RDM DRK THF NIN(me) WAR, second pt of BLM COR.

Early on in the run a mob was pulled to us, a tiger on the first floor i think, i provoked it and engaged, but it went straight to the WAR and started to attack him, it struck me as odd but i thought he might have 'voked himself and it had not showed in my log.

The next issue happened when we got to the lizard floor, after killing 3~4 i went and pulled another from just outside the door, with provoke. As i started running back to camp in the tele room the RDM converted and DS cure4'd himself, without taking any action on me or the mob i've pulled, but it goes straight after him and i struggle to get hate back until i get TP and WS.

The final problem was on the last floor, there's a group of ~6 pink birds that all link when pulled, the BLM runs in and Sleepga2s them. The rest of the group engages the bird i provoke and we procede to kill it, i provoke a second bird before the 1st bird dies but then begin to attack a 3rd bird, attempting to keep hate from the blm on as many mobs as possible. The mobs all wake while we're attacking the second bird just after i use warcry (hitting 4 pt members), and instead of chasing the BLM they all come straight after me, i wasn't prepared to be mauled by the remaining ~4 mobs and died, at which point they chased after the BLM again, and the RDM + BLM were able to keep the mobs slept while the melee picked them off.

Anyway, if only one of these things had happened it wouldn't have bothered me but when you combine them all it really started to bug me, just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.

 

[Germ]

The final problem was on the last floor, there's a group of ~10 pink birds that all link when pulled, the BLM runs in and Sleepga2s them.

Isn't there only 6 birds? I haven't done any limbus for awhile.

No idea about the hate situation though. Something doesn't seem right. I used to pull all the zones and I never had an issue, nor the tanks.

 

[Bladewind]

Isn't there only 6 birds? I haven't done any limbus for awhile.

No idea about the hate situation though. Something doesn't seem right. I used to pull all the zones and I never had an issue, nor the tanks.

Yeah i think you're right, there was 6 birds, like i said it was late... i just added an extra row behind the three i guess. I've not done a whole lot of temenos yet, sorry.

Edit: updated first post with correct #s

 

[Kairiboo]

Not sure about the first mobs, but I've had similiar happen on ODS. BLM slept the mobs, then war used warcry (while they were still asleep). When they woke, they mauled the war. Not really sure how that works. lol

 

[Olrox]

The first prob was the war must have voked or done some action stronger than your voke.
Second, that is what should happen. DS cure 4 is like activating sentinel, especially after Convert. And the Third problem I don't know. Hate in limbus can be party hate depending on mob, and a super sensitive aggro range. Also if you use enmity, the blm's decaying enmity could have been less than your Warcry with said enmity. Which would cause them to hate you more, and attack you.

 

[Bladewind]

Not sure about the first mobs, but I've had similiar happen on ODS. BLM slept the mobs, then war used warcry (while they were still asleep). When they woke, they mauled the war. Not really sure how that works. lol

I know warcry generates a fair amount of enmity, not sure if #of people it hits makes a difference like rampart or not, but it didn't hit the blm who was the only person on at least 3 of the birds hate list so shouldn't have generated any enmity towards me from the 3+ I or anyone in my pt hadn't touched.

 

[Bladewind]

The first prob was the war must have voked or done some action stronger than your voke.
Second, that is what should happen. DS cure 4 is like activating sentinel, especially after Convert. And the Third problem I don't know. Hate in limbus can be party hate depending on mob, and a super sensitive aggro range. Also if you use enmity, the blm's decaying enmity could have been less than your Warcry with said enmity. Which would cause them to hate you more, and attack you.

wow... just wow... thanks for the input.

First you repeated what i already said, well done, you can read.

Second, apparently i was wrong you can't read, go back and look again i clearly said the rdm made no action on the mob before converting so should have gained no enmity.

Third, no-one in my party had any hate on the remaining mobs, so it would have to be alliance hate, even so i doubt i'd have more hate than the blm but it's possible, and no, i don't use any enmity from gear, i'm more there as a DD than tank.

Nice try though, maybe you can state some more "facts" to help me figure out what happened. Or... you could fuck off and let someone who knows what they're talking about answer instead of spouting off more assumptions and bullshit.

 

[Grandphoenix]

wow... just wow... thanks for the input.

First you repeated what i already said, well done, you can read.

Second, apparently i was wrong you can't read, go back and look again i clearly said the rdm made no action on the mob before converting so should have gained no enmity.

Third, no-one in my party had any hate on the remaining mobs, so it would have to be alliance hate, even so i doubt i'd have more hate than the blm but it's possible, and no, i don't use any enmity from gear, i'm more there as a DD than tank.

