LOLBest Buy need I say more?

[CidBahamut]

Convenience brings people back.

Like the convenience of not having to do all the research beforehand because the salespeople are actually honest with you? Or did I miss the point?

 

[Lucki]

Like the convenience of not having to do all the research beforehand because the salespeople are actually honest with you? Or did I miss the point?

You missed the point.

 

[CidBahamut]

Clearly.

I just don't see why we can't have convenience and variety along with good customer service. Why is swindling your customers necessary?

 

[Kotsu]

It's not swindling. Swindling is when you add something on without informing the client ahead of time. They pay for a service, Best buy delivers on it. They agree to the service ahead of time.

 

[CidBahamut]

It's not swindling.

Yes it is.

It is an unnecessary service presented in a deceptive fashion.

 

[Uzor]

I stand by my assessment, DW.

A PlayStation 3 is not a gaming system for the "non-tech-savvy". Yes, some games do contain updates and patches, but I believe most of those are for the games, not for the system.

I could understand if they were offering this service in 2005 when it was released, when people were effectively buying it as a Blu-Ray player with an OMG gaming system attached, but they're not anymore.

Like I said, I stand by what I said. If you're spending more than $100 on an item, you better damn well do some research into what it can and cannot do.

This is not the case at all. EVERY PS3 and PSP game contain the latest Playstation/PSP upgrade at the time of the release. You don't need to download anything to install it, it installs automatically after pressing one button. Why does it contain the upgrade? Because Sony wants to avoid pirating by forcing people to use the newest patch to play games.

Its not impossible to get around, but unless you're tech-savvy, its A LOT harder and more complicated. It is actually a perfect system for the non-tech savvy because of its simplicity. The only time you even need basic tech-savvyness is if you want to personalize it more or activate internet functionalty - neither which is a requirement to play any games but, say, FFXIV etc.

 

[CidBahamut]

They're effectively charging $30 to push the 'OK' button when prompted to save the customer the trouble. Then they're marketing it as a necessary service that requires their specialized training.

 

[Lucki]

They're effectively charging $30 to push the 'OK' button when prompted to save the customer the trouble. Then they're marketing it as a necessary service that requires their specialized training.

Nowhere on the ad in question, does it say this is a necessary service or that it requires specialized training.

 

[Kotsu]

Where did it say necessary service or specialized training? It's a simple closed ended, yes or no question. It's not "You gotta pay $30 for us to update it or you can't even use the damn thing". I think you're starting to see what you want to see to give you an excuse to hate late corporations.

 

[CidBahamut]

I see "eliminates bugs and glitches".

What does that tell the average consumer?

 

[Lucki]

That it eliminates bugs and glitches, not that it renders the PS3 a $300 paperweight.

 

[Kotsu]

Exactly what updating the firmware does. Not what they do. They update the firmware.

 

[CidBahamut]

In an age when even the mainstream media picked up on Xboxes red-ringing, bugs could very easily be equated to a console becoming a paperweight. Thus necessary.

Even without considering that, the process of updating firmware does not warrant sale as a service since it's damn near automated already. This is like charging extra to set the time on a clock as some sort of bonus service after you've purchased it. Sure you can pay them to do it but it's something you were going to do yourself anyway.

 

[Kotsu]

Yup. You could have done it yourself anyway. It's like paying for a pre-assembled computer when I could do the same thing in 15 minutes with nothing more then 1 screwdriver. Damn that convenience and it's pricey additives!

 

[Lucki]

In an age when even the mainstream media picked up on Xboxes red-ringing, bugs could very easily be equated to a console becoming a paperweight. Thus necessary.

Even without considering that, the process of updating firmware does not warrant sale as a service since it's damn near automated already. This is like charging extra to set the time on a clock as some sort of bonus service after you've purchased it. Sure you can pay them to do it but it's something you were going to do yourself anyway.

You are now using two different arguments.

In the case of Best Buy and the PS3, (unless I'm wrong, but this is my impression) you are saying that consumers are buying the service because they don't know, and because they didn't know, weren't going to do the update.

In the case of the watch, you are saying that consumers are not buying the service because they do know, and because they do know, are going to do that themselves.

 

[CidBahamut]

Yup. You could have done it yourself anyway. It's like paying for a pre-assembled computer when I could do the same thing in 15 minutes with nothing more then 1 screwdriver. Damn that convenience and it's pricey additives!

