Main Healing when you're not a WHM

NIN tank is like 99% better for a SMN.

Sabia, there is lots of bad players out there, and most of them will not listen to advice.
 
I know what you mean Sabs.
I mean some mobs do 100dmg/hit and hit 2-3 times when I can do one Cure III and without backup I can just spam Cure III and yet it won't cover all the dmg but I will get mad hate eventually :p

What I just said is the horror version though, when it's like this it is because NINs utsu just wore for a while and having trouble getting it up again or that the PLDs buffs wore and might be out of mp to heal himself so it's not like some parties are like this always, but there are times when just one cure from another mage would save the tanks life and then it's no time to start bitching about job efficiency JUST DO IT!
 
I dislike the term main heal and backup heal. When you have two heal capable jobs, rdm and smn in a party they should be co-healing, as in sharing the load.

The rdm ignoring the nin's hp is inexcusable, and the blm ignoring it as well makes me sad. Any time someone with cure has full/near full mana and the tank dies it isnt right. Just like any time the tank dies without the other melee at least trying to pull hate to give the healer a bit more time it makes me sad. Theres been plenty of times I've taken hate off the pld or nin who was about to eat it, as far as taking a sickle slash to the face just to keep us all alive. I've died doing this too :P but buying the tank a bit of time can save a full wipe.

THF needs to learn to be FAST and I mean FAST on the sata especially on raptors. Raptors are MEAN and I remember plenty of times as a drk puller I'd died/been red by the time i got back to camp. They hit too hard. Hate em. grr.

I can't even say anything about the rdm who melees in front of a cone aoe mob -_-; Duh.
 
This is what I don't get: people who are so uptight about what their job is 'supposed' to do that they will let party members die or the full party wipe rather than stretch out a little. IE--cure-capable people who will not throw out a cure a PT member's way even when they're about to bite it; voke-capable people who won't take a couple of hits to spare a mage or a tank while they recast blink or get a cure off. Geez.

/comfort Sabia

Special stabby hatred to the RDM standing in front of the AoE. :roll:
 
Sort of not on topic here, but what I really hate the most and have been seeing it all too commonly these days are blms who just dont stun. Taking valley of sorrows for example with a NIN tank. The mobs there love to attack fast and hard as you know and sometimes for a NIN having NI shadows all go down before you get the chance to cast Ichi you run into a struggle. Especially if are pretty bad at timing the cast before getting hit. So, this poor NIN is getting constantly beat on trying to cast Ichi over and over and only to see it getting interrupted while you have this BLM going omgz lets me cast stone III. I mean stone III on a raptor good game there bud. A simple Stun goes a long way for pt's even with nins who just need that little break inbetween to get Ichi up without any further problems. So I say this stop over nuking you turdburglers and try to assist more with the Stuns. You have the spell freaking use it.
 
didn't bother to read the post.. my response is to the title.
All i can say is awesome ninja tank or not i'm a black mage and i'm not fuckin main healing nobody. support? sure! low MP? i got you covered! in jeuno you say Dark, i'm picking up another melee, you're gonna main heal OK? <^> - .- <^>

How can some people think it's OK? honestly.
 
yep, that setup sounds pretty good to me actualy, if you had a better RDM and THF (difference between /NIN and /WAR sub on THF is minimal (ose dual wield, gain double attack, attack bonus@30, which stacks with triple, different debate though) then you would have been chaining like crazy out there.


ANd if you have a great NIN with SATA landed on them at the beginning, spam the ele wheel (difference between an Elusive Earring and a Moldavite here, personally i would prefer a moldavite) then doing SATA WS onto the SAM wouldnt even phase em, as long as they dont have Enmity+ AF :/

Oh well, people can't think of everything lol, good job Sabs, you did your part perfectly
 
Sabia said:
...
Sorry about the long rant...just really made me feel shitty and useless that night when there was nothing I could do to keep up.
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good party on paper, results were totally the fault of the blm, rdm and thf. so don't fault yourself, a whm wouldn't have done much better. try spamming cure4 and it would have been you dead instead of the nin.
btw, who were those doofuses? we need names! :twisted:
 
Hazell: Hm, never thought about using Stun to help a NIN tank. However, there's one slight problem with that. See, NIN tanks are good at avoiding damage, but usually pretty bad at getting and keeping hate. Stun can help them recast shadows, but it has a huge hate boost tacked on (exact same as Flash - the two spells are mirrors). So, casting Stun might not be that good for hate reasons. Same thing with Provoking a mob off a NIN tank so he can get shadows back up - sure, now the NIN will be taking less damage, but the mob's PO'ed at me and I'll wind up taking a lot of damage and possibly dying if the NIN can't get hate back fast. Even if I don't die, the mages will be spending a lot of MP (and getting a lot of hate) by curing me. But, I do agree that if the tank desperately needs help, you should 'voke if you can.

