Mar. 11, 2008 (JST) Update Details

Jugner Forest at H-9
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God damn, I started the update when it was first available. I'm on a 30 MBPS connection 10 miles outside nyc and its still going to take another hour.
 
ok... I don't see how Retaliation is supposed to help war be a better tank. First of all you HAVE to get hit for it to take effect (ie... Retaliate) and second.. well there is no second, it doesn't reduce damage, it just gives you an extra attack... I forgot to check if the hit gives TP but I doubt it. so basically retaliate is only good for the times when your shadows are down to give you an extra hit or two.
 
for my thoughts on this update check my seacom.... other than that goodnight and goodluck with the people still downloading
 
Negorissimo said:
OMG SE is missing detail. Where is the nice pink pattern on the floor surrounding the tele-crystal? Like the one in Teleport-Yhoat, all they had to do was copy/paste... ; ;
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Wouldn't look right in jugner. I'm sure theres a story reason behind it ><
 
Olrox said:
ok... I don't see how Retaliation is supposed to help war be a better tank. First of all you HAVE to get hit for it to take effect (ie... Retaliate) and second.. well there is no second, it doesn't reduce damage, it just gives you an extra attack... I forgot to check if the hit gives TP but I doubt it. so basically retaliate is only good for the times when your shadows are down to give you an extra hit or two.
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Uhhh...Retaliate is an Acc 100% hit you get while being hit. Meaning with Agg and full defensive setup, you'll be taking hits everytime. Proc rate seems to be between 40-50%.

No, it won't help tanking, but the iron ram gear will.
The only downside I saw to it was its only a single proc no matter what weapon, so you can't retaliate occasionally 2-3 times with ridill.

I used GA while testing and did notice that Crits are able to proc...it doesn't say it on the screen, but using GA the dmg difference between a crit and normal is enormous. And yes, you do receive TP for the retaliation.

WAR/SAM and WAR/DRG will receive more benefit than war/nin...but frankly, this is pretty fun. This with added new gear choices will make campaign at least alot more fun. Once I've developed things further I think it could work elsewhere as well, too tough to tell this early though

Edit: Forgot to check if it worked with Stoneskin up, or actual damage will have to take place...I woke up early before work to test since I was 50% at midnight :/
 
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After three fails, a network reset (man, I need a new router...this one's gone overtime for too long lol), and roughly 12 hours of attempting updates...

finished. @.@
 
will be good in Salvage for WAR
 
Has anyone noticed that MHs have drinks now? I targeted my Moogle, tab'd to the door, and ended up tabing Cocoa and other drinks in my MH. Was only there for half a second though.
 
Uzor said:
will be good in Salvage for WAR
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Yea it will. Ares Body jumps up in effectiveness as well because of the VIT Boost and auto-refresh(I really think /pld will be great). That combined with Iron Ram Sallet / Gloves (I just got the sallet, 10k short of Gloves ;;), Suzy's Sune-ate, and probably still Byakko's makes a mean mean setup.

I REALLY want to try Retaliate as war/pld during a MNK hundred fists in dynamis. Hit Sentinel and watch the mob get destroyed...(Note to will/aud, let me try it tonight!)
 
Kind of glad retaliate only works when hit. It can be kept up full time like Defender (3:00 duration with a 3:00 recast) so if it would proc when shadows or Seigan was up at a %50 rate you better believe something would of gotten nerfed on WAR. I only tested it for a few minutes last night cause I had work early this morning but it seemed to proc at a much lower rate than %50 though. Only tested on 2 lesser colibri so maybe I just got really unlucky.
 
Itachiii said:
Kind of glad retaliate only works when hit. It can be kept up full time like Defender (3:00 duration with a 3:00 recast) so if it would proc when shadows or Seigan was up at a %50 rate you better believe something would of gotten nerfed on WAR. I only tested it for a few minutes last night cause I had work early this morning but it seemed to proc at a much lower rate than %50 though. Only tested on 2 lesser colibri so maybe I just got really unlucky.
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I had times where it wouldn't proc for 5 hits, and times where it'd proc 3 times consecutively. I do know that you need to be facing the mob and engaged for it to work (Should be obvious, but just incase its not to anyone).