Nice try though, maybe you can state some more "facts" to help me figure out what happened. Or... you could fuck off and let someone who knows what they're talking about answer instead of spouting off more assumptions and bullshit.

I think hes right about the red mage part maybe not convert but since he was in the party/alliance a 800ish Cure IV is going to put some hate on them self even if they haven't had touched the mob

 

[Germ]

I think hes right about the red mage part maybe not convert but since he was in the party/alliance a 800ish Cure IV is going to put some hate on them self even if they haven't had touched the mob

Again, I've never had hate issues with a pull and the tank voking, with the mob(s) aggroing someone that was in the party/alliance doing a hate-generating action that wasn't on the puller or provoker. This is in regards to the tigers and lizards. (On a side note, I think the mobs have a more sensitive linkage range than similar mobs outside of limbus, which has nothing to do with this discussion.)

As far as the birds, I know you stated that your warcry covered 4 party members, so it may be possible that one of those characters was the blm that cast sleepga2 (I'm not sure). Possibly your warcry topped the enmity that the birds got from the sleepga 2 and the blm, hence the mauling you got.

Or not.

 

[Bladewind]

I think hes right about the red mage part maybe not convert but since he was in the party/alliance a 800ish Cure IV is going to put some hate on them self even if they haven't had touched the mob

If they share pt hate, i guess it's true, but it seemed odd to me, i guess next time i'll pull again and die away from the pt, and see if the mob goes after them or not.

Again, I've never had hate issues with a pull and the tank voking, with the mob(s) aggroing someone that was in the party/alliance doing a hate-generating action that wasn't on the puller or provoker. This is in regards to the tigers and lizards. (On a side note, I think the mobs have a more sensitive linkage range than similar mobs outside of limbus, which has nothing to do with this discussion.)

As far as the birds, I know you stated that your warcry covered 4 party members, so it may be possible that one of those characters was the blm that cast sleepga2 (I'm not sure). Possibly your warcry topped the enmity that the birds got from the sleepga 2 and the blm, hence the mauling you got.

Or not.

I thought of this but i did mention the BLM was in a second pt and not the main one, we swapped the THF from main pt to second to collaborator the BLM, other than that we were in the same set-up i put in the initial post.

 

[Olrox]

I wasn't sure on your situation for the first and third. But I know I'm right for the second. The RDM does not need to take any action on anything to gain hate. DS Cure IV is ALOT of hate in itself.

 

[jyakotsu]

wow... just wow... thanks for the input.

First you repeated what i already said, well done, you can read.

Second, apparently i was wrong you can't read, go back and look again i clearly said the rdm made no action on the mob before converting so should have gained no enmity.

Third, no-one in my party had any hate on the remaining mobs, so it would have to be alliance hate, even so i doubt i'd have more hate than the blm but it's possible, and no, i don't use any enmity from gear, i'm more there as a DD than tank.

Nice try though, maybe you can state some more "facts" to help me figure out what happened. Or... you could fuck off and let someone who knows what they're talking about answer instead of spouting off more assumptions and bullshit.

You need to chill out, Olrox was simply stating options that could have occured. Secondly, from experience he has done quite a few more limbus runs than you, he was simply trying to help you without using a negative tone. If you ask for help expect people to throw opinions out there, if you don't like it next time don't ask for help.

 

[Bladewind]

You need to chill out, Olrox was simply stating options that could have occured. Secondly, from experience he has done quite a few more limbus runs than you, he was simply trying to help you without using a negative tone. If you ask for help expect people to throw opinions out there, if you don't like it next time don't ask for help.

Y'know, i actually respect Olrox quite alot for not responding, i'll admit i was needlessly harsh to him in my previous post and i appologise, but most of what i said was true, his theories were disproven simply by reading what i wrote in the initial post. Eitherway, he chose not to respond even though i was being a dick, so well done for being the bigger man and walking away instead of arguing.

As for Jyak... ugh, you're not worth the effort it would take to type a response.

 

[jyakotsu]

wow... just wow... thanks for the input.

First you repeated what i already said, well done, you can read.

Second, apparently i was wrong you can't read, go back and look again i clearly said the rdm made no action on the mob before converting so should have gained no enmity.

Third, no-one in my party had any hate on the remaining mobs, so it would have to be alliance hate, even so i doubt i'd have more hate than the blm but it's possible, and no, i don't use any enmity from gear, i'm more there as a DD than tank.

Nice try though, maybe you can state some more "facts" to help me figure out what happened. Or... you could fuck off and let someone who knows what they're talking about answer instead of spouting off more assumptions and bullshit.

As for Jyak... ugh, you're not worth the effort it would take to type a response.

Let me say that I for one know quite a bit about limbus.

Secondly, things that you said above are NOT necessary and can be taken VERY easily as flamebait outside the flameboards. Please refrain from such outside the flameboard.