Black, this wasn't about BLMs main healing, this was about SMNs main healing. They can actually do it, as their main job's functions (using BPs to buff party members and/or deal damage) don't take much time, so they can spend time tossing out cures. Plus they have a much larger MP pool and auto-refresh.

Anyway, like I said before SMN is a difficult job, since the other mages need to help them cure a bit and can't leave the curing to only the SMN.
 
I too, never would've thought to use stun in any situation outside stopping an enemy spell or lengthy special attack (gob bombs). Anyway, I can't see why blms wouldn't be wanting to toss out more cures (so long as the pt doesn't treat you like a summoner and tell you not to use your main job, as they love to do). I even bought a light staff for my blm. The way I see it, is that I have a huge list of spells, and I want to use them all. I prefer whm to rdm as a sub for blm because 1/2 of the rdm spells are redundant. As a mage I'm all about having as many spells as I can. Having them and not using them is an exercise in stupidity. So yeah, it's always good to backup heal. Toss a curaga after a battle. If you've taken whm to 37, and for some reason you didnt' like it, would you rather that you did all that work for nothing, or would you prefer that the labor you did on the side when you couldn't blow stuff up is put to enough good use so that you don't feel you wasted weeks of your life? While I happenned to like being a whm, I still cringe at the idea of letting half of my character go to waste.
 
Sethala said:
Hazell: Hm, never thought about using Stun to help a NIN tank. However, there's one slight problem with that. See, NIN tanks are good at avoiding damage, but usually pretty bad at getting and keeping hate. Stun can help them recast shadows, but it has a huge hate boost tacked on (exact same as Flash - the two spells are mirrors). So, casting Stun might not be that good for hate reasons. Same thing with Provoking a mob off a NIN tank so he can get shadows back up - sure, now the NIN will be taking less damage, but the mob's PO'ed at me and I'll wind up taking a lot of damage and possibly dying if the NIN can't get hate back fast. Even if I don't die, the mages will be spending a lot of MP (and getting a lot of hate) by curing me. But, I do agree that if the tank desperately needs help, you should 'voke if you can.
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it's not much hate. drks should even stun if they can to help nin recast. blm and whm have so much -emn gear that as long as you're stunning or flashing mid/end of the fight, shouldn't be a problem with hate. worse that can happen, you get hit once, mob runs back to tank, drain it all back.
 
Stun doesnt cause nearly as much hate as flash O.o; While I haven't leveled pld, I have leveled drk and I know the very very fine line of where I am on the aggro list quite well. Stun isn't gonna turn the mob unless the tank is either already dead or AFK. XD

If the mob is not a stunnable type, (Gobs, casters) and i'm not using it, tossing a stun for the nin tank is something that the drk should do, as well as the blm like hazell said. However blizzaga 3 takes precedence over utsusemi recast :P so if i need to have it ready, no. On raptors? God yes, throw it when your tank (PLD, NIN, WAR w/e!) is hurting, its another way to keep your tank alive. If the healer was 1/2way through a cure that would save his life, and you stunned so the mob didnt finish him off letting that cure land, you are a good party member ^^d

Now, as I've said before, every stun is -12 tp for the drk :P so if hes helping do that dont bitch at him for being late to the skillchain.
 
Kat said:
Sorry to hear you had such time it Sabs. Raptors and Perytons are tough mobs, but fun as hell when in a good party. That Red Mage shouldn't have been meleeing. Bottom line.
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never ending issue of melee RDM in exp pt... /sigh... stop stop hit it hit it...
 
I've been leveling BLM through the jungle for the past few days, and I've been helping out with the cures. Every time a mandy uses Leaf Dagger, I've already got Poisona cued up and ready to go. I was happy as hell to reach 32 so I could toss out a Curaga at the end of the fights.

It's difficult to keep me from doing it, since my main is WHM and that's just what I do. It's strange not being the main healer, so I've been helping them. I've had two parties with SMN as the main healer, and it went okay.
 
As a side note, if I were to try meleeing in an EXP party these days you could forget all about AoEs or anything else - I'd likely die of embarassment.
 
When I'm in an exp party, I use flash a lot. It's not like I really need the mp for curing, an it helps them keep some shadows up. Flashing is especially useful when they're recasting Utsusemi: Ichi, so that they don't get interrupted. It seems like if the mob so much as looks at them funny, they get interrupted, so they need all the help they can get.

Also, nin's can hold hate very well if there's a thf around, or if they use ninjitsu to debuff/attack rather than just cast utsusemi and provoke.
 
i use stun after ichi is interupted once or twice or if anyone at all in the party is taking hits they shouldn't (IE the whm or another black mage) but that means i have to lay off the damage for 10-15 seconds...
 