That's a piss poor counter-example and you know it. Building a PC requires knowledge beyond 'click ok to update automatically'. You have to know the components, what's compatible and how to put it together without shorting it out. Also pre-built computers generally come with a warranty, which you don't get when you build your own so there's more than just having it assembled out of the box.

A more apt example would be charging $30 to run Windows Automatic Updates. Go on, tell me that wouldn't be a scam.

In the case of Best Buy and the PS3, (unless I'm wrong, but this is my impression) you are saying that consumers are buying the service because they don't know, and because they didn't know, weren't going to do the update.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken the PS3 itself would take care of notifying them that it was update time and pretty much do it for them. So yes, they would perform the update because it's part of the product they're already purchasing.

 

[Lucki]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken the PS3 itself would take care of notifying them that it was update time and pretty much do it for them. So yes, they would perform the update because it's part of the product they're already purchasing.

What you're arguing is that in the case of the watch, the consumer is informed, but in the case of the PS3, the consumer isn't. Nobody is born with the knowledge of changing time on a watch, we learn it. What Kotsu and I are saying, is that if people aren't going to bother learning about a PS3, and that it takes less skill to update than changing time on a watch, then a consumer deserves to get charged for crap they could do themselves if they just bothered to inform themselves.

 

[Kotsu]

That's a piss poor counter-example and you know it. Building a PC requires knowledge beyond 'click ok to update automatically'. You have to know the components, what's compatible and how to put it together without shorting it out. Also pre-built computers generally come with a warranty, which you don't get when you build your own so there's more than just having it assembled out of the box.


Unless I'm greatly mistaken the PS3 itself would take care of notifying them that it was update time and pretty much do it for them. So yes, they would perform the update because it's part of the product they're already purchasing.

Each individual part comes with a warranty, assuming you don't static shock it. The parts can be installed in a plug and play basis inside a computer as well. It's all very easy to learn and teach. Either way, it's something you can do yourself.

How bout spending $30 for an oil change that costs them $18 in parts, then they charge you $6 in oil removal/clean up. IE: All they do is take it to the dump for you. That's a rip off too, right? nevermind the expenses built into that: Business Auto Insurance, Business Liability Insurance, Gas, Mileage, Vehicle Maintenance.

Best Buy has an incredible amount of overhead expenses as well, while trying to maintain their profitability to keep their stocks high enough to continue gaining investors. This allows expansion for more profit and growth of the company. Growth of the company equivocates over to more jobs for the area of the expansion and thus a better economic flow of income and taxes for the area as well. That's growing on a national, community and personal level. That's what it's all about. Offering a service and people accepting it because they don't know better? That's exactly what I described in my example. More extreme? Yes. But it's the same path of reasoning.

 

[Kotsu]

It's not a scam. I fucking do it all the time to users whose computers I fix or remove viruses from. Those MS Updates have a regularly-updated Malicious Software Removal Tool for a reason. Why shouldn't I charge them if I'm going to sit and spend my time running broadcasted updates that they clearly won't?

You're supposed to tell them how to do it yourself so that you no longer have a job but people are happy.

 

[CidBahamut]

Each individual part comes with a warranty, assuming you don't static shock it. The parts can be installed in a plug and play basis inside a computer as well. It's all very easy to learn and teach. Either way, it's something you can do yourself.

Warranty covers repair labor, which means I don't have to spend my time on it.
Yes it's easy to learn once you get into it, but it isn't something that's trivially easy or automated.

How bout spending $30 for an oil change that costs them $18 in parts, then they charge you $6 in oil removal/clean up. IE: All they do is take it to the dump for you. That's a rip off too, right? nevermind the expenses built into that: Business Auto Insurance, Business Liability Insurance, Gas, Mileage, Vehicle Maintenance.

Same boat as computer assembly. Yes it might be easy to learn but it still isn't automated or trivially easy.

Best Buy has an incredible amount of overhead expenses as well, while trying to maintain their profitability to keep their stocks high enough to continue gaining investors. This allows expansion for more profit and growth of the company. Growth of the company equivocates over to more jobs for the area of the expansion and thus a better economic flow of income and taxes for the area as well. That's growing on a national, community and personal level. That's what it's all about. Offering a service and people accepting it because they don't know better? That's exactly what I described in my example. More extreme? Yes. But it's the same path of reasoning.

All I heard was: "Eternally rising profit margins".