Good that Olrox ignored your obvious attempts at inciting something, bad for you to continue to throw them out.

 

[Shady]

He's right about the alliance hate with the red mage~ just like a paladin will cure himself for hate even if he doesnt swing at the mob(i.e paladin with terra or earth staff) someone that cures/sentinels will get hate similarly to the red mage DS Cure IV although it's not a sentinel you get what I'm saying. Also yes warcry effect hitting more members does cause more hate than warcry on just yourself, more people you hit more enmity you get. Combine that with the fact that most* war's have some sort of +enmity and blm would have some sort of -enmity (assuming, may not be right but check your gear I bet it is) would also have an effect on a sleeping mob.

 

[Bladewind]

He's right about the alliance hate with the red mage~ just like a paladin will cure himself for hate even if he doesnt swing at the mob(i.e paladin with terra or earth staff) someone that cures/sentinels will get hate similarly to the red mage DS Cure IV although it's not a sentinel you get what I'm saying. Also yes warcry effect hitting more members does cause more hate than warcry on just yourself, more people you hit more enmity you get. Combine that with the fact that most* war's have some sort of +enmity and blm would have some sort of -enmity (assuming, may not be right but check your gear I bet it is) would also have an effect on a sleeping mob.

Thanks for the answer, i guessed it was alliance hate but it struck me (and the rest of my group) as very odd when it happened, especially 3 times in one run. Only thing i'd note is that i was NIN at the time, not WAR and as far as i know, neither have any enmity+ that i can think of, I know i should be using Cerb with +3 on NIN but didn't have it on me, and i don't have Usukane Sune-Ate (2/3 D:!).

 

[Ewok]

I wasn't sure on your situation for the first and third. But I know I'm right for the second. The RDM does not need to take any action on anything to gain hate. DS Cure IV is ALOT of hate in itself.

This is only true if these mobs have alliance/party hate. Normal hate system the healer has to take action on the party member(s) on the mobs hate list, has to be resting within the the mobs aggro range, or has to take direct action on the mob itself. How much hate it generates is pointless to the arguement.

 

[Olrox]

This is only true if these mobs have alliance/party hate. Normal hate system the healer has to take action on the party member(s) on the mobs hate list, has to be resting within the the mobs aggro range, or has to take direct action on the mob itself. How much hate it generates is pointless to the arguement.

Once someone pulls the mob no matter who does it, and it is red, any actions can and will cause the mob to attack the person doing said actions. DS Cure 4 is a great way to pull unwanted hate. Also the idea of party hate is a bit diff than you think. If someone pulls a mob that has party hate (flies in dragon aery) if no action from anyone else is taken, they will kill off the aggro-(er?) and then proceed to next player. No mob in this game needs to have party/alliance hate to have the aggro-er grab an enemy, and then someone do a Spike enmity ability/spell for the original person to lose hate, no matter if it is direct action or not. The only way it won't go after rdm is if its yellow and not claimed.
Works just like in a PL pt. If your pt's puller pulls 2 mobs by accident, the only way the PLer can get the other mob off your dying pt member is by your pt getting hate, therein claiming it and causing hate to shift. So if it was aggro pulled and brought to your group still unlcaimed/yellow then yes I am confused on how rdm took hate. If it was pulled via voke, /ra or any action or ja that u might pull with. I am 100% positive that is how it goes.

The only instance I know of where hate doesn't transfer, and this is weird.. is inside burning circles or any crazy capped fight in a bc type arena. where people pull by doing no action and then shed no hate to others via spells/ablities they use. Like the mammet fight used to be idk if that changed.

 

[Bladewind]

Even if the mob is red, if it doesn't have party hate the rdm can do whatever he wants aslong as he makes no direct action on the mob, or a player that has already attacked the mob (/ra /ja or just a swing and miss). Outside of party hate, assume a NIN provokes a mob a PLD in the same party stood next to him can Invincible Sentinel and cure4(himself) as many times as he pleases, he wont even be on the mobs hate list, if the NIN dies and is left outside of its spawn area, it'll depop. Same thing applies to any job and ability/spell, including rdm. Having said that it does appear the mobs in limbus have party hate, and will kill anyone you're partied with even if they've made no action, once the people higher on the hate list are dead.

 

[Germ]

I have never noticed party hate in Limbus. I can guarantee I never waited for the whole party to be 100% healed in all cases before I pulled, so if there was some less than modest healing/-other hate actions- (such as cure bombs and what not) going on as I pulled and the tank voked, I can't recall losing hate to the party members that were doing outside actions not related to the mob or people on the hate list.

This is the "Fat Tire Amber Ale" clouding my sentence structuring ability. My apologies for the difficult read.