Ok, for starters. All of you people, especially you RDMs who insult those RDM who do melee, please reconsider your stance after reading this. Melee RDM take a lot more work that people might be able to, or willing to put into, but for those of us who worked hard at learning to proper way, ease up!

To make this simple, no, a RDM should not melee, just because they can use a sword.

To be able to melee as a RDM you have to be able to play the mage side or a RDM to begin with. That means that you can keep your party refreshed, you know when to dispel the mob, you use other enfeebling/enhnacing spells appropriately, as well as Magic Bursting. RDM should expect to assist in healing, hopefully allowing other jobs to focus on it. Food and equipment is also an important factor, RDM aren't the top in any area they're effective in, so if you expect to main heal plan on food that is INT and MND+ or atleast MND plus, and if you expect to use Black Magics then focus on INT+ (sweet rice is a decent balance for a RDM). Finnally, learn to time your spells. You should have a general idea of when your spells are ready, and when they're going to need to be reactivated and be able to watch for that.
I will also say that RDM main healing is a bad choice if they have to keep more than 2-3 people (himself included), unless you don't mind getting refreshed after the RDM has to stop trying to recover. I typically won't do it, unless it's no more than 3 people to refresh, or there is another RDM or even a BRD. I will, however take it up as best I can when the situation demands it.

That being said, the next thing you need to know is how to guage your party. You need to know all the jobs in the party, what they SHOULD be able to do, and plan on a reasonable level, just cause you played with a WHM who could heal so well you never had to, that every WHM can do that. Sometimes that's simply a well set-up party and didn't require as much of the WHM.
The way I guage a party starts with the tank. NINs (be it NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN) tend to be easier (assuming they can keep shadows up with 1-2 miscasts at most every so often Utsusemi's). PLDs require a somewhat stronger set up, but it's certainly not hard to melee as a RDM with a PLD.
next, and the most important factor. What other mages are there. if both a WHM and BLM are in the pt, you're well set. Either of those job replaced while can still make a good party, RDM should take more caution when deciding to melee.
Finnaly, the DD. Typically this isn't much of a factor, cause RDM won't change much on the scale for this. either DD is weak, strong or just right. if it's too strong or too weak you look at needing a higher healing rate in the party, which means the RDM might be called on. Many DRKs for example are good at finding ways to steal , and when they get hit, they get hit.

This is a lot to consider, and most of the time many RDM can't guage their parties correctly, thus giving a bad name to melee RDM. When I guage a pt, sometimes I test it out. Please tell your party or atleast to party leader that you intend to melee, and if in the first couple battles it doesn't seam to be working out, then stop. step back and be a mage, that's more than 2/3's of your capabilities you might just have to do it (especially if you sub ANY mage based job. I find BLM to be best for melee RDM during XP parties. DRK might be possible, but you limit your spell casting when you do, so if you need it, it's not there, and the melee portion prolly won't make up for it, unless the other mages in your pt are awsome at what they do).

Next if oyu melee, expect to pay. you need the best melee food for your level. for me, I've been using sole sushi since level 59 if/when I melee in a pt. to do less would be a waste of time. With that and an En-spell I average 35+ damage, unless the mobs have awsome def. That includes melee gead (att+, STR+ DEX+ acc.+ etc.). Now, I have three full sets of gear practically(MP gear for start/convert, Magic gear for casting, and melee gear). the only thing I don't change is my pants XD.

Obviously I went the extra mile to melee, and do so responcibly. Those of you who insist on being rude or even insulting in a general fashion to RDM who melee, reconsider and realize that 'yes, a RDM can melee, but they better know what the hell they're doing'. Anyone with any questions can feel free to P.M. me, or post here. I'll try to get back to this post when I can.
 
I'm one of the many who hate meleeing rdm's. Even if you're decked out in gear, you're not going to be doing your job (enfeeb, dispel, refresh) nearly as well as if you were hanging back with the other mages. If rdm can melee, why shouldn't my whm be able to? The answer is simple, I'll suck at it and I'll suck at my job. When I'm in a skillup party, I'm not doing my job as a whm as effectively as if I was back curing, because I'm focusing on hitting the mob, and I'm wearing +acc gear so that I could actually hit.

I have never seen a rdm do anything close to decent damage. Even decked out in damage dealing gear, you'll hit like a pld. Given the amount of spells that need to be cast by a rdm, what with enfeebs, dispel, refresh and maybe a haste or two, you shouldn't have any time to melee.

You won't contribute much to the overall damage, and the time spent meleeing would be better spent hasting the DD so that more real damage could be dealt. Even my monk(and they don't do big hits) hits for 45 a fist on average, which outdamages your rdm, and that's only 1 out of 5 possible hits in a single attck round.

Don't encourage meleeing rdm's, it's something that needs to stop, not pick up speed.
 
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