LS Drama and making examples of the innocent.

Davion

Davion

.::[free yourself]::.
Adventurer
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
1,279
Age
43
Location
Atlanta, GA
Nation Banner
Bastok
Main Job
BlackMage-Male
Secondary Job
RedMage-Male
Third Job
Scholar-Male
This is a general flame. I rarely make flames but this as been bugging me for a while. I'm not going to name any LSs to avoid drawn out drama and slander against LSs that have legitimate people in them, etc.


I really hate it when leaders make examples of innocent players that actually make a stand against them legitimately. I really think that it's hypocritical of leaders of a linkshell to say that they want there members to speak out if there is an issue, but when that time occurs, usually what I've seen happen is the following:

They way it should happen
  • Good leaders will take the issue with all sincerity and work out a solution with it's members so that everyone will be happy pandas.
  • See Bullet #1
  • See above bullets.

Sadly though, in some linkshells I've come across or have been in briefly for one reason or another the complete, total, and sometimes brutal opposite occurs.

LS member: I have an issue about ____________.
LS leader or officer: I don't like you're issue. You're causing drama. /breaklinkpearl (whatever the command is) :banned:

And to top it off, as many of you have seen, people will start talking shit about the said person behind their backs and when their friends defend them they get kicked to. I honestly think it takes alot of bravery to confront a bad leader and those that don't are only going along for the ride to get what they want and then leave. I'm aware I'm beating an drum as old as this game is but, seriously is this:

dats.jpg


...really worth all of this drama?

But I dunno this might fall on deaf ears.

I understand there is a way to say things to express a valid point but still I do not think it's fair to make an example out of someone who has the balls to stand up to you and come forward with an issue and the way you honor their bravery is to utterly humiliate them. That's some childish shit that's best left on a playground.


That is all.

(*Mods move as you see fit.)
 
The way it should happen*

I fail proofreading sometimes.... >.>
 
Honesty, courage, honor, integrity....
...all of these things have been dead for a long time.
 
hey guys, let's associate the internet with real life!

[/sarcasm]

on the almighty series of tubes that we spend so much of our lives on, everyone without a direct tie to their real lives (protip: we don't have that here) everyone is a racist, sexist, overprotecting, arrogant, slander spreading asshole.

if you don't believe you are any of the above (protip #2: you probably are anyway) you are destined to be abused by the above.

the only way to avoid the 2 above is to literally not care about anything that happens on the game. you effectively laugh off anything that happens, and under those circumstances no one can do any harm to you because they can't hit you where it hurts.


abuse, be abused, or do nothing at all.
 
The problem with LS leaders is that so many of them think everything in their group, especially their ruling, is perfect. If someone sees a problem and points it out, then that brings an imperfection to the light. No one else sees the issue (or won't address it out of fear lest they receive the same punishment) and thus the easiest thing for said leader to do is blame the one who pointed it out.

Because obviously flaws and issues fade away if you just pretend they don't exist.


The above reaction is fairly typical, since being a leader requires nothing more than giving a few lame promises and pointing a finger in a direction. Rather, just because someones a leader doesn't mean they have any leadership abilities...at all.

All you can really do in the end is hope for the well-being of the people who remain in such shells and pray that they don't get hurt.
 
Tymon said:
hey guys, let's associate the internet with real life!

[/sarcasm]

on the almighty series of tubes that we spend so much of our lives on, everyone without a direct tie to their real lives (protip: we don't have that here) everyone is a racist, sexist, overprotecting, arrogant, slander spreading asshole.

if you don't believe you are any of the above (protip #2: you probably are anyway) you are destined to be abused by the above.

the only way to avoid the 2 above is to literally not care about anything that happens on the game. you effectively laugh off anything that happens, and under those circumstances no one can do any harm to you because they can't hit you where it hurts.


abuse, be abused, or do nothing at all.
Click to expand...

Mishaela said:
The problem with LS leaders is that so many of them think everything in their group, especially their ruling, is perfect. If someone sees a problem and points it out, then that brings an imperfection to the light. No one else sees the issue (or won't address it out of fear lest they receive the same punishment) and thus the easiest thing for said leader to do is blame the one who pointed it out.

Because obviously flaws and issues fade away if you just pretend they don't exist.


The above reaction is fairly typical, since being a leader requires nothing more than giving a few lame promises and pointing a finger in a direction. Rather, just because someones a leader doesn't mean they have any leadership abilities...at all.

All you can really do in the end is hope for the well-being of the people who remain in such shells and pray that they don't get hurt.
Click to expand...

It does take a thick skin to not really care but some people (like me) just really hate seeing the pointless drama sometimes, particularly what the drama is over.
 
Davion said:
It does take a thick skin to not really care but some people (like me) just really hate seeing the pointless drama sometimes, particularly what the drama is over.
Click to expand...

Nah, I can't shrug off bullcrap either. Lost two LSes due to it but I'm glad that I did what I could in both cases.
 
I am honestly sick of leaders kicking those that they find too "rebellous" when they stand up for what they believe in...

honestly yeah it's a game...but wow.
 
It's pathetic to see what some drama is caused over, especially between friends over gear, (the greedy people).

Other then that I think drama is innevitable(sp). It's in every linkshell at some point, it sucks. ; ;
 
This is why I miss my CK days sometimes. The shell was pretty baller in about every department.
 