For Dynamis, when I have hate this will be my setup (WAR/PLD):

Head: Iron Ram Sallet
Body: Adaman Hauberk
Hands: Debating Seiryu's or War Muffs
Legs: Debating Byakko's or M.Legs
Feet: Suzy's

When hate is pulled I'll immediately defender / aggressor / retaliate...and for MNKs I will be attempting to WS big early so I can sentinel tank them. Should be fun, I'll let you know results tomorrow

Edit #2: Debating the food to eat as well...I'd like to use Subs...but I'll bring taco's with as well for survivability factor.
 
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jamal said:
Uhhh...Retaliate is an Acc 100% hit you get while being hit. Meaning with Agg and full defensive setup, you'll be taking hits everytime. Proc rate seems to be between 40-50%.

No, it won't help tanking, but the iron ram gear will.
The only downside I saw to it was its only a single proc no matter what weapon, so you can't retaliate occasionally 2-3 times with ridill.

I used GA while testing and did notice that Crits are able to proc...it doesn't say it on the screen, but using GA the dmg difference between a crit and normal is enormous. And yes, you do receive TP for the retaliation.

WAR/SAM and WAR/DRG will receive more benefit than war/nin...but frankly, this is pretty fun. This with added new gear choices will make campaign at least alot more fun. Once I've developed things further I think it could work elsewhere as well, too tough to tell this early though

Edit: Forgot to check if it worked with Stoneskin up, or actual damage will have to take place...I woke up early before work to test since I was 50% at midnight :/
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Uhhh. lol it still doesn't make you a better tank, and that was my only point. there is still no reason anyone can say wow with this ability war's can tank, because this JA doesn't change that in the least. But thanks for info on it giving TP, that makes it slightly better... but not for tanking.
 
Actually, quite the opposite. It encourages WAR tanking, although with buffs.

Diamond-hided WAR/PLD or /MNK + Phalanx II + allows for retaliation (again, a 100% accuracy swing) to occur while taking 0 dmg hits. Blue can also provide an AOE cocoon. Recast buffs inbetween mobs, and get a big chunk of tp. You'll have to deal part-time without cocoon, but its manageable.

War's defensive gear is second to only PLD. There's issues, but I'm working on those. The issue with tanking with full defensive gear on WAR was if you do it, its impossible to do enough damage to hold hate. That's no longer the case
 
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Like Jamal said, it won't make wars any better tanks, but they are already pretty good if done right. Now you'll have an incentive of more damage for tanking.
 
Yeah I can see a small incentive, of course properly geared.. another good test would be to see if you can block a hit with shield and retaliate as well with axe/shield combo. I'm still waiting to upgrade my AF body +1 for war XD since its the single best tanking body piece in this game lol, and thats just ridiculous. and idk how much my sea LS would want me to come war/pld or /w.e over pld/war anytime soon. It's highly situational or for way way backup only I can foresee, besides maybe salvage or dreamland dynamis since war will get voke without having to wait for SJ. (but in salvage would have to wait for gear to live)
 
Olrox said:
Yeah I can see a small incentive, of course properly geared.. another good test would be to see if you can block a hit with shield and retaliate as well with axe/shield combo. I'm still waiting to upgrade my AF body +1 for war XD since its the single best tanking body piece in this game lol, and thats just ridiculous. and idk how much my sea LS would want me to come war/pld or /w.e over pld/war anytime soon. It's highly situational or for way way backup only I can foresee, besides maybe salvage or dreamland dynamis since war will get voke without having to wait for SJ. (but in salvage would have to wait for gear to live)
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The point was never to takeover PLD's role as a tank. WAR can already do that on many fronts. WAR/NIN can make a great main assist in Dynamis, just runs into trouble at certain mob types. WAR is still one of the best tanks in any speed kills. In all these situations you're blinking though.

Now, with certain gear changes and a change in the support needed, different combinations of WAR semi-tanking can occur. I've said from day 1, it'll be great for campaign, situational in all other assets. But War won't just magically become a higher HNM tank. They're a versatile job, but even the versatility has its boundaries. I'm not gonna go try to tank everything under the sun with WAR because its a 'tank job', nor will I ignore the positives the job gives now.
To make blanket statements just shows a neglect in understanding the versatility of the job as a whole, and the game as a whole. EVERYTHING is situational. Everything.
 
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