First, Davion's picture and analogy wins.

Second, it's annoying when that sort of stuff bleeds over into a different area, like, say, a forum for the linkshell. I left my first linkshell in this game due exactly to that kind of powertrip, so I can believe that.

I am of the mind that if a person chooses to be in a linkshell, that person has chosen said Shell-holder as a leader (of sorts), and in most cases, if the person doesn't like how things are run in a shell, he/she can leave. However, of course, extenuating circumstances exist, and some wrongs do need to be discussed with the shell leader before that route is taken.

When things go awry and the Shell-holder becomes belligerent about their own 10k-paid "Authority", though; that's a different problem altogether.
 
Garvin said:
Honesty, courage, honor, integrity....
...all of these things have been dead for a long time.
Click to expand...
there are some that still live to the old code, very few but they are there.

Mishaela said:
The problem with LS leaders is that so many of them think everything in their group, especially their ruling, is perfect. If someone sees a problem and points it out, then that brings an imperfection to the light. No one else sees the issue (or won't address it out of fear lest they receive the same punishment) and thus the easiest thing for said leader to do is blame the one who pointed it out.

Because obviously flaws and issues fade away if you just pretend they don't exist.


The above reaction is fairly typical, since being a leader requires nothing more than giving a few lame promises and pointing a finger in a direction. Rather, just because someones a leader doesn't mean they have any leadership abilities...at all.

All you can really do in the end is hope for the well-being of the people who remain in such shells and pray that they don't get hurt.
Click to expand...
I belive this is called leadership vs Managers.

Managers have a position of authority vested in them by the company, and their subordinates work for them and largely do as they are told. Management style is transactional, in that the manager tells the subordinate what to do, and the subordinate does this not because they are a blind robot, but because they have been promised a reward (at minimum their salary) for doing so.

Leaders -Telling people what to do does not inspire them to follow you. You have to appeal to them, showing how following them will lead to their hearts' desire. They must want to follow you enough to stop what they are doing and perhaps walk into danger and situations that they would not normally consider risking.
Leaders with a stronger charisma find it easier to attract people to their cause. As a part of their persuasion they typically promise transformational benefits, such that their followers will not just receive extrinsic rewards but will somehow become better people.



would of paraphrase, but don't have the time
 
worst case is they gave you a lame excuse why they kicked you out of LS (which sounds like what little kids will make)
 
Quite often its not how well you perform in a workplace that matters its how popular you are with the bosses, the same can be held similar for any situation really.
 
Rules are generally in place for a reason and really should not change all too much. If you're forced to constantly change them, then there is probably something wrong. As a leader, it's your obligation to create a set of rules which will work best for everyone and is fair; however, there is no best set of rules so you're left to make something that works for the moment and is as fair as possible. When it comes to individuals wanting change, no matter how reasonable it is, change is always reflected on as bad. It's often just that simple.

In my first sky shell, the shell's leader went absent and there was some questions in the shell about where it was headed. Members were unhappy because nothing was being done in his absence and people responded by simply asking questions. All that was required was some assurance the shell would continue and people would be treated fairly like they had been. That was seen as drama. The response was "if you don't like it leave" and this wasn't just a singular problem, half the shell was feeling a little unwanted and unfairly treated. They had been around for a year, farmed up many sky drops for many others and expected them to do the same for everyone. And rightfully so, but it wasn't seen that way. Eventually the shell split in half. Needless to say, I put the nail in that coffin, but it was dead long before I did so.
 
Something to remember is that everyone thinks with different heads, I'm not trying to look for excuse for any of the side.
I just find pathetic (sp.) when 96% of LS members agree about a specific topic (about Leaders behaviour for example), and when is time to face the problem, only 1 give his own opinion, and other (also pissed by the same behaviour) stay silent or just give vague indication, or even worse lick asses.
If i say "Leader you suck" and he reply "no i don't" ... probably it's because he really can't see the problem, and think to be right, and it's his right to kick me from the shell. But if 30 people say "Leader you suck" he probably would start realizing that there is something that is not going fine (unless he is a totally blind idiot who just want to be right and leave no space to dialogue), at this point or he change (or try to change) something, or he'll kick everyone not on his side, and he'll run a shell of ghosts, with just the people to fill a party or less.
But again, everyone thinks in different ways, and what seems so obvious to one it's not to another.
When this was happening to me, as a ls friend use to say, i showed "i have nuts bigger than my brain", i told leaders what people were constantly complaining about, and no one of the mentioned people said a single word, the leaders didn't saw the point (repeting myself, they probably didn't even realized their attitude was changed) but seeing no one coming after me to lend a hand to fix the problem, i simply left it to fall in oblivion. I said mine, leader said his own, if he wanted to kick me, he had his right to do it, i didn't agree with "ls path" so no matter if that path took a wrong direction or if i was meant for different paths... my place wasn't there anymore... even if my friend still were there, no one would have prevented me to keep doing stuff with them.
I see LS as a way to make friends not as a duty, for duty there is RL, that's pissing enough sometimes, i won't allow anyone to pull myself out of my nerves for a game, and if the LS will start making me nervous beyond a limit, i won't think it twice to toss the pearl myself and keep playing with that few mates i owe respect.
 
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